Topic: Let me be the first to cry....

[incredibleskulk]

RAPE!!!! Someone get me a whistle, hot shower, and can of mace!

Good god the 6e and faq has massacred our beloved orks. No special psyker powers, reduce the might of the kff, reduce the durability of our vehicles, reduce the ability to use cover, reduce the standard cover saves, increase the ability to shoot at range with rapid fire, add ap values to cc weapons, remove models closest(reducing charge ranges and potentially eating your nob), etc. The list is a long one.

Anyone notice anything that boosts our army, cause i have yet to notice it!!!

[The Gretchin]

No loss of boys because of fearless-saves.

Walk and shoot with Lootas (at 1 lower BS).

Choppas/Shootas/Sluggas/Big Shootas are better vs tanks (3 glancings destroy).

Tankbustas are better vs tanks (see above).

Nightfight in 50% of all games.


Sure, a lot of things have been nerfed, but some things have been better.

[MajorMcNicol]

Yeah I don't think it's all that bad, dude!  The loss of only 1 BS for snap fire for example is nice, especially when you are already throwing as many dice as Orks do. 

[waylander1983]

plus how awsome are mega nobz now in CC:) saves against most things so will get to put out lots of PK attacks!

[Heretek]

Also note that Nobz with power klaws are now strength 10 on the charge with the changes to Furious Charge.

[Ollieb]

Odd I believe Orks got better.  I'll pm my address and you can send me your Orks

[nesbitt_bub1]

Also note that Nobz with power klaws are now strength 10 on the charge with the changes to Furious Charge

Incorrect. Page 2, multiple modifiers section.

[incredibleskulk]

Odd I believe Orks got better.  I'll pm my address and you can send me your Orks

Well, I play kan wall. My entire army is based on quantity and durability which is held together on two kff meks.

I go with 9 rokkit kans, 2 double rokkit dreads, 120ish boys, 9 rokkit buggies. Nothing here really matters with snap shot, i dont take lootas, although i am reconsidering now. I never took them because they fall off the board first turn when i fail my ld tests, but they can regroup now. They just never do anything for me lol.

So, hull points on kans are only 2 each, which is super low durability, the save goes from 4 to 5, etc.

I see some good points on how they are better, but most of that doesnt seem to apply to my particular army. But i do see those points!

[SKEETERGOD]

Actually one of the first things I noticed is that my burna boys got even better than they are. Now not only can they drive up and fry a unit, but when a different unit tries to assault them they can fry that unit too 

One thing that I kinda noticed is that a lot of these "new" rules are throw backs to almost first edition. So I kinda have played this way before, since most of the old loopholes have been closed it will be just like old times.

As for taking casualties from the closest models that might end up avoiding charges, well, I kinda did that anyway, so now instead of a "sneaky" trick it is the way it is supposed to play. 

One thing I noticed that will be a great improvement to the way the orks fight is that you no longer have to base a character to hit him, or hit with him, he just has to be in coherency to fight. So with lots of boys in front to take the casualties the I1 stuff will be able to swing even if they are not touching anything, so that there is just good stuff.

There will be a few adjustments in tactics with my speed freaks, so I will have to get back to you all on this after I get a few more games in.

I will update my tacticas in the Ork Boot Kamp once I finalize a few things, and make sure they work in real games, but in theory hammer the orks did indeed get much better. Yes a couple of nerfs, but a lot of good things that we can use to our advantage. I will post these little tricks and tips once I get a few more games in to make sure that the theory hammer is as good as actual Warhammer 40k gaming.

However I do feel sorry for my eldar, who got so seriously nerfed I am thinking of throwing them out on e-bay before the rest of the world gets the new rule book.

[Heretek]

Also note that Nobz with power klaws are now strength 10 on the charge with the changes to Furious Charge

Incorrect. Page 2, multiple modifiers section.

Ah, well spotted. I was looking all over the place in the weapons and USR sections, didn't think to go right to the start. 

[adamscurr]

Ok...  So I'm digesting the rules...  It's gonna take some adjustment, but we will figure it out...  I do have a question...  How are you guys dealing with the precision shot rule...  It seems like any time they roll a 6 to shoot, they are going to target the PK nob and take him out pretty quick, real quick with something str 8 or higher...

Adam

[Heretek]

I only really see it being a problem with massed sniper rifle fire getting lucky, how many independent characters do you see running around with strength 8 shooting weapons? If you don't take it already, 'eavy armour for Nobz leading mobs of Boyz will give you a save against sniper rifle fire, and remember that you still get to use 'look out, sir!' against precision shots.

[Treadiculous]

The biggest hurt is the Rokkit Buggies.. now that there are only 2 speed disctinctions in assault vs vehicles (moved and stationary) they've become seriously vulnerable to S4 assaults.

I always felt the KFF was meant to mean obscurred 4 but modified up to 5+ if there was no cover (as detailed in 5th ed slightly vague cover saves rule). It seemed weird it did more for vehciles than infantry since the orks project the orky latent psionic ability and not the rusting metal. .. but then orkses are weirdses.

I need to process all the other changes regarding Orks, but I also feel the snap shot works quite well for the greenskins.

