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Author Topic: 3rd world conflicts or little known wars!  (Read 1062 times)

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Offline Zeus

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3rd world conflicts or little known wars!
« on: October 20, 2002, 10:48:09 PM »
I am interested in studying about

1. The Iran-Iraq war

2. The current Conflict in Chechneya

3. All those small little conflicts in Africa

4. Malaya (brits v commies)

I am most interested in Chechneya however, and if people could post me links to sites containing information on these subjects it would be very much appreciated. Also , if you want to debate these here, then feel free.

I shall get the ball rolling with, i think the british faught Malaya how the US should have fought Nam'
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Offline Spacewolf

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Re:3rd world conflicts or little known wars!
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2002, 11:11:04 PM »
 I am not sure I would have put Iran-Iraq war there that was pretty well known.

Offline Zeus

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Re:3rd world conflicts or little known wars!
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2002, 03:37:09 PM »
Yeah, its well known, but we dont know like all the details of the wars though :;/ which is wat i want.
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Offline Warhoon

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Re:3rd world conflicts or little known wars!
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2002, 03:50:06 PM »
Yeah, its well known, but we dont know like all the details of the wars though :;/ which is wat i want.

An oop game published by Victory Games called "Gulf Strike" had a scenario or two set during the Iran/Iraq war.

We never played the scenarios -- seemed dull throwing infantry wave after infantry wave at each other.

Now, throw that Soviet chem/bio battalion option in and it might have gotten interesting....
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Offline SparqMan

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Re:3rd world conflicts or little known wars!
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2002, 02:12:59 AM »
The Iran-Iraq war is interesting to study. I took a summer course on it. It's a great way to see how Iran differs from the Arab-Muslim states.

I assume you're most interested in the conflict in Chechnya from 1999 to now. This is an okay site I found while I was writing a policy paper on the issue: http://www.historyguy.com/chechen_war_two.html. This one is good too: http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/63/index-di.html. I would, however, recommend reading books on the topic. If you have questions, I have extensive knowledge on the topic. Feel free to ask.

Here is a list of small little wars that you might find interesting, but there are hundreds of small conflicts that are generally ignored:
•Algerian Civil War
•Angolan Civil War
•Azerbaydzhan Civil War
•Bahrain Civil Unrest
•Bougainville vs Papua New Guinea (started 1988, ended 1994)
•Burma Military Coup (1988)
•Burundian Civil War
•Cambodian Civil War
•East Timor vs Indonesia (started 1974, major massacre 1991)
•Ecuador vs Peru (border dispute)
•France vs Algerian Terrorists
•France vs Corsican Separatists
•Gambian Military Coup (July 14, 1994)
•Georgia vs Akatazan (started 1991)
•Haiti, in all its forms
•India vs Nagastan (started 1955)
•India vs Pakistan over Casmir Region of India (especially when put against India's new foreign policy)
•Israel vs Lebanon
•Liberia (started 1989, ceasefire August 1995
•Libya vs Chad (ended May 94)
•Mexico vs Zapatista Rebels
•Mozambique Civil War (ended 1993)
•North vs South Yemen
•Philippines vs Moslem Rebels (started about 1986)
•Rwanda Civil War (ended July 15, 1994 followed by severe refugee crisis)
•Saudi Arabia vs Yemen
•Sierra Leone vs Rebels
•Somalian Civil War  and resulting conflicts (and how it's tied to West Asian policies)
•Spain vs Basque Rebels (started 1959)
•Sri Lanka vs Tamil Rebels (ceasefire January 1995)
•Sudan Civil War
•Turkey vs Greece (especially over Cyprus)
•Turkey vs Kurdish Rebels
•Yeman Civil War (ended July 7, 1994)

Offline Zeus

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Re:3rd world conflicts or little known wars!
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2002, 04:24:30 PM »
WOW........you sure are a walking encylopedia arent you?
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Offline SparqMan

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Re:3rd world conflicts or little known wars!
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2002, 07:04:06 PM »
WOW........you sure are a walking encylopedia arent you?

Not entirely. I've studied this stuff a lot, and I have plenty of materials lying around.

