Topic: So appearently starting Chaos...

[CobraCommander]

It kinda came as an accident. I was talking with an old Chaos player, and the next thing I know, I just bought his whole army for 100 bucks.

Me: Well, how about 250?
Him: Oh...I was thinking 100.
Me:

He gave me vague details on what I'd be buying, though he did say he had bought it all for 315 over his time of playing, so...Good deal all around. He said he had only 5 guys painted from a squad, everything else not painted. Including, a Defiler, I believe something like 3 squads, a tank thats half painted, most likely a pred, another none painted tank could be a rhino, maybe some deamons but I don't think so. Aaaaaand a Chaos Lord along with Codex, but I can imagine it's probably the old one. When did the newest one come out by chance?

So a few things. I really have no idea how to use Chaos. I've read over their new dex once or twice, noticed the large amount of wargear they can get. Checked out the deamons, and read most of the fluff, so I'm somewhat uneducated when it comes to them game statisticswise. A few questions.

What are their good units?
What should I look into?
What should I stay away from?

I'm considering maybe just having a ragtag band of Chaos guys, no real tournament potential. Bunch of guys...Some tanks, maybe some deamons or Raptors. I'm not really sure I'd want to bulk up this force until a well oiled killing machine. Really I'll have to see what I get before anything else, which should be in the next day or two. Until then, advise or tips would be nice.

COOOOBRAAAAAA!

[Lord of Winter and War]

First off welcome to Chaos. The armylist has a large assortment of different units all with their own purposes, and there is truly nothing in the army that one could not consider adding to their force (unless you have cult restrictions or something).

The best thing to do would be to make an armylist with what you have, and play a few games with it and see how it goes. After that you can consider what it is your army is lacking in (be it shooting, Close combat power, or mobility). Also feel free to post an armylist in the 'army list and tactica forum' if you want some advise on your lists.

[YuenglingDragon]

My printing of the Chaos codex is copyright 2002.  So if yours is printed after that you're good to go.

The basic rules for army composition that you use with your 'Nids apply here (as far as I can tell they work with every army).  Troops are paramount.  Don't spend too much on your HQ.  Don't mix roles.  Do kick ass.

[pepsi]

and your chosen, arguably, if not already the most customizable unit in your arsenal.


ANd this army can be up to you, it can be surprising and can be tough, but not played right you will suffer, and laugh at your death.

Daemons can be great/all be it expensive counter assault or pinning forces. The tanks are almost space marine standard with some quirks, and a defiler.

if you decide black legion, there is nothing to stop you from fielding any types of unit. If you want close combat, grab some khorne berserkers, you want shooty, grab slaanesh in fact grab both. It will be up to you, your wallet, and your pts budget enjoy the chaos.

[Master Bio-Titan BT]

I think the best thing for you to do is to find out exactly what you are buying so that we can better assist you in your future unit selections.  From what you have told us thus far, it sounds like you are getting a great deal for a $100!

It is hard to say what units are best and what units are worse as their are different Chaos legions and balance and support or units.

[CobraCommander]

Alright, I just got my hands on all the Chaos stuff. And it turns out it's basically a megaforce.

1 Defiler
1 Rhino
3 Bikes
2 6 man CSM squads
1 Korne Berzerker squad

And possibly some Possessed CSM, cause I found arms that belong to them. Would that usually come with a megaforce to iunno, change some guys into possessed? I haven't got the codex though, it's at a friends, which I'll possibly be picking up tonight. So, I don't have an HQ, I was thinking I could maybe just convert a CSM into a Chaos Lord. And what are these Chosen? Are they HQ choices? Are they seperate models? Or can I just say..."This is a Chosen." and use a regular CSM

Thanks
COOOBRAAA!!!

[pepsi]

I use death company as my chosen, the beauty of chaos is just make the space marines stand out.

As they are just marines

(exception with terminators, but they have their own model)

[Lord of Winter and War]

If you use chosen, you should make sure to make them look really cool. Though unless they are terminators there is not much of a reason to include chosen. Power armor chosen can be very expensive and are no more resiliant then a normal squad of marines. Terminators get tons of neat yummy goodies.


Now. you seem to have a good army there starting up. I would try and bolster the marine squads with some more numbers, and you could do with an HQ model of some sort.

[CobraCommander]

Well I've thought long and hard. I looked through the Chaos Codex a few times, most importantly at the actual army I think I'm going to play, and....I think I wish to play Iron Warriors. They seem so cool. And I like the idea of seiging marines, more then any of the other concepts. Plus the fact I can use Basilisks and Vindacators helped too. Could anyone give me some idea on what Iron Warriors are good for, besides Heavy Support. I was actually thinking of using Bikes, because...I just put one together and I think they look SO awesome. Any advise on them? I know they're alright, but they can get blown away so easily, thats why I kind of questions the notion of doing it. So far, nothing more to say for now. Still slowly putting them together. Also, considering I only have a rhino, and a Defiler, would mutated hull be a good idea to put on the rhino? I mean, since it's basically my only tank for now, I'd kinda wanna keep it alive for long until I get more things. Just some thoughts so far. Anybody else supply some input?


COOBRAAAAA!!!

[Lord of Winter and War]

remember you cannot use berserker's as Iron Warriors.


Bikes are expensive, but are usful in squads 4 or larger I'd bet. Defilers should have nothing bu indirect fire, and mutated hull at most (no weapon upgrades).

Iron warriors are a very common army, and will prevent you from using demons if you would ever want to use them. Though it is your army and you can do as you wish.

I recommend making a 1000pt army list including what you have, then adding what you want to it. Post it in this thread and then we can work on a way to see what you should get, also it'd help you get comfortable with the army list a bit more.

