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Author Topic: Imbalance in BFG  (Read 3135 times)

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Offline Crawfskeezen

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Imbalance in BFG
« on: April 16, 2013, 03:39:26 PM »
Worry not, I'm not here to beat a dead horse and complain, I'm just looking for some insight.

I've collected BFG for a little while, last year I got my buddy who also plays 40K into it, gave him my chaos cruisers from the starter box and he grabbed some of his own online. All told we now have about 2500 point fleets each.

As many who play BFG are aware, Chaos are rather overpowered due to the combination of their speed, range, access to ordnance (and easy access to assault boats) and lower points costs. Now, I expect nothing of GW to change this or amend it, and that's fine, the game is fun enough even with the imbalance.

My BFG opposition is limited to Chaos and Tau in my group and Tau and Imperials are pretty well matched. I am just curious if it is only Chaos that has gotten the OP or if there are any other "stronger" fleets.

I love this game, I'm just tired of being crushed by Chaos.
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Offline Benis

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Re: Imbalance in BFG
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2013, 04:51:28 PM »
I'm surprised at the mentioned imbalance you describe, personally I mostly find Eldar and perhaps Necrons to be a little out of balance, the others are well-matched and especially the Imperial Navy compared to Chaos, Chaos do have speed, dorsal weapons and easier access to some ordnance but the Imperium have solid front armour, torpedoes, good combination with escorts, nova cannons and a lot of ship-variety. Care to go into some details on what you consider to be so imbalanced?

Offline Locarno

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Re: Imbalance in BFG
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2013, 06:40:14 PM »
What sized/mission games do you play? And can you describe how a normal game goes?

I wholeheartedly support the chaos cruiser fleet as one of the most powerful - yes, all right, necrons and eldar, but for simple, low-cost, shed-loads of macrobatteries, it's hard to beat a line astern of Carnage-class cruisers firing locked-on broadsides.

I'm not sure I'd say overpowered, but the Imperial Navy has its problems engaging them. You have your own tricks up your sleeves, however - principally that bloody great slab of adamantium on the front. 6+ prow armour is nice, and torpedoes are a seriously scary weapon if used en masse. Yes, with a few carriers a chaos fleet can soak up a lot of torpedoes but carriers dedicated to fighter screens aren't flinging dreadclaws in your face, and with every capital ship packing torpedo tubes that's a lot of salvoes to stop.

The theoretical trick with Navy fleets - and it's not an easy one - is the fact that whilst a Carnage carries ridiculous firepower to one side (because a lot of it is tied up in the prow mount), a Lunar puts out acceptible firepower to both sides, and has lances into the bargain - one thing to note is that outside of prow mounts (which you don't want to be using) or heavy cruisers and battleships, Chaos fleets lack access to lances on their normal 'fighting ships'.

Hymirl, if he pops in here, knows his way around the Imperial Navy like the back of his hand - in fact he won the last BFG GT they did with IN ships. He's a big fan of the Lunar-class and the Sword-class, both of which are fantastic value for points.

Necrons and Eldar aren't too bad when taken as a whole - it's more that a fleet is either suited for fighting them or not suited for fighting them scissors-paper-stone fashion and if it's the latter (say a high proportion of lance boats against eldar) you can be screwed whatever you do.

Craftworld eldar are nasty, as is the Taros Commerce Protection fleet (which is just dirty). Tyranids are okay unless you make the mistake of letting people buy biomorphs freely, at which point they become ridiculous.




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Offline Crawfskeezen

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Re: Imbalance in BFG
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2013, 10:38:58 PM »
What sized/mission games do you play? And can you describe how a normal game goes?

We play the standard missions from the book as well as some homegrown ones but nothing crazy. Usually 1000-2000 points. The Chaos Fleet is all Cruisers.

I generally open up with a torpedo salvo and fire what nova cannons I have. I've never really loaded up on nova cannons (2 at most) due to cheese factor, perhaps I'd do well to add another or 2. Generally Chaos guns are in range first (at 45) and can close quickly to bring their higher volume of weapons batteries to bear. Once they're in close my 6+ front armour doesn't mean much and I'm outgunned in a broadside battle most of the time.