Offline miclantecuthli

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Re:3rd world conflicts or little known wars!
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2002, 08:38:01 AM »
Do you also know something about the current problemes in Congo(the former Zaïre, not congo-brazzaville), cause I find the situation rather confusing.
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Offline SparqMan

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Re:3rd world conflicts or little known wars!
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2002, 10:01:35 AM »
A century of exploitive Belgian colonial domination and three decades of cleptocratic dictatorship by Mobutu had given Congo's diverse population little chance to discover and develop it's great potential and the nation's rich capacity. Instead, it had stirred sentiments of distrust and hatred along tribal lines and had left the people empty handed. Regional conflicts had weakened the national security and border disputes had disturbed the relationships with neighboring countries. The stage was set for a popular rebellion, which was supported by the Ugandan and Rwandan governments and successfully led to a change of leadership in the re-named Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC). The following year, dissatisfaction among military ranks led to yet another, less popular civil war. Several of the Congo's neighbors saw a chance to defend and secure their own interests by supporting the different sides in the conflict.

1996-1997: Civil War and Change of Power
In 1994, refugee camps had been set up in eastern Zaire for more than two million Rwandan Hutu's who fled their country out of fear for revenge after the massacre of over 500,000 rival Rwandan Tutsi and moderate Hutu people. In these camps Hutu militiamen, who had organized the ethnic killings along with former Rwandan soldiers, were allowed to mingle freely with civilian refugees and turned the camps into bases for rearmament. Widespread sentiments against the Tutsi population, who have been living for many generations in South Kivu and are known as the Banyamulenge, as well as an unresolved dispute over their Zairian citizenship complicated the situation. What initially appeared to be a regional uprising in the defense of the Zairian Tutsi population and to incapacitate extremist Rwandan Hutus, soon grew into a national Zairian rebellion. The Alliance of Democratic Forces for the Liberation of Congo-Zaire (AFDL), under the command of Laurent Desire Kabila and with covert support from the Tutsi-dominated Rwandan government, aimed to overthrow the Mobutu regime.

During nine months of bush war, the unpaid and unmotivated government soldiers offered little resistance. Mobutu fled to Morocco, and the rebels were welcomed by the population of the nation's capital, Kinshasa, as their liberators on May 17, 1997. Kabila restored the country's name to the Democratic Republic of the Congo, appointed himself as President under a one party rule and installed a strict order against corruptive practices, which relieved the population from the harassments it had endured for many years from Mobutu's soldiers. With this last measure, Kabila earned large public support, but throughout the first year of his rule, criticism grew both at home and internationally. His refusal to cooperate with a UN team to investigate alleged atrocities by his Tutsi allies against unarmed Hutu refugees during the civil war made the international community skeptical about Kabila's concerns for human rights. The frequent detentions of opposing political figures and journalists, and the perceived absence of efforts for democratic reforms put in doubt his government's commitment to future political pluralism. The lack of improvement in the economy and unemployment figures tested the population's patience with the new regime, while it was outspokenly displeased with the long term presence of Rwandan troops in the country.

Tensions between Kabila and his Rwandan allies became overt in May 1998, when Rwanda refused an invitation to a summit preceding the first anniversary of the liberation. Two months later Kabila ordered the Rwandan elements in the military to return to their country. This caused an uprising of the ethnically related Congolese Tutsi soldiers and other disenchanted factions of the Congolese army. Under the command of Jean-Pierre Ondekane, the country experienced the outbreak of a second civil war in less than two years time. The intellectual opposition politicians, Ernest Wamba dia Wamba and Arthur Z'Ahidi Ngoma and Kabila's former Minister of Foreign Affairs, Bizima Kahara, profiled themselves as the political backbone of the Congolese Rally for Democracy (RCD), accusing Kabila of corruption, nepotism and violation of human rights.