Remember to keep in mind Fire support, Combat support, and Mobility. Those three things are very important in an army in my opinion.

Having 4 sixman squads for troops with missiles/autocannons and plasmaguns though I have always found to be a good foundation for the army when I played Iron warriors. After that I expanded with other things.

[CobraCommander]

Alrights here's what I came up with so far.

HQ: 458

Chaos Lord:Terminator Armour, Daemonic Essence, Combi-Bolter, Bionics, Siege Specialist* = 108
Chaos Ltn :Terminator Armour, Daemonic Essence, Combi-Bolter, Bionics, Siege Specialist* = 93
Chosen Reutine(6):Aspiring Champion, Missile Launcher, Autocannon, Seige Specialist*     = 152
Chaos Rhino: Mutated Hull, Parasitic Possession, Extra Armour, Pintle Combi-Bolters = 115

Troops : 235

Chaos Space Marines (6): Aspiring Champion, Combi-Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Plasma Gun, Siege Specialist* = 115
Chaos Space Marines (6): Aspiring Champion, Combi-Bolter, Missile Launcher, Plasma Gun, Siege Specialist* = 120

Fast Attack: 125

Chaos Biker (3): Aspiring Champion, Plasma Pistol, Siege Specialist* = 125

Heavy Support: 210

Defiler: Mutated Hull, Heavy Bolters, Havoc Launcher, Indirect Fire = 210

Total Points: 1038

* = Since they're Iron Warriors, they get Siege Specialist for free, so I thought I'd just add that into the profile.

Not too bad I must say...Of course I have really no idea if any of that is all that good. It seems kinda plain to me. I somewhat question the desicussion of taking the Chosen, I could just make them into regular CSM.

The main thing I'm wondering, is if I should get rid of the Chosen, and Have the Lord and Lieutanent in seperate squads, instead of basically an "HQ squad".

Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions?

COOBRAAAAA!!!

[pepsi]

Chosen in power armor have good and bad sides, if heavily invested in pts dont use them to shoot. Dont leave them in the open.

MY standard always uses Daemonic speed to counteract the 3+ weakness. I find the best armor is to get into combat.

However for me to make use of this I usually go with 6-8 chosen. And it is not uncommon for me to bolster them with warhounds for extra combat attacks.

Not entirely bad against space marinearmies, however imperial guard players pose problems with ordanance.

If you are going with an expensive unit, make the best of it, I arm them with the minimum power weapon, aspiring champion, Daemonic speed, and a furious charge. I think to the cavalry charges of olden days.

This may or may not go to well against horde armies.

However statisticaly you will win combat and force checks often on the charge. Daemonic visage may be interesting in this point.

Chosen with Daemon support can be another utter surprise, I think to fleshhounds of khorne. If you chose to summon them and launch them into assault you may keep one squad off your marines while you with your chosen assault another squad.

[CobraCommander]

Well, I the real problem I'm having, is, since I know nothing about Chaos, I'm not too sure how much stuff I SHOULD have in this points range. When I looked at it, it seemed to me like I was making everything too expensive to get to that 1000 point marker. How much stuff can you usually fit into a 1000 points Iron Warriors list? Also, I was really thinking of going Shooty with this army, since I already have an Assaulty army, and I'd like a bit from both sides, so I'm kind of thinking of making this a really shooty army. Since they're Space Marines, I think they can handle themselves alright if they do get assaulted, but I'd really like to just have alot of guns shooting things with that BS4.

COOOBRAAAA!!

Edit: Was also thinking, if it was too expensive, should I get rid of the Chosen, move the troop sqauds to 9 a peice and then attach the Lord to one and the Lieutanent to another? Maybe Lord and co. go into the rhino?

[Adam LongWalker]

First thing You should get an updated Codex.  Second thing I think you should start playing the Chaos Undivided Army known as the Black legion.

The Army list is very flexible to your needs so that you can add khorne berserker to your army list as well as other different aspects of the chaos codex.

Then from there you can branch out.

Welcome to this forum Cobra Commander.

[4084595657]

Iron warriors are actually a really good army as long as you get the shooting and close combat balance right. For an iron warriors force its almost essential to give up two fast attack slots for one heavy support. I have a tactics thread on iron warriors you might wanna check it out.

http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=135230.0

[CobraCommander]

Yeah, I checked out your Tactica...I don't think I'd use most of those though. Meatshield sounds pointless to me, why use them to die when you can at least do something with them besides soak up fire? I liked the Arc though, but I think with my army, I'm going to go really shooting, hopefully to the point where I can manage without CC guys. But if it seems too hard, I'll switch a few things up. Gate I thought wasn't that great of an idea. I mean, if you actually position your troops so they look like a gate, your enemy is just as likely to attack the "door" part of the gate, and then afterwards deal with whatevers on the other side.

I think I may stick with Iron Warriors though. I wouldn't really feel like painting everything black, and then after a few months of playing them, have to paint everything different again. Unfortunately, the modelling has become a big bogged down...When I bought the megaforce off the guy, it didn't have instructions for how to build the Defiler, and Rhino...So I'm kinda building it from what I see in the picture. Theres a few things I'm wondering about. Like, what peices go in what places mostly. I'll post some updates in a bit though. Bye for now.

COOOBRAAAA!!!

Edit: I was also wondering if I should put points into getting Sorcerers. Are they worth getting? I kind of think they wouldn't really fit with Iron Warriors though, so I may not do it. Also, I've found someone who's willing to buy my Bezerkers, seeing how I can't use them. Any ideas on what I should buy with that money? Was thinking maybe some more marines. Or maybe save up for a Predator, or Basilisk. But, we'll just have to wait and see.

[4084595657]

well i never use a sorceror, my HQ is always the same:

lieutenant, d flight, d aura, kai gun, mark of undivided...