Topic: IA11: Corsairs and Forgeworld FAQ's

[Arquarian]

QUOTE
"Forge World is currently preparing FAQs intended to provide completely updated rules for all of the Imperial Armour and Imperial Armour Apocalypse books released prior to the arrival of the sixth edition of Warhammer 40,000. If you have any queries about Imperial Armour rules, army lists or units, please send an e-mail, including examples of how this query has come up in play, entitled ‘Imperial Armour rules query’ to forgeworld@gwplc.com. You can also call 0115 900 4995 within the UK, 011 44 115 900 4995 from the US and Canada or 00 44 115 900 4995 from much of Europe."
UNQUOTE

Ok so Treadalicious has the good idea of compiling an e-mail to FW to reply to the above point. Therefore inthis thread we can look in detail at the Corsairs List as givin in IA11 and comment.

Points I think we should concentrate on;

• Errors and ommisions.
• Rules clarifications.
• commentary on how the list plays in 6th ed. General chat about what is good/bad/awkward.

I suggest we go back to the origional IA11 book and comment on all errors, ommisions, clarifications etc. We can they comment if these were dealt with in a subsequent FAQ and if the answer was sufficient for 6th ed interpretation. This will prevent us getting in a tangle over trying to critique the FAQ's themselves.

I'll update this post with the final topics to be passed to FW.

Arq.

[Khorne25]

Holofields: pts update
Wraithguard as Elites or Troops
Kabalite Warriors as Troops?
The presence of 2H ranged weapons in the Prince wargear
The cost of power weapons across the corsairs (but especially on Elites and HQ)

Otherwise, I am very happy with 6th ed and Corsairs. At least nothing has glared in my face...

EDIT: This may be a good reference IA11 Corsairs Grievances and Discussion

[Arquarian]

Ok Khorne you're going to have to clarify your post.

"Holofields: pts update" is this wishlisting, an error or other...?

As an aside I thing the Wraithguard FOC slot wquestion has been argued to death (and imho pretty straight forward)

[Treadiculous]

Here are some:

The Elites choice of Craftworld / Dark Eldar allows 1 unit of allies... in 6th I can now add more allies... does picking Dark Eldar as Corsair Elites cause issues with taking Craftworld Eldar as Allies or vice versa?

Power Weapons need clarification (but this is a more general 6th ed question).

Haywire effects have changed - do we go with those written for the Warp Hunter or the Haywire effects written in 6th rulebook.

I'm trying to think of more

[Arquarian]

Here are some:

The Elites choice of Craftworld / Dark Eldar allows 1 unit of allies... in 6th I can now add more allies... does picking Dark Eldar as Corsair Elites cause issues with taking Craftworld Eldar as Allies or vice versa?

Why would it cause issues? where are the conflicting rules? I'm not being funny but is this a realy concern? I mean to me, its striaght forward.
You pic your army from the Corsair
list using the usual restrictions under the outcast allies rules. Then if you wish you chose some allies.
As per the FAQ's Corsairs, DE and CWE are all battle brothers so the relationship does not change in games terms.

Power Weapons need clarification (but this is a more general 6th ed question).

indeed this is a game wide rule that requires clarification.

Haywire effects have changed - do we go with those written for the Warp Hunter or the Haywire effects written in 6th rulebook.

as a general rule, you ALWAYS use the most recent rules unless specified otherwise. More so in this instance as these are now a change of edition rules. this could be claered up thought and should make the list.

[Aoitora]

Distort weapons and haywire weapons are not the same. I think the biggest issue with the Warp Hunter is why the Craftworld one has better chances to glance than the Corsair one.

Either way unless Im missing something there's nothing in the 6th ed book to change the rules for the Warp Hunter?

[Rakshasa72]

Mainly I'd like to see a clarification of how "Uncertain Allies" rule relates to the new 6th Edition allies rules.  As it stands it just creates a weird relationship between units purchased within the Corsair list and those purchased as 6th Edition Allies.

Digging deep for this one "Can a Gyrinx be used for 'Look out sir' roll?"

[Arquarian]

Ok Guys, the uncertain allies / allies matrix (to me) is relatively simple however this seems to be coming up again and again.

I'm going to move this to the rules board and promote discussion there. Where hopefully someone like Hymril will wade in and lay the smack down in his usual pithy yet, obviously correct, way.

[Rakshasa72]

It's not so much as I don't understand the Uncertain Allies / Allies Matrix.  It's the fact that I'd rather have an FAQ Ruling on it to point to if someone tries to Rules Lawyer me from having any Corsair ICs join with Battle Brother Allies units purchased using the 6th edition rules.  I'm just worried someone will try and expand the interpretation of the Rule beyond the Corsair force Org chart.

