Topic: Please, I need help

[Abraxas]

I have always had trouble going to bed on time. As a kid I would want to stay up later... to do what, I don't know, but going to bed early did not interest me in the slightest. When I would lose "The Battle of the Bedtimes" with my parents, I secretly fought them from inside my room, staying awake, stareing at the cieling waiting to fall asleep.

They would come in at 11 or 12 (after having been sent to bed at 9 that night) to grab laundry... at which point I would say, "hello" usually shocking them. They would tell me to go to bed...

After a while I stopped saying, "hello" and pretended I was asleep in order to avoid their ire.

Well, this was years ago. I did it in my early years of elementary school and middle school. It got worse in high school with me finally falling asleep around 2 or 3. I would sleep for 3 or 4 hours and wake up groggy, but none more than someone who only got 6 or 7 hours. I have since graduated high school and am now in my second year of college... and my sleeping problem has only gotten worse. Even before now, falling asleep before 3 was a Godsend... but I can't handle the last few weeks... especially the last few days unless I can get help.

From Friday night I finally got tired around 7AM saturday morning, sleeping till about noon. I woke up, watched TV ate, surfed the internet... and fell asleep again (finally) at noon sunday morning. I got a great 7 hours and woke up at 7PM. I did not sleep sunday night, much to my despair, cause I needed to be outside at 5:30AM for "Personal Training" (my school is regimented) program. I came back, showered and felt sick to my stomach. I forced down a bananna at breakfast, but did not eat again due to the extreme nausea I was experiencing. I went to my 8:30 class and kept having to leave to get "fresh air" lest I vomit. I went to the nurse and got some Pepto-bysmal (nausea/stomach/diherrea stuff) and powered on to my next class. I stayed a whole 3 minutes before I had to leave.

I couldn't take the pain anymore so I left and collapsed on my bed. I slept from noon to about 2(ish). I went to the school store and bought some Saltines, hoping that would help. It did and I moved on to my class at 3. I was able to sit through it, though it was in a larger room that was air conditioned, so I am sure that helped. I didn't have dinner and I tried going to sleep... no such luck. With less nausea (thankfully) I went to a doctor. My own personal physician nor no one I have seen will let me get a sleep aid.

I have tried EVERYTHING. I took NyQuil, Benedryl, Melatonin... tried breathing differenly when I slept, counting sheep, thinking about "nothing"... but NOTHING has worked. I have either adapted to them or they never worked in the first place.

I have come here to ask for people's assistence because this problem is affecting my health as well as my school work. I haven't eaten a good meal in weeks and I have missed 3 classes already in just the last few days. I can't keep doing this because my grades will suffer tremendously. Short of crying in front of a doctor (which I may do) is there anyway for me to sleep?

Two nights without sleep and tonight is not shaping to be much better. I have gotten a combined 12 or so hours of sleep in the last 72. I would chalk it up to mild insomnia or just bad luck... but going to bed late has been something I have always done...

I fear it will get worse and I will get sicker and sicker missing more and more classes... and I can't let this happen.

Please, I ask with every fiber in me, what can I do to sleep? It's not even so much that I want pills... but I need them. All the doctors I have seen are relunctant... which amazes me cause as a pharmaceutical technichian I gave out MANY prescriptions for Ambien and Lunesta...

Lunesta is even ADVERTIZED as being non-habit forming...

I just need to sleep... and I ask you to help me... please.

Sorry for the long post, and I hope it does not deter anyone from helping... I just need to sleep...

[Paladin-Jut]

You need to find some support groups in your area, fill out your name tag as: Cornelius and just let yourself cry. That will do the trick.

What are your religious/spiritual views or leanings? (Just curious, as there could be some help in this area, depending on your views)



Jut



p.s.: "And for the first time in a long time, I cried . . . . . . . . . . Babies don't sleep this good!"

[Mr Wall]

I find I'm the same if I havent exercised during the day.  The best thing I ever did was get into a regular routine of exercise.  7-8/9 i'm in the gym.  by the time i've got home, cooked dinner and messed around on the internet for awhile i'm ready to drop, usually about 11ish.

May suit you or not but I found it helps my sleep, my energy levels and my overall fitness.

[Dux Aurelius Elysius]

Exercise, eat properly, listen to soft music while you're in bed.  Exercise helps your body slow itself down, eating properly generally seems to help with ... everything and I find listening to music helps me take my mind off things (as opposed to "thinking of nothing" which just means you're concentrating on "nothing" and keeping your mind active).  Listening to music disengages me.

