Topic: Wind Riders

[faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)]

So, I recently got two squads of 3 windriders right before 8th was announced, so never glued their guns on (which I am very glad about).

In 8th, I have run them a few times as just Shrunken Cannons, and I love them, especially with Autuarch support.

How do you all run your windriders?

[Partninja]

Currently shelving mine until the codex. Maybe some special craftworld rules will make them better. Mostly due to the FOC change, needing more bodies than your opponent to claim an objective, and no more objective secured bonus.

That said, twin-catapults puts out A LOT of shots now for an aggressive approach (keep in mind they have battle focus). Not bad if that's something you're going for. If you see a lot of T7 they're better off than the other two options.

Shuriken cannons are the new go to though due to the change of moving and firing heavies. Scatter laser is dead IMO unless you really want to Ynarri min squad spam. Even then, cannons are probably better.

[murgel]

Being a "fluff tactician" and not a "rules tactician" has some nice advantages.
I need to think very rarely about how to apply the new rules. Basically I use my bikes the same way I did in the previous editions.
To apply fast moving short to medium range fire-support.
I tend to use a 1-1 ration of Shuriken catapults to Shuriken cannons. And used squads of 4-6 bikes.
Most times I look to play games big enough to have 2 squads of them for this support roll.

[faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)]

Being a "fluff tactician" and not a "rules tactician" has some nice advantages.
I need to think very rarely about how to apply the new rules. Basically I use my bikes the same way I did in the previous editions.
To apply fast moving short to medium range fire-support.
I tend to use a 1-1 ration of Shuriken catapults to Shuriken cannons. And used squads of 4-6 bikes.
Most times I look to play games big enough to have 2 squads of them for this support roll.

How have you find them performing for you? Do you run Autuarch support or farseer? Do you use them to take objectives or just to go pew pew?

[murgel]

How have you find them performing for you? Do you run Autuarch support or farseer? Do you use them to take objectives or just to go pew pew?

I am contend with their performance.
Move, hit, hide was great but they get along ok even with the nerfed save.
They served as a harassing unit on the flanks in my 8th games and performed reasonably well. I also liked that the speed allowing me to concentrate fire at almost any point on the table quickly. I use Warlock support mainly, Autarch some time, Farseer barely.

[Cavalier]

I'm getting along fine with mine equipped with Shuriken Cannons. They still put out a ton of shots and the way they rend seems more valuable than ever before. I have no intentions of dropping them. Cheap, put out a ton of shots at good range and have held up with those extra wounds remarkably well. Especially when I keep them in area terrain.

I only 2x3 with cannons. They aren't the heavy lifters in the army that they were but they are an invaluable tool. Their place in my lists is totally secure

[The Reborn]

I have 9 bikes and a Vyper....I was busy building a host when 7th went out of the damn window.... 

I intend to run them with Shuriken Cannons in 8th as they sound like the best bet all-round.

I also want to get two more Vypers....that increased move sounds very useful combined with their heavy loadouts.

[SeekingOne]

I also want to get two more Vypers....that increased move sounds very useful combined with their heavy loadouts.

Don't do this 88 points for a light vehicle with just 2 shuricannons is way too much, seeing that unlike its DE and Harlie counterparts it doesn't have an Inv save.

[magenb]

The WindRider weapons are all super easy to magnetise, so yeah happy I did

I don't field them any more though.
AP 0 that is not done is swarms is pointless, so Scatlasers are out.

Shuriken Cannons are nice and the optimal option, but they are being fired at a range where a lot of AP-1/-2 exists, even in cover, it means they are brittle, or at least have been for me. Might be good against bolter fire, but don't field them against Necrons lol.

Twin Cats, just puts them in Rapid fire range.

[Lord of Winter and War]

I've used my Scatbikes in a few games still. They still do what they did before. Tons of S6 shots for very little points. I've had pretty good success with them thinning out infantry and plinking wounds of vehicles. I've run two three man squads, and for around 100pts each, they are still a steal.

The heavy penalty is not much of an issue, as the range is so long I hardly need to move them anyway, and are still a fantastic late-game objective grabber.

[SeekingOne]

Magenb has nailed it once again My experience with Windriders is pretty much the same.

IF, after all the nerfs and cost increase, GW at least has left them as Troops - there would've been a reason to field them to fill up Troops slots in the Batallion. But as Fast Attack, there's simply no reason to have them in your army. They are still relatively fast, that's true, but they don't have numbers to be effective objective grabbers, and they are too expensive to act as sacrificial units (which they have to be if they're sent to grab a marker from under the enemy's nose). In addition to that, their damage output for points is poor and so is their durability for points.

With their current rules and stats, they would've been still good at their old 7th edition point cost. At their current cost, they could've been still good if they retained their 3+ save OR at least if they were Troops. They way they are, they're kind of dead in the water.

They still do what they did before. Tons of S6 shots for very little points.

