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Offline Dread

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shining spears
« on: June 13, 2016, 10:56:31 PM »
Is anyone using them? I want to do conversions but not if the points for them aren'the worth it. I do own 2 units of 4 of the old ones but the feel of them along side of the new jet bike models just doesn't work, the clunkyNess look has always annoyed me. So what is the concensus' thoughts?
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Offline Fenris

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Re: shining spears
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2016, 02:25:50 AM »
They can be used in specific builds but are not very competitive in general, due to a couple of things.
1. They are CC oriented, and 7th ed is still focused on shooting.
2. They don't survive any better than windriders.
3. Their special ability to gain cover without having to snapfire next turn is rather useless for a unit that is not very shooty.
4. Their main weapon may sometimes even be nerfed by rules lawyers, that say they can't both shoot it and use it in CC the same turn, which would make them utterly useless.
5. Reserving or outflanking has never been all that powerful, especially since you can no longer assault from reserves,normally.
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Offline Cavalier

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Re: shining spears
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2016, 07:07:37 AM »
Ibushi has used them extensively in the past and to great success. He ran just a unit of 3, outflanked to blow up Rhinos and whatnot and then would use jetbike moves to get them out of trouble and assault the next turn. If I remember right it was all about the Exarch. He didn't really care if the wing-men lived or died, he would use the Exarch to go and hunt down 5 man combat squads which prevail in Battle Company lists.

My counts-as Seer Council is going to double as a unit of Shining Spears. I personally like them. I've had such great success with my Scorpions... just waiting, waiting and then pouncing that I'm feeling really emboldened towards running the Spears. The way I plan on running them is probably holding them back till mid-game (possibly even reserving them to keep them out of trouble) then when the enemy is trying to get objectives or is reaching my lines send them out alongside the Scorpions to batter back my opponent or clear the way for objective grabbing late game.


Led by a a decked out Autarch or Corsair Prince I think they should be very good at clearing away things like big units of Necron Warriors, Space Marines, or even Ad. Mech Destroyers etc. Freeing up my Laser Bikes, Wraithknight, Hornets, whatever to focus on the big scary units.

People are having such great success with DE Reavers, and Shining Spears are not far behind IMO.
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Offline haunt

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Re: shining spears
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2016, 01:24:04 PM »
Honestly, Dread most folks just take a unit of Shining Spears, for they're collection and as a fast unit able to go along with any Jetbike Army or Aspect Host Army.

I find Shining Spears are usable for light vehicle or transport hunting along with sweeping MSUs not Heavy units like Terminators nor MC. IF you use it against those it's for a desperate measure.
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Offline magenb

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Re: shining spears
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2016, 05:10:00 PM »
SS are good, but situational, which can mean a good lot of point invested for little return on some games. A full unit is difficult to keep alive as it is hard to hide, this plus my opponent didn't know what they were and just saw a fast moving mass so unloaded into it. Smaller units seems to be the way to go.

If I take them now, its to tank hunt, I don't like going after transports with them as generally the unit inside survives and just shoots the crap out of them once the transports down. We have alot of other ways to deal with Rhino's etc.

Can also be very useful as a clean up crew against troop classes, especially with a banshe masked Autarch.

A biker council does a very similar role but does most of it a little better these days. which may change with the next codex/suplement/rule set.

Haunt is right though, they only ended up in  my army as a collection piece as my long term goal is to have a full unit of everything.

Offline Dread

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Re: shining spears
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2016, 08:48:59 PM »
Thanks everyone. All great points. I do plan to convert them but right now i'm doing the decked out autarch/prince conversion. Tomorrow night I have a game and plan on using my ss with her, give 'em a try.
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Offline haunt

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Re: shining spears
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2016, 11:39:26 PM »
Just don't forget that they do shoot those Torrent style hit and lance then assault. Make sure you remember those as most folks forget that.

I do use 2-3 units of 5-6 (6 is the Autarch, since they can be armed with a Laser Lance.)

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Offline Dread

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Re: shining spears
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2016, 12:46:00 AM »
Thanks for that haunt, I will remember that.
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Offline sunstrider

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Re: shining spears
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2016, 03:18:57 PM »
Honorable mention to the Shadow Spectres Phoenix Lord, Irillyth, who does far better in units of shining spears than he does in units of his own aspect. He has a very similar loadout to a shining spear and his special rules and the shining spears special rules VERY HIGHLY compliment each other. If you have the second edition of Doom of Mymeara I highly recommend you check out his rules/get his model for running them together.

The only drawback is that Irillyth is jet pack infantry and the shining spears are jetbikes, so their movement distance doesn't match up perfectly. Other than that, the unit hits harder than a wraithlord and is far more threatening at range.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 03:20:39 PM by sunstrider »

Offline magenb

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Re: shining spears
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2016, 05:11:18 PM »
4. Their main weapon may sometimes even be nerfed by rules lawyers, that say they can't both shoot it and use it in CC the same turn, which would make them utterly useless.

The draft FAQ confirms you can both shoot and assault with it :)
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: shining spears
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2016, 08:21:30 PM »
"Confirms."