[ersatzkommando]

Are you sleepless without any reason?
It seems you sleep less than 6 hours/night. Do you drink a lot caffeinated or sugary drinks during the evening? Are you worried/stressed/agitated? Exercise may help if you have too much spare energy but if you are tired mentally and physically, yet can't sleep it could be something else. It seems you've always had these sleeping habits so it's unlikely to be dangerous. But I still think you should see a doctor as it bothers you.

The drugs you've tried, they're american brand names, melatonin I recognise but the others not, what substances are they?

When I'm nervous and agitated I sometimes take 25mg hydroxyzin. It's actually a histamine receptor antagonist and mainly used to reduce itching but it has calming effect too. It's a "non-abuse" substance and it helps me sleep when I otherwise cannot.

[Killing Time]

I would have to side with Mr Wall and Touched on this one.
Regular exercise is the way to go.

Get into a routine of going to the gym or going for a run....whatever you like, but for an hour or so in the early evening. It'll help you relax and get a lot of the unwanted adrenaline and cortisol (stress hormone) out of your body.
Then eat properly (you'll be hungry, believe me) and drink plenty of water to help flush all the crappy hormones out of your system.
Take a shower or bath a couple of hours before you want to go to bed. The warm water will help dilate your blood vessels and thus lower your blood pressure. It'll have the added bonus of making you smell nice after your exercise.
(Though if you do it too soon before bedtime it'll just wake you up).

I think a lot of your problem is that you are trying so hard to get to sleep that you're keeping yourself awake. It's sort of a vicious circle. The more tired you become, the more stressed you get at not sleeping, and it's the stress that's keeping you awake.

Calming music may also help. Nothing with lyrics as you'll end up just trying to sing along.
Obviously caffeinated drinks like coffee, tea and coke are all out, even early in the day to keep you awake after another crappy night. Caffeine stays in the system for a long time in some people so it's just going to exacerbate the problem.

Try not to go down the drug route. Even over the counter drugs can become habit forming and in the end they're just masking the symptoms rather than addressing the root of the problem.

It seems like you've been training yourself to be an insomniac since you were young and you've now got get your body to un-learn all the bad habits you've given it.
It was a perverse sense of discipline that got you into this state and so I'd suggest you focus that discipline more constructively to get you out of it.

Good luck and sweet dreams.

Dizzy

[Abraxas]

Thanks guys.

You need to find some support groups in your area, fill out your name tag as: Cornelius and just let yourself cry. That will do the trick.

What are your religious/spiritual views or leanings? (Just curious, as there could be some help in this area, depending on your views)

God, what a good book that was. The movie was ok... the book was so much better.

Atheist... if that helps.

I find I'm the same if I havent exercised during the day.  The best thing I ever did was get into a regular routine of exercise.  7-8/9 i'm in the gym.  by the time i've got home, cooked dinner and messed around on the internet for awhile i'm ready to drop, usually about 11ish.

May suit you or not but I found it helps my sleep, my energy levels and my overall fitness.

Exercise, eat properly, listen to soft music while you're in bed.  Exercise helps your body slow itself down, eating properly generally seems to help with ... everything and I find listening to music helps me take my mind off things (as opposed to "thinking of nothing" which just means you're concentrating on "nothing" and keeping your mind active).  Listening to music disengages me.

I would have to side with Mr Wall and Touched on this one.
Regular exercise is the way to go.

Get into a routine of going to the gym or going for a run....whatever you like, but for an hour or so in the early evening. It'll help you relax and get a lot of the unwanted adrenaline and cortisol (stress hormone) out of your body.
Then eat properly (you'll be hungry, believe me) and drink plenty of water to help flush all the crappy hormones out of your system.

I was afraid that exercize would be suggested...

I am not the healthiest individual. I don't regulary excercize but I am not UN-healthy. I am kinda skinny without any actual muscle... so going to the gym is a good way to embaress myself.

My school is a bit of a "jock" haven... and the last thing I need to be doing is struggeling on the bench press with an empty bar...

Running might work... but I am aweful at distance. I could probably beat most of the people at my school in a short run (I am VERY fast [one redeaming quality]) but distance kills me. My groin is killing me after just running a mile and half...

Now that I think about it... physically, I am horribly out of shape but I am too afraid to work out in front of other people cause I know I am going to embaress myself.