Yeah, but having tons of S6 shots is not even half as good as it was before.

I've had pretty good success with them thinning out infantry and plinking wounds of vehicles. I've run two three man squads, and for around 100pts each, they are still a steal.

For almost the same points, you can field 10 Guardians in a Wave Serpent with 3 shuricannons, and that unit combination will be better at almost everything

[Lord of Winter and War]

I'd not argue that the guardians are better or worse, Just depends on what your army needs.

I've used them well as fire support for my Harlequins, as for 210pts I get 24 S6 shots at long range. For the price, I can't argue with that. Your example of Guardians in a wave serpent wouldn't help me, as they don't fulfil the same role, or put out the firepower I need.

Perhaps for you, you need more bodies on the ground, or close ranged fire support, in which the guardians would be a better spend.

All depends on what you need to balance out the army.

[Cavalier]

I'm with you KS. Its all about the needs of your army. The range, speed, mobility, footprint, ability to get cover etc are all important nuances to factor in when it comes to jetbikes.

Diversifying your style of attack is important too. For my army specifically which has tons of assault units, having units hanging back out of the main thrust of my attack is important. It keeps my army from being predicatable. Which is why I love the Warp Hunter for example... you can get similar offensive output... but the way it delivers that offense is unique and forces my opponent to make more decisions... which can lead to mistakes, which Eldar still excel at capitalizing on.

[SeekingOne]

I'd not argue that the guardians are better or worse, Just depends on what your army needs.

With all due respect, I have to totally disagree here.

Your statement implies that guardians and windriders are both equally good, just at different things - and so you can pick whichever of the two provides what you actually need, with equal success. However, my argument is that while guardians and windriders do indeed do different things, guardians are good at their thing but windriders are not really good at theirs.

I've used them well as fire support for my Harlequins, as for 210pts I get 24 S6 shots at long range. For the price, I can't argue with that. Your example of Guardians in a wave serpent wouldn't help me, as they don't fulfil the same role, or put out the firepower I need.

Speaking of fire support, the problem is that the damage output of 6 windriders with scatter lasers is relatively poor for their cost, unless they are firing at a pure horde unit with T3 and 5+ save (EDIT: Altogether, they inflict on average 3-4 wounds on MEQ, and barely 1-2 wounds on a vehicle, which I consider a very poor output for a 200+ pts of dedicated fire support).

Besides, Harlequins are now a very strong and cost-efficient force, and so - just as it was with Eldar in 7th - when playing Harlequins you can afford spending some 200 points on sub-par units without noticeably handicapping yourself.

[Lord of Winter and War]

The cost is pretty low. I'm not expecting miracles for 100pts. But, their role is pretty much the same as in 7th. Thin down squads, take off wounds and models here and there.

If there is something else which can put out the same amount of firepower at 36", let me know, but nothing else in the index has the same shots per point.

[Tweedz]

Against pure hordes (things with saves of 5 or 6, low toughness, and only 1 wound), scat bikes are certainly the most cost effective CWE thing I can see. But once you get into toughnesses above 5 or saves better than 5 or more than one wound... in any of those scenarios, other ranged options like the nightspinner and crimsonhunter start doing more damage per point than the bikes (and there are plenty of better options if you are willing to get closer than 36 inches). On top of that, both of those options are tougher, with the spinner having the potential to not even take return fire if it stays behind LoS blocking terrain.

For me bikes are just not worth it unless i really need to stay at range and only have 100 points to spare. If I can get close, guardians are far superior at dealing with hordes right now.

[Adrastos]

I, Unfortunately, don't see a lot of point in them either. at just 12 shots for 90 points with dual cats they really aren't breaking any backs. I know you're paying for mobility but I have that in spades and if they aren't troops they aren't worth it when I have so many great fast attack options.

I am currently converting the old windrider models that I do have into a Warlock, Farseer and Autarch. Unfortunately that leaves me with 3 and nothing to do with them.

I already have a unit of 9 spears, which I love this edition and will be in every list (my favorite aspect! at last is highly useful!)

[SeekingOne]

If there is something else which can put the same amount of firepower at 36", let me know, but nothing else in the index has the same shots per point.

In addition to what Tweedz and Adrastos said, for the same cost you get 2x3 Dark Reapers which have longer range, can move and fire with no penalty, are equally good against anything with good saves and just slightly worse against medium saves - but can double-up as fantastic monster/vehicle killers.
The other equally priced option (probably even better one) is a Hemlock, which has effectively unlimited range and is fantastic at just what you said - thinning out infantry and plinking wounds off vehicles - due to the combination of Smite and 2D3 autohits with high strength, high AP and 2 points of damage per wound.

In the context of Harlequins army both options are also better than windriders because they can deal with enemy flyers efficiently - something that harlequins themselves have problems with.

[Irisado]

This topic is deviating too far from the original question.  The topic is about how to use Windriders and how to arm them, not whether there are better options, so let's get back on topic please .