To add a couple questions about Sky Raiders.  The first sentence could be interpreted to mean the Corsair Prince must be the Warlord for the army in order to utilize the Sky Raiders rules.  Also a ruling on if the Deep Strike abilities can be given (or not)  to battle brothers might be helpful.

[Arquarian]

It's not so much as I don't understand the Uncertain Allies / Allies Matrix.  It's the fact that I'd rather have an FAQ Ruling on it to point to if someone tries to Rules Lawyer me from having any Corsair ICs join with Battle Brother Allies units purchased using the 6th edition rules.  I'm just worried someone will try and expand the interpretation of the Rule beyond the Corsair force Org chart.

well if they did that they would clearly be wrong. Its like saying a Marine player with IG allies expanding the ATSKNF rule to cover them. Just doesn't work like that does it.

You IC's cannot join units which are chosen under the uncertain allies rule. thats it. So if you want your void dreamer or Prince with some kabalite warriors, chose them using the allies matrix.
Simple. to be honest, there are way better places to put your prince, Incubi maybe?

To add a couple questions about Sky Raiders.  The first sentence could be interpreted to mean the Corsair Prince must be the Warlord for the army in order to utilize the Sky Raiders rules.  Also a ruling on if the Deep Strike abilities can be given (or not)  to battle brothers might be helpful.

It does not imply that. the first sentance of the rule is fluff to set the scene of the rule. you also don't HAVE to "conduct daring low altitude orbital raids, deploying weapons and units with shocking speed into the heart of the enemy" if you don't want to. The Sky raider rule is a special rule that the prince comes with, like his plasma grenades. If the Rule was in any way affected by the warlord rule in the BRB then we will get an FAQ.

As for the sky raiders rule affecting units outside the corsair list, see comments above regarding guardsmen with ATSKNF....


Arq.

[Rakshasa72]

I thought the whole point of this thread was to compile a list of potential rules that may need FAQ and, submit it to GW.  Instead fo trying to FAQ them ourselves.  We all know that GW tends to throw a few curve balls into thier FAQs.  In some cases this can lead to even more Qs then As.  I'm just trying to identify problem areas in the rules that may lead to FAQs.  If that's not what this thread is about then feel free to ignore me.

I still think that the "If your army is led by a Corsair Prince" phrase in Skyraiders could be read as a rule and not fluff.  Does this mean that the Corsair Prince has to be the Warlord to use this ability?  Does this mean that a Corsair Princen take as an ally cannot use this ability at all?  I think my question about weither or not the Skyraiders can be given to battl allies still stand.  Were as ATSKNF is a rule that is clearly an "racial" ability that all space marine models have.  Sky Raiders is an ability the Corsair Prince grants to units he commands.  The scope of how this rule interacts with the different type of allies is sure to come up as a question at some point.

[Arquarian]

I thought the whole point of this thread was to compile a list of potential rules that may need FAQ and, submit it to GW.  Instead fo trying to FAQ them ourselves.  We all know that GW tends to throw a few curve balls into thier FAQs.  In some cases this can lead to even more Qs then As.  I'm just trying to identify problem areas in the rules that may lead to FAQs.  If that's not what this thread is about then feel free to ignore me.

You are correct however the scenery has changed somewhat since this htread was first started. The most important change being the 6th ed rules. forgeworld are currently working on Full FAQ's for the IA series to bring them properly in line with the 6th ed rules.  Identifying issues is the idea of this thread but here we should discuss them before posting to FW/GW so that we have a coherent argument.
 

I still think that the "If your army is led by a Corsair Prince" phrase in Skyraiders could be read as a rule and not fluff.  Does this mean that the Corsair Prince has to be the Warlord to use this ability? 

As I said in my last thread the Skyraiders rule can be considered akin to having plasma grenades. The Prince can utilise this rule if you want him too but you do not have to. him being the Warloard of the army will have no bearing on this.

Does this mean that a Corsair Princen take as an ally cannot use this ability at all? 

You're reading too much into the rule. taken in conrtext of the 5th edition rules (when there were no warlords / allies etc...) when these rules were actaully written then you see that the Prince would automatically lead the army as he has the higher Ld value of all the HQ choices.  I believe you can read the rule to say... "if your army includes...." rather than "if your army leads...."  Becuase, I believe having a Void dreamer in the army, even if you chose for him to be your army general, will not take away the Skyraiders  rule fromthe Prionce. Reasonable? Still need a FAQ ruling?

I think my question about weither or not the Skyraiders can be given to battl allies still stand.  Were as ATSKNF is a rule that is clearly an "racial" ability that all space marine models have.  Sky Raiders is an ability the Corsair Prince grants to units he commands.  The scope of how this rule interacts with the different type of allies is sure to come up as a question at some point.

Indeed, so I ask the question have you read the Allies matrix FAQ posted by FW? where it tells you precisly the way the Corsairs and their rules can be used on battle brothers?  found here