For now... let's say that isn't an option. However, after the Physical Training thing we had monday I wasn't the least bit tired. It was about 45 minutes of push-ups and sit-ups and then the mile and half run... and I still didn't sleep. My room mate did... but I was up...

Take a shower or bath a couple of hours before you want to go to bed. The warm water will help dilate your blood vessels and thus lower your blood pressure. It'll have the added bonus of making you smell nice after your exercise.
(Though if you do it too soon before bedtime it'll just wake you up).

I think a lot of your problem is that you are trying so hard to get to sleep that you're keeping yourself awake. It's sort of a vicious circle. The more tired you become, the more stressed you get at not sleeping, and it's the stress that's keeping you awake.

Calming music may also help. Nothing with lyrics as you'll end up just trying to sing along.
Obviously caffeinated drinks like coffee, tea and coke are all out, even early in the day to keep you awake after another crappy night. Caffeine stays in the system for a long time in some people so it's just going to exacerbate the problem.

Try not to go down the drug route. Even over the counter drugs can become habit forming and in the end they're just masking the symptoms rather than addressing the root of the problem.

It seems like you've been training yourself to be an insomniac since you were young and you've now got get your body to un-learn all the bad habits you've given it.
It was a perverse sense of discipline that got you into this state and so I'd suggest you focus that discipline more constructively to get you out of it.

Good luck and sweet dreams.

Dizzy

I have always teken showers before bed (I despise going to bed dirty) and music distracts me cause I am thinking about it too much. I have lots of orchestral/instrumental stuff... but it hasn't helped. I can't listen to it out loud cause of my room mate and my CD player distracts me cause the music is right in my ear, rather than around my body...

I think your absokutely right about the highlighted section... I just hope I can. It seems like it was easier to develop this "habit" then it was to break. Now I vaguely understand what smokers go through to quit.

Are you sleepless without any reason?
It seems you sleep less than 6 hours/night. Do you drink a lot caffeinated or sugary drinks during the evening? Are you worried/stressed/agitated? Exercise may help if you have too much spare energy but if you are tired mentally and physically, yet can't sleep it could be something else. It seems you've always had these sleeping habits so it's unlikely to be dangerous. But I still think you should see a doctor as it bothers you.

I don't drink coffee (ever) cause I hate the taste and I take caffiene pills if I NEED them... which is once a month (if that). They usually give me gas (embarressing ) so I avoid taking them whenever possible, waking up "natrually".

The drugs you've tried, they're american brand names, melatonin I recognise but the others not, what substances are they?

The others are cold medicines with ingrdients to bring about sleep. They worked for a little while... but I think my body adapted cause the "safe" dose didn't do anything... and I didn't eperiment with "unsafe" doses like I did with the Melatonin.

When I'm nervous and agitated I sometimes take 25mg hydroxyzin. It's actually a histamine receptor antagonist and mainly used to reduce itching but it has calming effect too. It's a "non-abuse" substance and it helps me sleep when I otherwise cannot.

That may be what was in the NyQuil and Benedryl... but I will look into it.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for all your help so far. I tried a couple of them... and it looks like my only option is to exercize (grumble, grumble). I forgot to mention I am lazy...

I haven't been lazy all my life... just the last fiew years. I go to a college out-of-state and haven't made too many friends (my problem) so I don't go out much...

[Mud Man!]

(I'm Catholic, so I can say this)

Go to Church. You'll be asleep in like two minutes.

I'm serious.

[Fury]

I happen to have similar problem, though not quite as severe. Most of it I attribute to the fact that I work a second shift, 10am-9pm due to the nature of my job, meaning I routinely go to bed at 2-3...but I sleep pretty well, and get up around 9-10 am every day.

I also smoke (stimulant) drink a lot of coffee (stimulant) and happen to have a very active mind, meaning my mind is spinnig all  the time, unless I just wear out or turn it off.

I think the "Fight Club" comparison is not far off. If your mind is active, your body won't want to rest. If your cortisol or stress levels are elevated, as much as you may want to sleep, your mind isn't allowing you to.

You're young still, so getting into a routine is the biggest thing. Don't stress at night, tell yourself anyting you are thinking about today can wait until tomorrow and try meditation. Clear your mind, and observe thoughts as opposed to comprehending them.

Now grasshopper, go forth and kick some ass...Ralph Macchio style.

[Mr Wall]

OK, I just want to make sure I get this straight.

