Topic: Sergent options

[Shizukanashi]

I am starting a Salamander army, to go with my buddies Blood angels and white scars in an upcoming Marines vs Nids Apocolypse battle. 

Can I give a Marine Sergent a combi-flamer and a Powerfirst?  Without wanting to give rules and suffer the wrath of the mods, This is a question of how to interpret the and/or line on page 142 of the codex, under the Sergent options for the Tactical Squad.  Am I to understand that I can get 2 choices off this list, one for the boltgun and another one for the pistol, or does it have to be one or both, gets me one options from the list.

Please read the entry before answering, and give evidence to support your interpretation.

[FifthWindDieGermanator]

The and/or means that you effectivley have the option to replace one, none, or both of your starting weapons with the list, making your question true.

[Shizukanashi]

I am not sure I agree.  I mean how far does this go.  If that is the case then can I give all of my command squad marines plasma guns and thunderhammers, in the same way?  Or flamers and powerfists?  That seems a bit broken to me.

[Benis]

considering the cost for such a load out I would hold back such words as 'broken'. It clearly means that, like Fifth Wind Legion said, you can choose to replace none, one or two of the initial weapons.

The only squad which is open for a real feast in using these terminology is the Command Squad, which is limited in both FoC terms and numbers, after all it's only four models in each squad.

[FifthWindDieGermanator]

I am not sure I agree.  I mean how far does this go.  If that is the case then can I give all of my command squad marines plasma guns and thunderhammers, in the same way?  Or flamers and powerfists?  That seems a bit broken to me.

Yes, yes, and no, it isn't broken, because a) they are still only marines, and b), and Benis said, that would cost a heck of alot of points.

[Shizukanashi]

Roger that, thanks for the help guys.  Its something I definatly want to do.  I am building a Salamander list, and want to have lots of meltas and flamers with Vulkan. (I know this has been overdone in most circles but its never been done here) I want to include a flamer and a melta in my tac squads, with a sergent with either a combo flamer or -melta and a powerfist.  Additionally if I can find the room for two captains I would like to do some command sqauds, probably one with meltas and one with flamers and thunderhammers.  I just was not sure I was interpreting it right, it stills seems, not broken, but a bit beardy to me.  I have lots of faith in the 40k community though, and often call you guys the Gurus in my circle of friends.  If you say its legal, its legal.  Thanks!

[muzzyman1981]

Well I had an argument against the current opinion based upon the thought that you cannot take a two-handed weapon plus another weapon (i.e Plasmagun and Thunderhammer from the example above) but I cannot seem to find anything that mentions what is or is not a two-handed weapon.

The way it is said is that all weapons, unless otherwise stated, can be fired one handed....or rather lack of it saying two-handed type weapons cannot be fired one handed.  Am I wrong in this?  If so, even though I disagree with the opinion due to common sense (and the mentioned HIGH point costs) I must accept it as from what I can read it allows it.

[FifthWindDieGermanator]

Well I had an argument against the current opinion based upon the thought that you cannot take a two-handed weapon plus another weapon (i.e Plasmagun and Thunderhammer from the example above) but I cannot seem to find anything that mentions what is or is not a two-handed weapon.

The way it is said is that all weapons, unless otherwise stated, can be fired one handed....or rather lack of it saying two-handed type weapons cannot be fired one handed.  Am I wrong in this?  If so, even though I disagree with the opinion due to common sense (and the mentioned HIGH point costs) I must accept it as from what I can read it allows it.

One handed and two handed weapons don't exist anymore. Just say you put the Thunder Hammer away before you fire.

[muzzyman1981]

Yeah, like I said, I don't particularly agree with it but as there is no written difference now it is theoretically possible.  One point to the rules craziness =P

[therealpapasmurf]

if u have the points go a command squad with meltaguns and flamers! lol
salamanderish enough for ya

but the whole thing makes sense as its the only way u can get plus one attack for powerfists and thunderhammers

[muzzyman1981]

I thought the rules stated that you can't get the extra weapon attack unless you had another powerfist (i.e. powerfist/powerfist)?

[FifthWindDieGermanator]

I thought the rules stated that you can't get the extra weapon attack unless you had another powerfist (i.e. powerfist/powerfist)?

I think that was what he was getting at, the ability to take two powerfists on a single guy.

[therealpapasmurf]

yeah, sorry if i was a bit unclear

[muzzyman1981]

Ah ok =P Just checking lol

[Swamp Rat]

I'm sure i saw a weapon that was a flame thrower and a hammer in one, i can't remember where though, it was either a really old movie, or a really recent one that i didn't rate too well. Eitherway, putting the barrel of a meltagun on the base of a thunder hammer would be quite cool, that way he can fire it as a meltagun/flamer, then just swap it round and use it as a hammer :p

[Cortez]

the replacing/taking structure of the wargear sections do allow crazy stuff like this. good example is the crazy bike command squad of doom. This squad is on bikes, has plasma guns, power wepons/fists and a storm shield. its about 420 points with pweapons not fist and without upgrades but it is achievable. The sargeant can have a combiflamer and a powerfist. But if youre using vulkan, give hima hammer not a fist.
@muzzyman1981: nice idea, that would be an interesting way to model it. maybe put the barrel facing up on the hammer. or graft it onto the back.

[therealpapasmurf]

haha nice swamp rat
with that you could put a meltabomb on one of the hammer faces, like a last act of spite kinda thing (swing hammer down and BOOOM)

hehe

but just a theory: with the wargear options does that then mean that you can give a sarge 2xcombi meltas therefore giving him 2 melta shots in one game? obviously not in the same turn tho

[NewHeretic]

but just a theory: with the wargear options does that then mean that you can give a sarge 2xcombi meltas therefore giving him 2 melta shots in one game? obviously not in the same turn tho

I don't believe that there is any longer a rule saying that no more than one weapon of any kind may be purchased for any particular model, so it seems legal.

NewHeretic

[Cortez]

don't see why not but you would only be able to use one. but yeah, it seems legal.