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Author Topic: seer council spam  (Read 3878 times)

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Offline Rx8Speed

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seer council spam
« on: April 28, 2015, 08:37:36 PM »
Anyone think this might become a thing? 3 min sized seer councils with jetbikes and singing spears come to 1215. for 1850 point games that leaves some room to fill out a small cad with a warlock general (love how they are real hqs now) with as many scatter bikes as you can fit into 1500, 1850 and 2000 point lists as possible. maybe a wraithknight thrown in there. you get 28 dice per psychic phase before the d6 roll and in your turn you harness on a 3+! mass psyhic shrieks+ horrify and apoc eldritch storms with lots of dice left over to turn mostnof your army invisible. then being pure jetbike anything not invisible already should be able to find some LOS blocking cover or cast conceal or protect on themselves and for a 2+ armor or jink

Also all the singing spears gives you some nice anti armor. and lets be serious you have loads of guide to twin linm those spears too. 4 dice per pychic power and you can cast 7 per turn. and you'll probably only use 4 for the apoc blasts and 2-3 for everything else.

Offline magenb

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Re: seer council spam
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2015, 11:00:25 PM »
how are you going to deal with flyers.

Offline Nythrulas

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Re: seer council spam
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2015, 02:59:54 AM »
Guided Singing Spears deal with flyers... who weren't hurting the Fortuned, Invisible Seer Councils in the first place.

Believe me, you're not the only one who's thought of it.  I've played one minimum council on foot, and it seems dirty as heck... multiple on jetbikes is about as dirty a thing as I can conceive of in this game.

Offline Rx8Speed

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Re: seer council spam
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2015, 06:37:54 PM »
Yeah bought my first farseer skyrunner today. Really excited to get him built and painted up, then I can go get a second one! Really looking forward to showing the 40k world the true power of eldar mind

Offline haunt

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Re: seer council spam
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2015, 11:09:52 PM »
Better to have Warlocks on Jetbike x4, so you can get the next power. It's better and plus having 1 more body doesn't hurt it.
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Offline Wonko the Sane

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Re: seer council spam
« Reply #5 on: May 3, 2015, 05:06:07 PM »
The seer council has a minimum of 5 for the conclave.
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Offline mikesusername

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Re: seer council spam
« Reply #6 on: May 5, 2015, 09:18:32 AM »
Seer council has been an insane option since 3rd edition.  each edition it's been available, but i can assume only for lack of models and or some sence of human decency i haven't seen anyone run it.  Its interesting though because our new codex basically screams at us to take one.

Offline Partninja

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Re: seer council spam
« Reply #7 on: May 5, 2015, 09:38:37 AM »
Seer council has been an insane option since 3rd edition.  each edition it's been available, but i can assume only for lack of models and or some sence of human decency i haven't seen anyone run it.  Its interesting though because our new codex basically screams at us to take one.

It screams to take one only because GW wants to pay ~$30USD a pop per model. Seer councils are good, not great. Random powers can make it lack luster with bad rolls when picking powers. After the powers, they're not all that great in combat or shooting for their points cost. Points is the main reason you don't see them used a lot. They're a lot of points without much room for anything else afterwards.

The last time a council was really good was 4th or 5th edition when you could still assault from a Wave Serpent that didn't move. It was common to take 10 Warlocks, Yriel (who ignores armor saves completely) and Eldrad (who also ignored armor saves and got all of the Eldar powers). You could pick all of your powers, and ignore quite a few armor saves with rerollable invul saves. Councils today are quite a bit toned down.

Offline Ciliano

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Re: seer council spam
« Reply #8 on: May 5, 2015, 10:20:54 AM »
Which honestly feels much better than in previous editions, when a Warlock costed merely x points (although with no Witchblade or power) or x points (again without power). This could lead to the inclusion of some Warlocks as ablative wounds which I practised myself (shame on me!) but didn't make sense.

Points values removed for copyright reasons.  GW doesn't allow us to post old or up-to-date points values - Iris.
« Last Edit: May 5, 2015, 11:53:21 AM by Irisado »

Offline Nythrulas

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Re: seer council spam
« Reply #9 on: May 5, 2015, 11:08:52 AM »
Are you guys kidding me?  The Seer Council is the best it's ever been.  I've played Ulthwe since 3rd, and I've always loved the council, but this edition, they are crazy.  I'm not even running them on bikes...

Between Conceal, Fortune and Inbisibility, they are practically invincible.  With all Singing Spears, no tank can get within 20" of them and expect to live (and with Guide, neither can flyers).  Eldritch Storm can simply delete huge mobs of Boyz, Gaunts, Gaurdsmen, Marines... and Psychic Shriek can do wonders when stacked with Horrify (AND Terrify... plus in my case, a Shadowseer with the Mask of Secrets, and a Hemlock).  With one attack, they aren't great in combat, but Fleshbane is a threat, and they Just. Don't. Die.  The number of times I've been able to send a Seer Council against literally any foe are legion.  Not to mention, they can tie up the opponent's army, and allow the rest of my army to function... or they focus on everything else, while the Council destroys everything on its own, because it has every ability to do that.  I love my Seer Council.

Now that putting them on bikes is more feasible with the new models... I fear there's nothing they can't do.  Protect on a jetbike, with Fortune and all the rest will make them even more invincible than they started, not to mention the insane mobility.  Psychic ninja jedi elves on speeder bikes!

