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Author Topic: 750 Point Vostroyan AM Vs Orks: Big Guns Never Tire  (Read 2498 times)

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Offline Wyddr

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750 Point Vostroyan AM Vs Orks: Big Guns Never Tire
« on: January 30, 2016, 03:48:41 PM »
750 Vostroyan AM Vs Orks: Big Guns Never Tire

In the continuing effort to introduce my friend Mike to the game and find him an army he likes playing, we recently played a 750 point match where he used a bunch of my models to proxy a small ork force. In lieu of my usual fiction vignette, I'm just going to hop right into the report.

Vostroyan Garrison Company
Astra Militarum Combined Arms Detachment

Company Command Squad w/Carapace, 2x Sniper Rifles, Mortar, Master of Ordnance (Warlord Trait: Master of Command)

Grenadiers w/2x Plasma, Autocannon
Grenadiers w/2x Plasma, Autocannon
Grenadiers w/3x Grenade Launcher, Lascannon

Leman Russ Punisher w/Heavy Bolter Sponsons ("Chainsaw Heidi")
Avenger Strike Fighter ("The Devil Marie")

Ork Raiding Party
Ork Combined Arms Detachment

Warboss w/'Eavy Armor, Bosspole (Warlord Trait: Kunnin' But Brutal)
Big Mek w/Kustom Force Field

20 Slugga Boyz w/Nob + Bosspole
20 Slugga Boyz w/Nob + Bosspole
10 Tankbustas
--in Trukk w/Rokkits
5 Lootas

3 Deffkoptas

Terrain, Mission, and Deployment
For terrain, I set up a military facility, basically. There was a large power plant dominating mid-board west, an in-tact building at about mid-board center, a watchtower at exactly mid board, and a series of trenches and a bunker running along the north. In the east there was a forest and a few craters. In the southwest corner there was a small defense line. A wall separated the "base" from the eastern wilderness, stretching below the building. Overall there was plenty of LOS-denying cover (the building and the powerplant) which I figured would work to the Orks advantage, but some large areas of open space, which I figured would work to my advantage a bit.

The Mission was Big Guns Never Tire, meaning I had two extra VP at risk in the Avenger and the Punisher. Given my opponent's list, I wasn't awfully worried about the Punisher, just so long as I could keep the Tankbustas out of assault. The Avenger was at risk of being shot down by tankbustas, but not if I could kill them first--they and their trukk would clearly be high on my target priority list. The game had 4 objectives, placed as follows: 1 in the defense platform in the SW, 1 atop the central building, 1 in the NW trenches, and 1 in the NE crater. We rolled Vanguard Strike deployment and I won the pre-game roll-off.

I chose the SW corner as my base of operations, as it put me on top of the SW objective and pretty close to the central one. The crater I gave up for lost and then the objective would be to keep him from claiming the NE one. I had the Punisher anchor my lines at the edge of the landing pad. The Lascannon Grenadiers went to the west of it, one group of Plasma Grenadiers went to the east of it, and one of them deployed behind it. The CCS claimed the SW objective and planned on staying there. The Avenger, of course, waited in the wings. 

The Orks virtually mirrored my deployment on the other side--the Trukk at the edge of the forest, the two groups of sluggas on either side. The Mek and Tankbustas were in the Trukk, the Warboss hung out with the southern sluggas. The Lootas deployed out of LOS behind the northern bunker, as did the Deffkoptas. 

Deployment


Vostroyan Deployment

Note: I did take pictures of my opponents deployment, but as they were all bloodletters and chaos marines and stuff, I'm not sure the pictures really add to the report by much, so I've pretty much left those out. The map should be sufficient.

Turn 1
The Orks fail to seize the initiative, so I get going. My plan is pretty simple: kill the Trukk and the tankbustas, and then use Chainsaw Heidi to rip apart orks with impunity. The big building blocks LOS to his army, so early shooting will be thin, but the big building also comprises a serious obstacle to him getting to grips with me, so I'm totally okay with the delay.