You don't want to exercise because it could be embaressing in front of other people but of course the more you exercise the more it becomes less embarressing and very quickly actually something your proud of.  And lets not forget that it is proven to help you sleep better which by the sound of it would be a BIG help to you.

I know you say you suck at distance and your better at short distance running.  BUT the idea is to do what you suck at, or not so much but more what will make you hurt and ache, it means its working and when you feel like that is when you are definately going to sleep your best.

Your call dude but I had a similar problem and a exercise routine helped me get a regular sleeping pattern (with the added benefit I am now no longer embarressed to have my shirt off in front of people).

[Locarno]

'Excercise' doesn't have to mean gym or track.

I dislike both and have a personal rule that I don't do exercise for the hell of it unless I enjoy what I'm doing. However, that still leaves swimming, badminton, fencing, kendo - I'm not sure what sports there are out in your area, but I'm sure there are some, and there'll be something you enjoy.

And you can probably find a local club not affiliated with your school that's a good match in starting level, and not 'jock-centric'.

[Killing Time]

As stated, exercise can be anything you fancy, really.
You don't have to be pumping iron with the monkeys in the gym.

Believe me, I also suck at long distance, but earlier in the year I completed a 15km stage in a group marathon relay with a bunch of my friends. And I did it in way under the average time for the group. Something I was (and still am) very proud of.
Just start off slow. A very light jog, barely above a bouncing walk and try and get half an hour or 45 minutes.
Keep this up for a few weeks and you'd be really surprised at how quickly your heart, lungs and legs respond to the challenge.
Give it a few months and you'll feel really really good.

You don't want to exercise because it could be embaressing in front of other people but of course the more you exercise the more it becomes less embarressing and very quickly actually something your proud of.  And lets not forget that it is proven to help you sleep better which by the sound of it would be a BIG help to you.

I whole heartedly agree with this.

Dizzy

[faithlessmonkeigh]

From waht you think are the reasons and the history behind this, it seems like the problem is psychological my friend.

i would recommend a doctor - (just dont let him prescribe you a million different pills - some doctors are like that.) ask for practical advice he can give you.

insomnia is not the innability to sleep, it is the innabililty to fall asleep before a certain time of the night.

look up fatal insomnia, its a condition - its nasty: i really hope you dont have it.

but speak to a professional or your parents

and whats your diet by the way?
drink lots of water, nothing else, and eat at regular times everyday: get your body into a routine.

faithless

[Abraxas]

You don't want to exercise because it could be embaressing in front of other people but of course the more you exercise the more it becomes less embarressing and very quickly actually something your proud of.  And lets not forget that it is proven to help you sleep better which by the sound of it would be a BIG help to you.

Damn it, don't be so logical.

'Excercise' doesn't have to mean gym or track.

As stated, exercise can be anything you fancy, really.
You don't have to be pumping iron with the monkeys in the gym.

No... I guess not...

I may start going to the pool on "free swim" nights. First I need to find someone who will go with me... then I have to get my bathing suit from home...

[curse my poor memory]

insomnia is not the innability to sleep, it is the innabililty to fall asleep before a certain time of the night.

look up fatal insomnia, its a condition - its nasty: i really hope you dont have it.

God... I hope not either. Now I deffinately WON'T be getting any sleep.

but speak to a professional or your parents

and whats your diet by the way?
drink lots of water, nothing else, and eat at regular times everyday: get your body into a routine.

Doctors I have told... but not my parents. They think I just stay up too late, but if they foud this out... they are the kind of parents that would blame the school and make me leave.

As for my diet... I don't eat like normal people.I eat when I am hungry... and college food isn't exactly the most healthy (or satisfying) food in the world.

Basically, I don't have a "diet".

I am going to look into swimming as a possible solution. It's always something I liked and I love the water... thanks for bringing something that should have been pain stakingly obvious to my attention.

[Mr Wall]

Swimming is usually the worst but has the potential to the best of exercises that you can do.

Basically far too many people swim gently, dont push themselves and then congratulate themselves for exercising.  This does nothing.

When done properly swimming can use muscles that usally don't get a work out and increase your aerobic ability, stamina and very quickly improve your muscle tone (which always goes down well with the fairer sex).  You need to make your muscles burn when you swim, you can't get away with just doing it till your slightly tired.  this won't help you sleep or improve your fitness.

With exercise the phrase "no pain no gain" has never been more true, especially to tire yourself out to get to sleep at a reasonable time.

the good news is the more you do it the easier it becomes to push yourself, the less it hurts, the better you look and of course because you have got into the routine of sleeping at a regular time the easier it will become even if you miss a days training.  You just need to make sure you have the discipline to push yourself for the first couple of months.