Once our lines clash I get beat in a dice game. Volume of fire, in close on the gunnery table. Dreadclaws mangle escorts and I'm hard pressed to get any bombers out because I'm using all my squadrons on fighters to counter enemy ordnance.

Now, I'm no Chester Nimitz or Lord Nelson by any means but I'd like to think I have a good grasp of naval strategy and that I'm not playing poorly.

Care to go into some details on what you consider to be so imbalanced?

1. Access to Dreadclaws (boarding craft) on regular Cruisers. I cannot stress how painful these guys are against escorts, anything but a 1 and the ship is dead.

2. Points cost of Cruisers. Chaos have cheaper Cruisers but more expensive escorts. My opponents Chaos fleet is made of all Cruisers

3. Range of guns. Other than the Slaughter (who is faster and can close more quickly anyway) the main Chaos Cruisers all have some range 45 plus weapons, some of which are lances which care not about the range at which they're firing compared to regular weapons batteries.
 

I have recently added both an Emperor and Retribution Battleship to my fleet and have yet to properly battle test these puppies. The Emperor has fought one battle, suffered no damage and helped break even in the ordnance department (lending enough fighter squadrons to screen my ships from boarding craft and bombers) but didn't do much fighting itself other than finishing off a crippled Cruiser. The Retribution is still in space dock (being built). I am hoping they will lend a bit of sauce to the range department.
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Offline Benis

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Re: Imbalance in BFG
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2013, 09:43:33 AM »
It sounds like you bring quite a balanced fleet list while your opponent brings one that makes most use of Chaos' advantages towards the Imperial Navy.  :-\

Why not load up on some Overlords and Tyrants while letting the Emperor cover most of your ordnance cover to increase your range? Additional Nova cannons in your backfield ought to force the Chaos fleet to close with your vanguard ships too. How does your opponent tend to avoid the massive waves of torpedoes you send his way?

As both an Imperial and Chaos player I tend to find them well-matched, maybe you could switch fleets a bit so that you get a new perspective on both his and your resources?

Offline Crawfskeezen

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Re: Imbalance in BFG
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2013, 02:06:57 PM »
It sounds like you bring quite a balanced fleet list while your opponent brings one that makes most use of Chaos' advantages towards the Imperial Navy.  :-\

I think this is part of the problem. Next game maybe every ship I take has a Nova Cannon, see the look on his face then.  8)

As both an Imperial and Chaos player I tend to find them well-matched, maybe you could switch fleets a bit so that you get a new perspective on both his and your resources?

I'm glad to hear that not everyone sees this imbalance and perhaps that it is subject to my situation. I plan to play with the Chaos to get a better feel. But at the same rate I think I'll just as quickly find myself at the end of 5+ nova cannons. I'm thinking more now it's about opposing "play styles" and what we're looking to get out of the game...

A robust exchange of views over neat scotches may be in order.


Why not load up on some Overlords and Tyrants while letting the Emperor cover most of your ordnance cover to increase your range?

I like this idea to increase range. Also leaving escorts at port is probably a good idea for the next little while.


Are there any good Tactics resources or websites for BFG? I've been looking around but the ones I used to frequent have all been lost in the warp.
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Offline Guildmage Aech

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Re: Imbalance in BFG
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2013, 06:37:47 PM »
Imperials are decent enough, they have advantages too.

Lower speed means smaller turning circle, hence greater manoeuvrability in close quarters - after two fleets pass each other the imperials are good at coming around again.

Armour is great, means gun batteries hitting your nose are no more effective than firing at your flanks (more or less). So closing range on those pesky chaos is easier.

Escorts are great, I like to keep them back. Sending them off ahead just becayse they're faster is sucicide. Let your cruisers go in to swing first and then have the escorts pile in to finish off weakened targets. I like about 5 to a squadron, you spend cruiser money but get more firepower at cost of toughness.

Bring the ordinance, the emperor class is the boy. You don't need to go fast, it's all about speaking softly and carrying a big gun. You have guns, you have ordinance and you have lots of both.

Lastly dealing with list tailoring. If chaos make a special anti-imperial list that sits at max range to lance you to pieces then fine, go for the tailoring option. The dominator class is the cheapest source of nova cannon so rack them up and nuke the little beslubberer from the other side of the table. A few games of that and list tailoring ought to be less fun for him.

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