[Rikerwota]

Just so you know, Skeetergod, template weapons can't Overwatch/snap-shot...sorry : /

*Edit* I know, I messed up - I'm sorry

[Lachdonin]

Just so you know, Skeetergod, template weapons can't Overwatch/snap-shot...sorry : /

Incorrect. Look at the rules on page 52 for Template weapons

[Rikerwota]

Yup, just found that and jumped back on to correct myself...

One thing that the rulebook hasn't changed - you still have to look in 50 different places to find all the rules

[SKEETERGOD]

A piece of good news is that your nob squads will now be cheaper, as you no longer have to individually kit out each one. You can have seven same kit nobs and keep the pain boy, Waagh banna, and PK/BP nob at the rear.

Another thing that I think you all will like is you can now bring your own cover for your lootas. Did you see that the new force org chart includes a fortification slot? I predict that many of you loota players will be getting either the bastion or the barricades set to bring your own fire base to battle with you. I am almost seriously tempted to get a bastion myself for my tank busta boys, and yes I will be painting it red...

I see that krumpy armies like ours will need to bring more boys and less toys so we can absorb the casualties and still win. There are those who remarked that we will have higher casualties from shooting, but we are orks and have always had higher casualties from shooting, all the more reason to have more boys 

Overall the changes are not too bad, and many of them unwittingly favor the orks, I will not post all of them here as I don't want to get this thread locked for posting rules and whatnot, so what I will do is in the future I will post up mini tacticas on how the new rules make being an ork even better. To find them yourselves just re-read the CC section of the new rules at least twice and they seem to jump off the page at you on the third reading. Try it, you will be shocked at what you discover.

I get to play an average of three games a week (the advantage of being semi retired) and so I will get some good gaming in, ironing out how to use the new rules and how to tweak them so that the orks gain the most benefit. Of course my "mini tacticas" will be heavily slanted towards speed freaks (I wonder why?) I might garner a trick or tip that you can use.

[Ginger farseer]

NO, my kan wall!

Odd I believe Orks got better.  I'll pm my address and you can send me your Orks

Well, I play kan wall. My entire army is based on quantity and durability which is held together on two kff meks.

I go with 9 rokkit kans, 2 double rokkit dreads, 120ish boys, 9 rokkit buggies. Nothing here really matters with snap shot, i dont take lootas, although i am reconsidering now. I never took them because they fall off the board first turn when i fail my ld tests, but they can regroup now. They just never do anything for me lol.

So, hull points on kans are only 2 each, which is super low durability, the save goes from 4 to 5, etc.

I see some good points on how they are better, but most of that doesnt seem to apply to my particular army. But i do see those points!

Seconded, almost exactly what I was going to say, the only thing you missed out, is that cover for the boyz behind the kanz has been reduced (I think I can say that)

I already take few toys (unless you count kanz, which I don't), I  include many boyz (120 min in 1500+) but other than becoming a speed freak, (sorry skeet but no chance at the minuet), what can I do to keep my kan wall up, running and successful.

[Ollieb]

I just don't see how Kanz got worse.  I've played 3 6th Ed games with my Kanwall and did well each one. 

No more spreading out hits.  I take 2 glances they go to the nearest Kan.  I get my KFF save and if it doesn't work then one Kan gets wasted.  Under 5th I ran a chance of loosing both and knew that for one turn I'd loose the shots from both of them.  If you take a single glance you can still shoot.  Seems like an even trade off to me.   

If one Kan takes a HP of damage this turn next turn make sure it isn't the nearest target to the guys shooting at it.  If they get shot at again a new Kan will take the damage leading to the possibility you can have multiple Kans each with a single HP gone rather than one wrecked.

If a Kan gets immobilzed it is no longer dead.  If you can get a BM over to it you can attempt a repair.  This is dangerous though as you'll need to be aware of where the shots are coming from as he could get targeted. 

Every new edition has changes you just have to find the way to overcome them.  Right now the only army I'd be afraid to see is one packing tons of Autocannons. They could potentially slag a mob of Kans a turn.  Not really concerned with Necrons though I haven't faced them yet.  Seems to me that once the Kans are close enough for Gausss Weapons their squads should be close enough for massed shoota fire from the boyz behind them.     

[Ginger farseer]

bad things the kan wall now has:

 my entire army relies on cover to survive, EVERYTHING in my army used to get a 4+ cover save, now that has been nerfed to 5+ for EVERYTHING.

Next two glance/penetrating hits unsaved by the KFF on my kanz now means one dead kan, no more oh never mind it only glanced me, now it's damn, half my kan's dead.

Overwatch means that squads will loose a lot of orks to incoming fire, especially as I always charge what is best at shooting first so it can't shoot me much-that equals more dead boyz.

the changes of multiple charging mean that if you multiple chage squads, shoots boyz will get just 3 meq wounds when charging, (not counting shooting before hand).

Oh, and models with rapid fire can  move back slowly, whilst still loosing full shots.

removal from the front means that either the power claw nob dies quickly, or is in a bad position for krumping things, vehicles in particular. It also means that you carol a mob of boyz back, so that the overwatch can halt a charge, and it effectively reduces movement as well.

There is some debate about whether fleet has been nerfed or not, so depending on which way you look at it the Waaggh rule might have lost something.

What good things has the kan wall just got.

Glances can no longer 1 hit them. 

you can allocate wounds as you wish if you have time to rearrange the squad inbetween shots.


Anything else?