[Locarno]

I am going to look into swimming as a possible solution. It's always something I liked and I love the water... thanks for bringing something that should have been pain stakingly obvious to my attention.

40konline - world reknowned experts on the bleedin' obvious - are pleased to be of service...

You just need to make sure you have the discipline to push yourself for the first couple of months.

Agreed. An excercise partner really helps here, so that's a good plan.

'Diet' doesn't require you to eat at specific times - but if you're eating a lot of sugars your body gets a lot of fast-burning energy (unlike slower burning energy like carbohydrates or really slow-burning energy like fats), it's charged up and wan't to do something - which doesn't include sleeping.

Snacking little and often - if you're eating reasonably healthy stuff - is better for you than single big meals anyway.

However, the faithlessmonkeigh is right; getting yourself into a routine should help convince your body 'and now it's time to sleep, ok?'

Especially if you are having a decent sized meal - it's normal to feel a bit torporific after a heavy meal, that can easily become sleep.


Essentially, go swimming, get yourself knackered, come home, have a good hot meal - you'll feel like it after the swim, anyway, and you'll have as good a chance of sleeping as you'll get.

You also might want to look into somthing like meditation/self hypnosis; it's not sleep but it will get you relaxed and help you not think about things, which is going to be a good start. Plus it doesn't involve pumping yourself full of prescription pills.

[Granite Slam]

   On the subject of eating habits rather than actual diet remember the following: Breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince and dine like a pauper. The reason for this is that a big meal early on will set you up for the day, if you don't have time for a large breakfast then eat something substantial and take a slightly larger lunch. You can then gauge how much to eat at lunch by knowing how hungry you are at the time and how active your afternoon is likely to be. Then at dinner all you are needing is enough food to keep you going until about midnight (if you were active all the way through) - that way you won't be hungry until the morning when you can start again.
   Whilst eating a large amount does make you sleepy this is only temporary to allow you to digest the food before becoming active again, if you eat a large amount for dinner then you will have a lot of energy through the evening.

   On the subject of excercise, if you are having trouble finding an excercise partner then consider running a little more seriously. If you are fast over short distances but cannot handle longer ones then that is an indication of a lack of stammina. Thankfully stammina is relatively easy to build. If you don't want to look (in your own mind) silly by jogging at a walking pace then don't, if you have a number of hills around where you live then walk them in a circuit, 3-4 miles is enough, average walking pace is about 3-4 miles per hour for a good cardio-vascular workout aim for 15 minutes per mile. This is the 4 mph limit but with the hills you are going to be giving yourself a good push. Then keep pushing yourself and bring the time down, at some point you will realise that you can't walk any faster without actually running/jogging and that this speed no longer gives you a good burn - that is when you break out the running shoes and track pants and can start working up the distances.
   The good thing about walking as a start is that you can do it in everyday clothing and a comfy pair of footwear (doesn't even have to be sneakers/runners), just grab your cd player and headphones and away you go. Not only that, but as with any other cardio-vascular workout, you will also learn to control your breathing which is the basis for all calming/relaxing excercises which you will be able to employ if you need extra help getting to sleep occasionally.

-S

[Concolor]

Have you tried seeing a doctor?

[Abraxas]

You mean I have to WORK when I swim? I was hoiping to strap on some booties, maybe a some flippers and just doggy paddle for a couple of minutes .

Yeah... but first I need to find a friend who is interested ...

As for my food... I usually eat fruits at my school (banannas/cantalopes) and a bowl or two of cereal (Capt. Crunch). It's either that or powdered eggs (add water and you have insta-scrambled eggs) or a plate of bricks (aka french toast). It's also at 6:45 in the morning...

Lunch is slightly better... either a wrap of some kind or a chef's salad.

Dinner... not so good. Usually a sub of some kind or whatever mystery meat they have on the Mess Deck.

Have you tried seeing a doctor?

Yeah... they just reccomend things (usually things I have tried). One suggested a "sleep study" but my school is regimented with formation every morning and I am only allowed to leave campus 1 day a week... so I don't know if that will work.

[Kitsune Tsuki]

Chamomile tea.  I can never sleep before some big event, like school.  You don't feel sleepy, but it helps you sleep comfortably.  I think chai would help as well.  That might help.  I use to stay up late, but simply by going to bed earlier.  It might help as well.