Kabila on the other hand, identified Rwanda and Uganda with their Tutsi-led governments as the invading enemies of the country. Threatened by their quick gains in both eastern and western Congo, Kabila called upon the country's other neighbors to help defend the integrity of the DRC's borders. He also attracted and trained the rival Rwandan Hutu militia, to help fight the enemy. In broadcasted speeches of its leaders, the population was summoned to take initiatives to rid the country of all hostile elements, hereby stirring the ever present sentiments of ethnic hatred. Military support from Angola, Zimbabwe and Namibia, prevented the rebel forces from capturing Kinshasa, and towns in western Congo were retaken by the allied forces. With the rebels continuing to make advances in the east of the country, Chad also joined the allied forces. Southern African countries, unified in the Southern African Development Committee (SADC), became split over the approach towards a solution to the geographically expanding war, with open conflict between the presidents of Zimbabwe and South Africa.

The fight against a common enemy united otherwise disagreeing groups within the Congolese population. Kabila, aware of his soaring popularity in the beginning of the war, stressed his intentions to pursue the national multi-party elections scheduled for April 1999. In January 1999 he allowed the registration of political parties under a multitude of strict conditions, which the main opposition leaders rejected as insincere. The SADC allied forces' failure to bring a halt to the fighting and Kabila's refusal to meet with rebel leaders incapacitated efforts by African leaders for a negotiated settlement to the conflict. Faced with the dilemma of a divided country with only half of the territory under government control, Kabila delayed the elections. Instead, he announced a national debate about the Congo's future, for April 1999. Objections to the character and agenda of this debate, the selection of its participants and the choice of location have given rise to serious doubts about its success. This debate has since been postponed and is supposed to be hosted by Kenya in June 1999. Negotiations initiated in April 1999 by Libyan President Khadaffi have facilitated agreements between Kabila, the SADC allied forces and Ugandan representatives. Without the signature of the rebel and Rwandan leaderships, however, this agreement offers little guarantee for an end to the hostilities.

Within the different groups that have joined the rebellion, disagreements surfaced about the ideology, quality and style of the RDC's leadership. Distrust about personal ambitions to pursue the rebellion caused rivalry between the leaders, while differences between the military sponsors, Rwanda and Uganda, became apparent in their backing of different factions. After Ngoma had quit the rebel movement in the beginning of 1999, Wamba dia Wamba was sidelined during an emergency meeting of the RCD in May 1999, where Dr. Emile Ilunga was named instead as the new leader of the movement.

Allegedly seven nations and multiple warring rebel factions from neighboring countries are militarily involved in the Congo conflict. Despite a peace accord signed in 1994 rebels of the National Union for the Total Independence of Angola (UNITA) have renewed and intensified their fight against the Angolan government. In a continuation of the civil strife in neighboring Congo Republic, confrontations between forces loyal to the former democratically elected but ousted president Lissouba and military leader Sassou Ngesso account for great insecurity and vast destruction. Much of the Central African region seems to have entered an era of prolonged political and military instability, inflamed by ethnic conflict. A humanitarian disaster of unforseen magnitude is well on its way.

Basically, it all comes down to a conflict between the Hutus and Tutsis. It is an ethnic conflict which spreads across national borders.

BBC has a nice little FAQ: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/148462.stm, as well as a nice timeline: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1072684.stm

Offline miclantecuthli

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Re:3rd world conflicts or little known wars!
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2002, 12:20:51 PM »
Thanks, I already knew a little about the conflict and learned a lot.

Quote
Basically, it all comes down to a conflict between the Hutus and Tutsis. It is an ethnic conflict which spreads across national borders.

I know that this is the reasons why Rwanda "invaded" congo, but I have the impression that the natural resources play an important role in the conflict.
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Offline SparqMan

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Re:3rd world conflicts or little known wars!
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2002, 08:00:43 PM »
Thanks, I already knew a little about the conflict and learned a lot.

No prob. You're welcome.

I know that this is the reasons why Rwanda "invaded" congo, but I have the impression that the natural resources play an important role in the conflict.

It always does. It's one of the many reasons for the continuing of the conflict there.

Offline miclantecuthli

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Re:3rd world conflicts or little known wars!
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2002, 07:11:13 PM »
Do you also know something about Nepal. I ask this because there's a big discussion here in Belguim about the conflict. Nepal wants to buy guns(FN, I think minimi) in Belguim, but the greens have an ethical problem with selling weapons to a country that offends the human rights. We heard nothing about the conflict and it's now suddenly in every newspaper and on every TV-channel. We only knew that the royal family was murdered by the prince.