Knowing that Tankbustas in Trukks can get a pretty decent charge off, especially with a WAAAGH called, I seek to bubble-wrap the Punisher while moving it north so it can get some LOS with the Heavy Bolters. The Lascannon Grenadiers hug the tank while it picks off four orks from the edge of the north mob. The rear plasma squad moves forward to get itself in a useful position and the CCS shuffles some of its members forward so the officer can get order range to the necessary units. The Master of Ordnance (MoO) stays put, as does the mortar crew. The Officer issues a Bring It Down to the forward plasma grenadiers, since their autocannon has LOS to the trukk. They take their potshots and the force field deflects one pen and the other shot just takes off a hull point with a glance. Then I issue another Bring it Down to the Command squad itself, which tries to call in an artillery strike on the Trukk. I scatter a full 9" off target...right into the middle of the southern mob of boyz. It's a nasty blast that kills about 5-6 orks and takes a wound off the warboss. Early on, I can tell my opponent is already feeling demoralized. That's not good.

Top of Turn 1


The guardsmen shuffle around a bit

In the Ork turn, the Trukk guns it to hide behind the building while both mobs of orks run in my general direction, both sheltering as much as possible behind the big building. The Koptas fly behind the power plant, careful to remain out of sight, and the Lootas jump out to the other side of the bunker and open fire on some grenadiers, killing 2.

Bottom of Turn 1


Turn 2
I can see that the Koptas are planning to loop behind my forces and try to pick off the CCS, so I "Run, Run, Run" the rear plasma squad back to serve as an assault deterrent--they might get my CCS, but the plasma squad will gun down the koptas pretty quickly thereafter.

The Punisher backs up and picks off another 4 orks in the north mob while the Lascannon squad moves so its grenade launchers can get range on the Lootas. That plus a First Rank/Second Rank drops 3 of the 5 Lootas, which is most satisfactory. The forward plasma squad takes pot-shots at the approaching warboss squad with another First Rank/Second Rank and kills 2-3, as well.

The Avenger swoops in and does its level best to blow up the Trukk. It scores 3 penetrating hits and a glance, and the lousy Kustom Force Field saves every single pen--still just one more hull point off. It's up to the Artillery now. The Master of Ordnance makes the call and an Earthshaker shell lands pretty much smack dab on top of the trukk (only a 3" scatter) and manages to wreck it, forcing all the Tankbustas to pile out.

Top of 2


"Sir...are you sure these are supposed to be orks?!"

In the Ork turn, the Deffkoptas swoop around the power plant and gun down the mortar team and the MoO. They, however, shoot themselves out of assault and fail to close in. The Tankbustas struggle with climbing over the building and fire their rokkits at the Avenger, which jinks. That turns out to be unnecessary, though, as they miss with everything. The north mob of orks also try climbing the building, but get bogged down, as well (they really would have been better off just running around it). The Warboss's mob moves closer to my southern flank and are in possible assault range next turn.

Finally, the Lootas open up on the forward plasma team again and kill another 2. If you're keeping count, the casualties are 4 dead guardsmen to 19 dead orks plus a wrecked trukk. Ouch.

Bottom of 2


Turn 3
In turn 3, the rear plasma squad gets a Fire On My Target and obliterates the Deffkoptas in fiery plasma/autocannon/lasgun death. The forward plasma squad falls back to foil an assault next turn while Chainsaw Heidi shifts south and gets full range on the Warboss squad--Punisher cannon, Heavy Bolters, everything. 6-7 orks are reduced to salad dressing. In the north, the grenade launchers and lascannons (with a First Rank/Second Rank) manage to kill 2 orks from the north squad.

Finally, the Avenger still has enough accuracy to pick off both remaining Lootas, snapshots or no snapshots.

Top of 3


At this point, my opponent is pretty well demoralized. The building is proving to be a pivotal piece of terrain and he can't seem to get around it without being cut down by my guns. I point out to him that he has a real chance at assaulting some of my units if he declares a WAAAGH. So he does, and the Warboss's squad goes for it first, but they lose a guy to overwatch and then its a 12" charge and they don't make it. Then the northern mob goes for it--they're in good shape after their run and only need to roll a 5 or 6 to make assault. I then proceed to roll my best non-Tau overwatch roll of my life and pick off 3 (!) of the lead orks with krak grenades, lasguns, and a lascannon. This extends the charge range to about 7", which is still doable. Of course, not if they roll Snake Eyes, which they totally did. Even with the 'Ere We Go re-roll, it was a 4" charge. No good.

