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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Chapter Approved
« on: November 18, 2017, 05:20:59 PM »
The Chapter Approved supplement is available for preorder next week. It contains..... VDR again which is something we all remember warmly from prior editions and without any bilious notions or murderous thoughts what so ever. More spoilers during the week.

Get Ready for Chapter Approved: Designing your own Land Raiders - Warhammer
 
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Offline Irisado

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Re: Chapter Approved
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2017, 05:29:01 PM »
What on earth has possessed GW to bring this idea back?  It makes the game so much more complicated than it needs to be and causes the same old problem of what happens when some players use Chapter Approved and others do not.  It's an unnecessary muddying of the waters in my opinion.
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Offline laucian_meliamne

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Re: Chapter Approved
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2017, 07:14:37 PM »
I think the difference here may be that Chapter Approved is being pitched as an official expansion to the rules, not as an optional extra. Once it's released, it will be part of the official rules. A player choosing not to use Chapter Approved rules is basically the same as a player choosing not to use the new Codex: Space Marines and using the rules from Index Imperium Vol I; not wrong per se, just behind the times.

That said, VDR coming back is... questionable at best. It was unbalanced AF previously, and I'm very concerned about what kind of abuse these rules will be open to.

Offline Partninja

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Re: Chapter Approved
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2017, 08:11:40 PM »
Yeah I don't know about this...seems very abusive unless they adjust points costs for things like twin assault cannons.

Man, wonder what we could put on an Eldar falcon...

Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Chapter Approved
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2017, 09:24:08 PM »
Well, the VDR will only be for Landraiders, and it just seems to be based on swapping out the 5 hardpoints. (two on each side and the heavy bolter area). I doubt Match Play will support it. Does look like a bit of fun. The picture of the Space Wolves landraider with a hellfrost gun, instead of a heavy bolter is really neat.

I'm more looking forward to relics and strategems for the armies without Codex's yet. I'm buying this book, just to see what my Harlequins get.
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Offline Aoitora

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Re: Chapter Approved
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2017, 10:14:23 PM »
I'm mostly looking forward to see what theyre doing with Apoc in this Chapter Approved. It'll probably just be more/different stratagems.

I also would have liked to have seen Orks getting VDR over it being LRs. I was actually talking to my ork playing friend back when 8th was being released and I was saying it'd be nice for him to be able to customise his battlewagons, pretty much identical to how theyre advertising these LR VDR.

Offline Irisado

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Re: Chapter Approved
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2017, 05:10:22 AM »
I think the difference here may be that Chapter Approved is being pitched as an official expansion to the rules, not as an optional extra. Once it's released, it will be part of the official rules. A player choosing not to use Chapter Approved rules is basically the same as a player choosing not to use the new Codex: Space Marines and using the rules from Index Imperium Vol I; not wrong per se, just behind the times.

I concur that it may well be an expansion.  The trouble with this is that it still results in rules being spread across multiple different sources, which takes us straight back to previous editions, such as second and third.  GW stated many years ago that they were no longer going to publish rules in different places because it made it too difficult to find and to keep track of all the rules.  It seems that the philosophy behind the rules is going full circle again.  Crucially, this step undermines the idea, promoted by GW, that eighth edition 40K is supposed to be easier and simpler to play, which is the main reason why I'm not encouraged by this announcement.

Quote
That said, VDR coming back is... questionable at best. It was unbalanced AF previously, and I'm very concerned about what kind of abuse these rules will be open to.

I completely agree.  It's also unlikely to stop with Land Raiders.
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Offline Blazinghand

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Re: Chapter Approved
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2017, 06:27:36 AM »
From the wording it sounds like it's only starting with Land Raiders. My hope is this won't be allowed in Matched Play, to limit the amount of abuse.
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Chapter Approved
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2017, 02:22:13 PM »
The article does say that the rules could be applied to different vehicles so they must be somewhat generic.