I think that we should sell the weapons to Nepal, because it's never good to support an organisations like the rebels in Nepal: they offend the human rights and they attack non-military targets like hospitals and schools. I can understand that they are unhappy in Nepal, but there are other ways to change things.
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Offline SparqMan

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Re:3rd world conflicts or little known wars!
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2002, 12:44:16 AM »
The Communist Party of Nepal (CPN) (Maoist) declared a "people's war" in February 1996, aimed at the de facto abolition of the constitutional monarchy and the establishment of a "New Democracy", i.e. a (one-party) people's republic. This constitutes, according to the CPN (Maoist), an "historic revolt against feudalism, imperialism and so-called reformists."

The immediate reason given by the Maoists for declaring the "people's war" was the failure of the government to respond to a memorandum presented by its representative to Prime Minister Sher Bahadur Deuba on 4 February 1996. This memorandum listed 40 demands related to ''nationalism, democracy and livelihood''. These included the abolition of royal privileges and the promulgation of a new constitution, and the abrogation of the Mahakali treaty with India on the distribution of water and electricity and the delineation of the border between the two countries.

As the violence spread across the country and the number of police personnel being killed and injured increased, senior police officers acknowledged demoralization and lack of relevant training among police to fight the Maoists. Police complained that they did not have the necessary powers to arrest and keep in custody those suspected of being involved in violent activities. Consecutive governments attempted to introduce new legislation to widen the powers of the police, but no such legislation was passed through parliament mainly because of the prevailing political instability.

In November 1999, an eight-member "High Level Consensus Seeking Committee" was appointed by the then Prime Minister Koirala in an attempt to enter into dialogue with the leadership of the CPN (Maoist). However, its efforts to initiate a dialogue were frustrated, and its mandate was not extended on expiry in October 2001. Further attempts were made during the remainder of that year. After the appointment of Sher Bahadur Deuba as Prime Minister, a cease-fire between the government and the Maoists came into force on 23 July 2001. Three rounds of talks were held between both sides. However, negotiations broke down in late November 2001, over the political demands of the Maoists, in particular the demand for the setting up of a constitutional assembly.

Following the break-down of the peace talks, the CPN (Maoist) attacked police and army posts in 42 districts. The authorities responded on 26 November 2001 by declaring a nationwide state of emergency and deploying the army. The King also promulgated the Terrorist and Disruptive Activities (Prevention and Control) Ordinance (TADO), 2001, which granted wide power to arrest and detain people involved in "terrorist" activities.

Under the state of emergency, a number of fundamental rights guaranteed in the Constitution have been suspended, including the rights to freedom of assembly, freedom of expression and to constitutional remedy. It is also feared that the army and police have interpreted the suspension of fundamental rights to include a suspension of the right to life which is not clearly guaranteed in the Constitution. Although the right of habeas corpus (order requiring a detainee to be brought before a judge or into court), has not been suspended, very few habeas corpus petitions have been filed since the state of emergency was declared. Relatives of the victims and their lawyers are afraid to pursue habeas corpus petitions for fear that their actions may be interpreted as "supporting terrorism" which has been made a crime under the TADO.

Offline miclantecuthli

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Re:3rd world conflicts or little known wars!
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2002, 01:46:18 PM »
That's different than the things heard in the Belgian press, I'll have to rethink my opinions about it.

Quote
I am most interested in Chechneya however, ...

I hope that you've heard about the terrible hostaging(is this the right word?) in Moscow, 67 people were killed! This shows one of the difficulties: there's more than one enemy in Chechneya, the freedom fighters didn't support this act of terrorism. This means that there are more factions, all with other weapons and goals.
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Offline miclantecuthli

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Re:3rd world conflicts or little known wars!
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2002, 02:03:58 PM »
Sorry, old news: 130+ people killed in Moscow!
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Offline SparqMan

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Re:3rd world conflicts or little known wars!
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2002, 05:01:28 PM »
130 isn't that bad considering there were 600 people held inside. It could have been worse. Kudos to the Russian commandos who charged in there.

 


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