Offline Zandramaas

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Re: seer council spam
« Reply #10 on: May 5, 2015, 11:12:37 AM »
Personally I like the unit and fluff wise it's great. However I wouldn't take it for one reason alone. The wording of psychic powers is that you cannot attempt to manifest the same psychic power from the same unit. So if the two farseers roll on runes of fate and both get fortune, you can only attempt to cast fortune once. This makes the single unit of psyches rather lacklustre compared to just taking two farseers separately. In which case I like to stick them in 20 man guardian blobs.

Offline Partninja

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Re: seer council spam
« Reply #11 on: May 5, 2015, 11:15:22 AM »
Are you guys kidding me?  The Seer Council is the best it's ever been.  I've played Ulthwe since 3rd, and I've always loved the council, but this edition, they are crazy.  I'm not even running them on bikes...

Between Conceal, Fortune and Inbisibility, they are practically invincible.  With all Singing Spears, no tank can get within 20" of them and expect to live (and with Guide, neither can flyers).  Eldritch Storm can simply delete huge mobs of Boyz, Gaunts, Gaurdsmen, Marines... and Psychic Shriek can do wonders when stacked with Horrify (AND Terrify... plus in my case, a Shadowseer with the Mask of Secrets, and a Hemlock).  With one attack, they aren't great in combat, but Fleshbane is a threat, and they Just. Don't. Die.  The number of times I've been able to send a Seer Council against literally any foe are legion.  Not to mention, they can tie up the opponent's army, and allow the rest of my army to function... or they focus on everything else, while the Council destroys everything on its own, because it has every ability to do that.  I love my Seer Council.

Now that putting them on bikes is more feasible with the new models... I fear there's nothing they can't do.  Protect on a jetbike, with Fortune and all the rest will make them even more invincible than they started, not to mention the insane mobility.  Psychic ninja jedi elves on speeder bikes!

But what happens when you don't get those clutch powers you require? What happens when they pass all of their armor saves from those witchblades? Seer council is not that potent in my opinion. They can be, but it's not reliable, and a lot of points.

Offline Rx8Speed

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Re: seer council spam
« Reply #12 on: May 5, 2015, 12:29:31 PM »
With 2 seer council worth of psykers and no bad spells in runes of fate and a guarantee of at least psychic shriek, conceal and guide for each unit you can hardly go wrong. I believe in putting them in a support/ defensive roll for my armies and keeping them out of sight of the enemy for the most part (easy to do with jet bikes). The offensive spells they get is just a bonus. I also intend on using the jetseer council to hunt armor with their singing spears.

Offline Nythrulas

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Re: seer council spam
« Reply #13 on: May 5, 2015, 12:55:42 PM »
@Zandramaas

This is a debate that is over the confusion of the term "unit" and "psyker unit."  A "psyker unit" is a unit with the Psyker, Psychic Pilot or Brotherhood of Psykers rules. A seer council of two Farseers and one Warlock Conclave is one "unit," but it remains three distinct "psyker units," two with the "psyker" rule, and one with the "brotherhood of psykers" rule.  No one "psyker unit" can cast the same power twice, but multiple psyker units can, provided they each have the power.  My Warlock Conclave can't cast Destructor twice, but if both Farseers have Fortune, they can each cast it, as they are not the same "psyker unit."

@Partninja

In my set up, I add another Farseer from a CAD (who doesn't benefit from the formation 3+) to run pure telepathy while the two council farseers rune pure fate.  While it's somewhat unlikely that I'll get both Fortune and Invisibility, I almost always have Fortune, and even when I don't have that, I still have a chance at Invisibility.  In the case they get neither power, it's true the effectiveness of the unit goes waaaay down, and they usually are taken out with priority by any wise opponent.  But that's on foot, and I think jetbikes might mitigate that.  Honestly, I don't care if the guy passes all his witchblade saves, because he's not going to hurt my seers, and all he's doing is tying up his best melee unit with a unit he can't hurt.  Honestly, when a seer council actually kills something in close combat, it's a bonus.  The nice thing is people don't want to send just anything at them, it's usually their hardest unit... and to me it doesn't matter.  Fortune on a 4++ means you're going to have a very hard time doing any damage, no matter who you are.  The Council's main damage output is powers outside of combat, and singing spears. Eldritch Storm, Psychic Shriek and even the maledictions can just be a center of support for the rest of your forces.  Throw Jinx on some Terminators before the Dark Reapers shoot at them, Horrify a Wraithknight before Psychic Shrieking it.  Guide yourselves and throw spears at a Heldrake.  There's really nothing they can't do.

Offline haunt

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Re: seer council spam
« Reply #14 on: May 5, 2015, 07:50:24 PM »
Most folks don't play this other than foot council, I play Jetbike Council which is IMO far superior than foot.

I can't answer for most folks or even a few, but having a council on foot or jetbikes is a point sink. They're the best tar pit unit back in the days for big games. Reliable? Back then, I'd say yes, yet comparing it to the now my guess is as good as everyone. I won't discount it as a good unit, but they're a pale shadow to their competitiveness in the old days and ways.

I'm ready either way. Having converted a few jetbikes for council purposes and I have tons on foot too.
This is where Death rejoices, as he teaches the living.

Hoc est ubi mors gaudet, quod ipse docet vivis.

Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat

 


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