Topic: Which Exarch is the best in close combat?

[Fenris]

I was merely trying to figure out wether to take a Swooping Hawk Exarch with a powerweapon, a Dire Avengers Exarch with a power weapon and a pistol, or the Warp spider Exarch with powerblades.

This is due to I already have a Scorpion Exarch and a Banshee Exarch in two units, and I want to fill out the formation with a third unit.
The other 2 units (with their Exarches) will still have a place in the ranged formation.

I'm thinking:
-Hawk is the cheapest.
-Spider has heavy aspect armour.
-Avenger has defence tactics.

What are your thoughts?

[Partninja]

"Best" is hard to say - Spider Exarch with dual power blades moves fast, and has a good armor save (so does the rest of his unit). Avenger Exarch as the invul save, but weaker armor (and so does the rest of his unit). I personally wouldn't really consider the Hawk Exarch even though, the power weapon doesn't keep him from taking one of the special ranged weapon options. If an Autarch was in the Hawk squad, I could see the power weapon being included.

[Fenris]

Thanks, surely the best way differs upon the situation, which is great that GW has balanced them.
I think the 4++ is just as good as the 3+ when in CC, due to power weapons, but against shooting the 3+ is better as it can be complimented by cover

In my case I have to balance that if I upgrade the Avenger I will have to take a third Aspect host instead of a Dire Avenger shrine. If I take the hawk, I can afford to upgrade the weapons on either my war walker or the vyper. If I take the spider one I won't have to remodel the Exarch.

I am thinking a small unit of 5-6 models for all of them, so the shimmershield is not really an option, the pistol grants an extra attack instead and is "a meltabomb" points cheaper.

Let's see about some random facts
Assault range (statistical medium, counting charge range as 9" with fleet)
Hawks 27"
Spiders 22"
Avengers 15"
Point costEdit: forgot the exarch upgrade cost, which is now included.
Hawk 36
Avenger 38
Spider 49
Attacks on the charge/when charged
Avenger 4/4
Spider 4/3
Hawk 3/2

The Hawk and the Spider do not need to compromise their ranged weaponry.
Avenger has battle fortune, while spider has Hit&Run, Hawks and Avengers have assault grenades, hawks have AT grenades too.
Hawks and Avengers can take poweraxes or mauls.

Tactics:
The Avengers can move up the field taunting enemies by shooting and then run away, they prefer being assaulted over assaulting, since that grants them extra special rules.

The hawks can toss a grenade to destroy a transport, then assault the occupants, or they can multicharge a transport and it's just disembarked passengers.

Spider can assault something, then jump away in their own phase, and should their move be to short and they get fired upon, they can use flickerjump. They could potentially even use flickerjump against overwatch shots to get closer, but I wouldn't pull this one, unless my opponent was being an @sshat.

[Partninja]

Could I see the list in it's entirety? Depending on what you're doing, I don't think you even really need to bother a melee weapon honestly.

[haunt]

In these statistics, does it add Hammers of Wrath?

[Partninja]

In these statistics, does it add Hammers of Wrath?

Hammer of wrath isn't done with the melee weapon anyway, so it's not as important. Valid point though as it's still extra damage.

[haunt]

Well, why not just use the Warp Spider Exarch and unit, since their ability will help due to covers around the area. Their weapons is particularly nasty too.

[Nythrulas]

I haven't done the math, but my gut tells me Spider Exarch for Powerblades.

As a separate note, I love built in battle fortune for the avenger exarch.  Had him challenge an overlord and just refuse to die.

[Fenris]

@Partninja: Here is the list I'm thinking of with a few modifications:

Eldar craftworld host:
CORE: 510p
Guardians Battlehost
100 Farseer
90 10x Guardians
-EML.
90 10x Guardians
-EML.
90 10x Guardians
-EML.
40 Vyper
60 War walker
- 2x Brightlance.
30 Vaul's wrath support battery
-Shadow weaver.

AUX: 446p
Aspect Host Melee
137 9x Howling Banshees
-Exarch, executioner.
193 9x Striking Scorpions
-Exarch, claw.
116 6x Swooping Hawks
-Exarch, powerweapon.

AUX: 412
Aspect Host Ranged
120 5x Fire Dragons
-Exarch.
187 5x Dark Reapers
-Exarch, EML, 4x Starshot missiles.
105 5x Warp Spiders
-Exarch.

AUX: 435
Falcon Cloudstrike
145 Falcon
-Brightlance, holo-field.
145 Falcon
-Brightlance, holo-field.
145 Falcon
-Brightlance, holo-field.

AUX: 195
Dire Avenger shrine
65 5x Dire Avengers
65 5x Dire Avengers
65 5x Dire Avengers

1998p

Two Dire Avenger units and the Fire Dragons will embark on the falcons.
If I drop the brightlances on the war walker I can afford the powerblades for the spider exarch instead of the power weapon for the hawk exarch.

@Haunt: Hammer of Wrath reduces the charge range, so is more like an option than a bonus. Having the option is of course a bonus though. If you assault MEQ's the HoW is not that gamebreaking, and the (7" for spiders and 12" for Hawks) longer assault range feels more important.

Yes, the Avenger exarch is of course the best option in a challenge, where it is more likely to face power weapons, and is especially good if the diresword is used.

[Partninja]

Double check your points on Reapers - Exarch is a little bit more than normal

So your questions is, which Exarch (spiders, Hawks, or Avengers) should get the melee weapon as part of the melee host?