Finally, a few Tankbustas climb atop the building and fire some rokkits at my tank. No damage.

Bottom of 3


By this point, my opponent is pretty bummed out and I clearly see what's going to happen next: the Punisher rips apart one mob of boyz while my infantry does for the other, all while falling back. Next turn the Tankbustas do almost nothing to me and, at the top of turn 5, the Avenger comes back and everybody blows them off the building with minimal trouble. Game over. As it's late, my opponent concedes. Even though he's got a bunch of models on the table, they are in no position to hurt me and can't withstand another turn or two of me punishing them.

Final Score
Vostroyans: 4 (1 objective + First Blood)
Orks: 3 (1 objective)

Post-Mortem
Hmmm...this game was something of a total blowout and, therefore, as a "teaching" game it totally failed. I don't think my opponent had a really good time and that sucks. Why did this happen? Well, a couple things:

1) Bringing a Punisher was an act of pure cruelty against a novice ork force. I brought it because I wanted to use it--its one of my newer models, after all--but an AV14 dedicated antipersonnel tank is pretty horrible against greenskins. Shouldn't have done it if the idea was to have an even match.
2) My opponent spent too much time messing around with that stupid building. He would have been better off, I think, charging straight at me at top speed and ignoring cover rather than making difficult terrain rolls to climb on top of that thing. The Tankbustas were rendered irrelevant in this game as a result of the terrain. This was surprising to me, since I felt, if anything, the terrain was offering him plenty of advantages.
3) Army list! The Ork Army List wasn't playing to any particular strength of the orks. It wasn't a fast list nor was it a tough list. He either needed more trukks and bikes OR things like kans and deffdredds. A pair of small-ish mobs and one trukk didn't work well. 5 Lootas were basically a waste of points. The Koptas should have been taken separately, which would have made them much harder to deal with. 

Next time I play him, I'm going to do things a bit differently. I won't be taking the Punisher, for starters (I'll probably give him a break from the IG entirely, which has been killing him pretty effectively for the past two exhibition games). I'll also take the time to play the game more open than I have--explaining my plans as I do them, pointing out the opportunities he has, and so on. Also I'll give him the first turn. As of right now he's convinced that if you go first you automatically win, which is very much not the case and I should make that clear to him.

Anyway, I wish the game had been a little less lopsided, but I did enjoy playing anyway. Thanks for reading and thanks, as always, to my opponent!

Offline Calamity

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Re: 750 Point Vostroyan AM Vs Orks: Big Guns Never Tire
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2016, 04:16:16 PM »
Whilst it is great to see the guard own those filthy greenskins, I completely understand where you're coming from.  This is a big worry I have my my friend who's returning to the game.  It won't be much fun for him if I have hellhounds removing a Skitarii squad a turn.

Which tank would you take next time?  Would you still take a tank at all?  And your opponent can use proxies to try out various ork army styles (cult of speed, hoard of boys etc).  Would you consider helping your friend build their list?


Offline Wyddr

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Re: 750 Point Vostroyan AM Vs Orks: Big Guns Never Tire
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2016, 10:05:00 PM »
I could switch out the tank for those lousy Armored Sentinels and a Chimera.

The thing is, I don't want to play to *lose,* but I also need to play so that the guy can learn. If I just nuke him off the board, he learns only that the game is frustrating and mysterious.

I think I'm going to try two things. First, I'm going to play a more "open" game than I have been. This guy is an experience gamer and did pretty well in our last two outings (with Marines), so I was giving him a bit more leeway to choose his own way this time. Let's face it: learning Orks is a rough, rough ride right now. Next time I'll tell him what I'm doing and why I'm doing it and explain to him how his moves will make me react. Hopefully this gets him better at the game.

Also I'm going to start bringing lists that are more fun than actively dangerous. I've got an idea for a Tzeentch Daemon list that I'd like to try out, so I'll give that a whirl. It might not be terrible, but it certainly will be less dangerous than the IG lists I've been playing. It should be fun for both of us then, and that's the key. 