Apoc is back because somehow we were missing it?
Get Ready for Chapter Approved: Apocalypse Returns - Warhammer Community
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Offline Aurics Pride

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Re: Chapter Approved
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2017, 04:05:32 PM »
I assume that they are just testing the water with the Land Raider rules and then potentially bring in other options if it works. The previous VDR rules were absolutely ridiculous though, there were too many options and it led to a lot of very questionable models!
@Irisado- I definitely understand the annoyance with chapter approved but in my opinion Games Workshop made it clear that 8th edition was almost going to be a "Living Rulebook" with constant updates to keep balance. Whilst everyone seems to gush over 8th edition there is definitely some pretty big bugs with it that need ironing out and I am perfectly happy to buy a £20ish book every year if there are going to get some continuity and balance in the game. A yearly update is a far cry from the 7th edition need for multiple books. To use the Corsair/Ynarri army that I took to a tournament I had to take with me:
Imperial Armour- Doom of Mymeara (Huge, heavy book!)
Gathering Storm
Craftworlds Codex
Dark Eldar Codex
Rulebook

Thankfully I didn't have any Harlequins in the force!
At least you should be able to stick with a single codex and then just a rulebook/update.
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Chapter Approved
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2017, 04:25:39 PM »
I liked the old Chapter Approved books which were often reprints of White Dwarf articles and I like the idea of resurrecting them for this edition. VDR I'm really iffy on from past experience. If only certain vehicles are modular then that's a step up from the prior build your own model that was riddled with abuse.
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Offline magenb

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Re: Chapter Approved
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2017, 06:04:32 PM »
Apoc is back because somehow we were missing it?
Get Ready for Chapter Approved: Apocalypse Returns - Warhammer Community

In previous editions there were things that were difficult to remove in normal games, so battles going to the 5th turn were common. Apoc in those editions would see stuff flying off the table. now with 8th stuff already fies off the table in nomrmal games, so Apoc would be insane.

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Chapter Approved
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2017, 06:22:46 PM »
You're forgetting the sheer number of rerolls for basically everything. An 8th version of Apoc would essentially be a roll-a-thon of biblical proportions.
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Offline Calamity

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Re: Chapter Approved
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2017, 06:55:04 PM »
Apocalypse is coming back?  ???

Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Chapter Approved
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2017, 08:18:51 PM »
Yeah. 8th is nowhere near as bloated as 7th was. Also, 7th was full of re-rolls as well.

I think overall, there are way less instances of things granting full re-rolls in 8th.

Just happens, that there are a few characters which grant full re-rolls, which everyone uses.

I've not played an apocalypse game since 5th edition. 40k is basically apocalypse already.

I am hearing rumours though, that units with a power level greater than 30 or 31 will only be usable in apocalypse, which would be a phenomenal change to the game.

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Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Chapter Approved
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2017, 10:04:24 PM »
Quote
As well as providing an annual update to matched play, this book is packed with a wealth of content for every kind of gamer, including a guide to designing your own Land Raiders for open play...

Coming Soon: New Battleforces for Christmas, Chapter Approved and a new varnish

So design your own is for Open Play only..... Thank goodness
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Offline Irisado

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Re: Chapter Approved
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2017, 08:49:36 AM »
@Irisado- I definitely understand the annoyance with chapter approved but in my opinion Games Workshop made it clear that 8th edition was almost going to be a "Living Rulebook" with constant updates to keep balance.

I have no issue at all with rules evolution or a 'living rulebook', providing that the rules remain free and accessible to as many people as people.  If the pattern is going to become one of updating the rules on a regular basis and charging money for every single revision and/or expansion of the rules, it's problematic in my opinion.  Getting back to the main point though, the 'living rulebook' concept would be more effective if it were all contained within a single 'book'.  Instead of making changes via Chapter Approved, why not just update the main rules online?  That way everyone is guaranteed to be on the same page, so to speak, and you avoid ending up with the problems of people playing each other with different sets of rules and expansions, which is one of the difficulties that I ended up facing way back in second edition.

Note, by the way, that I do agree with all of you posting in this topic that it's all a vast improvement on seventh edition.  I would just like it to be even better than it actually is and for GW to stick to the simplified and streamlined approach that it was advocating when the edition first came out.
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Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Chapter Approved
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2017, 10:31:47 AM »
The core rules are not going to change. Any alterations to the core rules, will be in chapter approved. And, it's mainly random extra stuff and matched play.

Folks, if they want, can easily play with the core rules and their codex books and ignore chapter approved.

Same with AoS. Yearly generals handbooks with bonus rules (mostly geared to matched play), which is not needed if you Just want to play casually.

I think chapter approved will be a good yearly supplement to keep the game fresh each year, especially as the core rules won't be changing.
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Chapter Approved
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2017, 12:08:37 PM »
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Re: Chapter Approved
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2017, 05:51:52 PM »
That said, VDR coming back is... questionable at best. It was unbalanced AF previously, and I'm very concerned about what kind of abuse these rules will be open to.

I remember in the old VDR you could make eldar vehicles with negative points cost!

Not that you would actually make one as it would be like a hedgehog of useless singlebarreled scatter lasers (and a couple of great guns!).
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