It's a tough call since they all would really prefer to have a better BS. I would have to put the Warp Spiders in the melee aspect. Hawks haev a tougher time wounding, so getting as many hits as possible is better. Spiders can wound easier at range, and their BS is already ok. Since they have an overall tougher armor save, the Spiders would be better off as part of the melee host. Make sense?

[Grizzlykin]

double check your point for the Avenger shrine as well you need at least one exarch wich does not show up. personnally i would put the hawk in the mele aspect i guess because you could do reckless things like charging with your jump move but from a pure efficienty things, warp spyder should be better as they have more chance surviving and the powerblade of the exarch actually are super strong . from CC perspective that's the best option. From effectiveness perspective i think having the spyder with the BS up is better as thye would make for more hit so potetially more wound while hawk are gould but don't have such a powerfull str weapon...  it depends on what you think you are most likely going to face. If hords list, go for the spyder in the CC unit if facing specialised unit (grey knight and things), go for Hawk in the CC unit, as you are mostlikely going to avoid fighting them in CC with your non cc unit, and having the spyder powered up rather than the hawk should be more efficient.

[Partninja]

double check your point for the Avenger shrine as well you need at least one exarch wich does not show up. personnally i would put the hawk in the mele aspect i guess because you could do reckless things like charging with your jump move but from a pure efficienty things, warp spyder should be better as they have more chance surviving and the powerblade of the exarch actually are super strong . from CC perspective that's the best option. From effectiveness perspective i think having the spyder with the BS up is better as thye would make for more hit so potetially more wound while hawk are gould but don't have such a powerfull str weapon...  it depends on what you think you are most likely going to face. If hords list, go for the spyder in the CC unit if facing specialised unit (grey knight and things), go for Hawk in the CC unit, as you are mostlikely going to avoid fighting them in CC with your non cc unit, and having the spyder powered up rather than the hawk should be more efficient.

The Avenger formation can only have one Exarch, not must have an Exarch

[Grizzlykin]

double check your point for the Avenger shrine as well you need at least one exarch wich does not show up. personnally i would put the hawk in the mele aspect i guess because you could do reckless things like charging with your jump move but from a pure efficienty things, warp spyder should be better as they have more chance surviving and the powerblade of the exarch actually are super strong . from CC perspective that's the best option. From effectiveness perspective i think having the spyder with the BS up is better as thye would make for more hit so potetially more wound while hawk are gould but don't have such a powerfull str weapon...  it depends on what you think you are most likely going to face. If hords list, go for the spyder in the CC unit if facing specialised unit (grey knight and things), go for Hawk in the CC unit, as you are mostlikely going to avoid fighting them in CC with your non cc unit, and having the spyder powered up rather than the hawk should be more efficient.

The Avenger formation can only have one Exarch, not must have an Exarch

ah yeah you are right my bad there ^^

[haunt]

The Reaper Exarch would be better off with a Reaper Launcher w/ SS rather than an EML. With that many shot you're bound to hit a flyer somehow. I like the higher S value than the other. That is just my humble opinion.

[Fenris]

@Partninja: Oops, guess i have one less "meltabomb" to play with.
Concerning hawks/spiders, I guess you mean the spiders are more versatile in what targets they have, due to higher strength ranged weapons.

@Grizzlykin: the exarch is not an requirement, however if I want to take the Avenger Exarch as melee, I would have to buy 2 more Avenger Exarches when I change the Avenger shrine to an aspect host. This probably rules out the Avenger Exarch.

@haunt: I can still fire starshot missiles with the EML, but hitting flyers on 2+ instead of 6+ is still quite a difference. But it's points I could be spending elsewhere that is true.

I'm actually leaning towards taking the spiders as melee, without powerblades. That would allow me to drop the war walkers lances and give the vyper either an EML or maybe a holofield.

[haunt]

Do remember that since the BS will likely be higher, won't you get the effect of a reroll for the exarch?

[Fenris]

Inescapable accuracy, already gives the whole unit a better re-roll than a BS6+ would. It's actually exactly as good as BS10 against some targets.
I think it's worth 12 points to get flakk on an effectively BS10 Exarch with fast shot.

It's actually exactly +4 to hit, as the chances increases from
6+ re-roll: 1/6 + (5/6*1/6)= 6/36 + 5/36 = 11/36 -> 31%
to
2+ re-roll: 1-(1/6*1/6)= 1-(1/36) = 35/36 -> 97%

[Rx8Speed]

If you are looking for a unit of 5-6 then a unit of swooping hawks is your best bet. Don't give the exarch the power weapon. use the WS bonus to hit imperial knights/ dreadnaughts on 3s with your haywire grenades. This unit won't be too expensive and you should get a lot of mileage out of it. plus the new move distance with the gauranteed run distance is too good. Giving them an effective 48" reach

Removed copyrighted information.  --- GML

[The Reborn]

This has wandered off the path a little...but I think the best Exarch in combat is the Scorpion exarch...good attacks at high strength and high AP.  I just reckon he could hold his own against more or less anything with decent rolls..

[Cavalier]

Agree... the Scorpion Exarch is a beast. I think if you are cautious with them Scorpions are an excellent unit especially against drop-pod armies and units that need to move mid-field. Keep them out of LOS for a 2 or 3 turns then move-out clear objectives or snag offending units. The unit is almost a delivery system for the Exarch.