Offline dog_of_war

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Re: 750 Point Vostroyan AM Vs Orks: Big Guns Never Tire
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2016, 09:16:55 AM »
Great report as always. I very much agree with your analysis of the ork force. Taking the koptas individually would have allowed them to survive a few more turns. The could have also outflanked and also used their jink save to try and survive. Against guard they are brutal in combat, especially with the extra T. Give them some buzzsaws and they would have been a force to he reckoned with. The lootas were positioned way to close. With their range, they should have been setup as far away from the guard as possible. If anything was a point sink it was the tankbustas. I would drop those for more lootas or considering you took a flyer, the orks could have used one themselves. I hope your opponent tries the greenskins again in the future, but I totally understand how demoralizing they can be when you first try them out, especially in 7th edition.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: 750 Point Vostroyan AM Vs Orks: Big Guns Never Tire
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2016, 10:34:41 AM »
A Jink save wasn't going to do much for the Koptas, given that my CCS can give Ignores Cover to any infantry unit it pleases.

I see the Tank Hunters as useful if only because they were the only plausible threat to the Punisher. More Lootas further away would have helped, but his LOS to me was severely restricted by the terrain, which made things awkward for him. There was more to this battle than simply the list.

That said, I don't think Lootas should be taken in groups smaller than 10, myself. I also think spreading around Klaws and Buzzsaws would have been a good idea. Then again, I don't play orks and haven't played against them much since 5th edition (when they were awesome), so my advice is somewhat theoretical.

Offline dog_of_war

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Re: 750 Point Vostroyan AM Vs Orks: Big Guns Never Tire
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2016, 04:01:31 PM »
The ignore cover could have only stopped one jink save, if he had split the koptas, so it's still useful in that respect.

If I'm not mistaken, any killsaw or powerklaw would do the same work as the tankbustas and are much easier to keep alive, unless the punisher has a high rear armour as well.

If your opponent is up to try orks again, I'm sure the ork community here would be more than happy to build some guard stomping lists.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: 750 Point Vostroyan AM Vs Orks: Big Guns Never Tire
« Reply #6 on: February 1, 2016, 07:47:54 AM »
The Punisher has higher than average rear armor, yeah. Still, a power klaw nob could do a number on it. Tankbusta bombs would be preferrable, but at that point they're kinda overkill.

Yeah, 3 individual koptas woud have been tougher, no doubt. I could have killed 2, but probably not 3 before they closed in.

Offline dog_of_war

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Re: 750 Point Vostroyan AM Vs Orks: Big Guns Never Tire
« Reply #7 on: February 1, 2016, 12:58:44 PM »
Three individual koptas would have certainly drawn more of your firepower and kept the boyz safer, as well.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: 750 Point Vostroyan AM Vs Orks: Big Guns Never Tire
« Reply #8 on: February 1, 2016, 01:23:20 PM »
Three individual koptas would have certainly drawn more of your firepower and kept the boyz safer, as well.

Yeah, he probably would have had his lootas for a turn longer, at any rate. Managing target priority is one of those deceptively complex aspects of the game. How to tie up enemy guns has got to be a chief aspect of Ork strategy.

Offline Calamity

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Re: 750 Point Vostroyan AM Vs Orks: Big Guns Never Tire
« Reply #9 on: February 1, 2016, 01:35:06 PM »
I think you should try to encourage them to try this list again against your same list but with these simple tweaks added in.  Combined with advice from yourself in how to control it, maybe they'll do better this time around.  I like to think it's not what's on your list that counts, but how you use it.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: 750 Point Vostroyan AM Vs Orks: Big Guns Never Tire
« Reply #10 on: February 1, 2016, 02:21:29 PM »
I like to think it's not what's on your list that counts, but how you use it.

The trick is that it's a little bit of both!  ;)

Offline Calamity

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Re: 750 Point Vostroyan AM Vs Orks: Big Guns Never Tire
« Reply #11 on: February 1, 2016, 02:22:26 PM »
That's a better way to put it.  ;)

 


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