Nothing is truly confirmed until they come out with the official FAQ.
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Offline Dread

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Re: shining spears
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2016, 11:49:03 PM »
Well the way I see, shooting is 1 phase and cc is another. If you fire a pistol in shooting phase and then get +1 attack in cc?! Plus jet bikes are relentless. So... but
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Offline Hannibal.Lictor

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Re: shining spears
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2016, 11:11:54 AM »
The biggest issue with SS for me is the loss of Hit and Run. Once you get into a second round of CC they are very expensive fancy wind riders.

Offline TheEldarGuy

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Re: shining spears
« Reply #13 on: August 1, 2016, 03:28:44 AM »
Shining Spears in an Aspect host with + to the WS is a great way to say 'Hi, how you doing?". I often attach the Autarch Jetbikes and Laser lance just to make use of the Warlord Trait. 1st turn position, next turn smack stuff.

You have a Ghostkeel problem? Not any more, the cost may be up there with Wraithknight points, but people tend to underestimate Spears the first time. They do all the damage to all the right things, charge a vehicle, smack a monstrous creature squad, eliminate a swarm...

I have about 19 of them and I will admit that's probably too many to own, but I can't help it. These guys have always been my cornerstone heavy cavalry option.

Offline Iluvhir Strafermeyer

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Re: shining spears
« Reply #14 on: August 4, 2016, 05:31:35 AM »
The Shining Spears is a great multi-purpose unit - they really are among our most versatile units. However, that's also their problem; Eldar are specialists.
Reapers are better at shooting, and Scorpions are better at CC. Shining Spears land somewhere in the middle - capable of doing both rather well, but not splendidly.
You don't want to use them as a shooting platform; their short range puts them in great peril and their weapons aren't powerful enough to make it worth the risk. The idea is to use them for their charge, as you may already have figured out. A decent shooting attack followed by a powerful charge. Make no mistake - their charge is devastating to almost any target. However, I often find that I'm never in range to use the lances to shoot. They have such a short range that it's just not gonna happen very often. I find myself forced to use the catapults more often than not.
Then there is the problem of weak assault rules in 7th ed - any dedicated CC unit worth taking requires some form of special rule that allows it an easier charge. Scorpions, for instance, have Fleet. The complete randomness of the current rules means you end up not even being able to charge half the times, which is disastrous for CC units. That's the rules that are lackluster, however, not the Spears themselves.

All that being said - personally, I love them! I use them regularly with decent results, mostly due to their versatility. It is also a great unit to put an Autarch with if you're running with one. They do work fine without one, and it's a risk putting an IC with them as it makes your opponent more likely to shoot at them (and they aren't tanky at all), but if you have an Autarch with a lance or another powerful weapon leading them they will manage to dish out the necessary damage on the charge (which is what they're all about - they are weak in subsequent rounds of assault) quite a while longer. This is because you can afford to lose members of the unit. Basically - as long as your Exarch and Autarch are alive, the unit is deadly.
In other words, without the Autarch the unit could potentially have better longevity, whereas they will remain viable longer with one. At least that's my experience.
Since 7th ed they are also worth their cost, which has seen a steady reduction since 4th ed (where they were hugely overpriced).

I suggest you try them out, but keep in mind that their ability to charge is restricted by the meta.
I would recommend that you don't trust them  blindly to make it into assault, unfortunately.
If your strategy revolves around charging something specific with a CC unit - take another, more reliable CC unit. Scorpions are my favourite for killing things that aren't too resilient. With a clawed Exarch there are few things they can't kill. If you are going to attack something sturdier, the Wraithblades are good, although they, too, may have a hard time getting in there.
You should always try to charge something, and remember that without the charge they are crap in CC. Don't get yourself charged! Use the speed of the bikes to make sure you're the one doing the charging, and don't charge units that you can't obliterate in the turn you charge, or, preferably, in your opponents following turn.
« Last Edit: August 4, 2016, 05:37:22 AM by Iluvhir Strafermeyer »
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Offline haunt

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Re: shining spears
« Reply #15 on: August 5, 2016, 01:55:22 AM »
Alright, it seems we have bombarded this subject with so much definition of what they can do that is so true. So I'll be brief and simplify this.

Shining Spears is what you use to break a CC melee roadblock or to destroy a small unit, since most folks will not sink too many points to this unit.

Melee roadblock means something of yours is trapped by a big unit that will make it forever for that unit to get out. (Ex a Wraithlord or Wraithknight engaged by a fearless mob of orks after you have killed off the nob leader.)
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Offline murgel

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Re: shining spears
« Reply #16 on: August 5, 2016, 05:49:27 AM »
Alright, it seems we have bombarded this subject with so much definition of what they can do that is so true. So I'll be brief and simplify this.

Shining Spears is what you use to break a CC melee roadblock or to destroy a small unit, since most folks will not sink too many points to this unit.

Melee roadblock means something of yours is trapped by a big unit that will make it forever for that unit to get out. (Ex a Wraithlord or Wraithknight engaged by a fearless mob of orks after you have killed off the nob leader.)

Agreed.
I also love the spears and use them this way.
I do the same with banshees but spears are way better because of their harder punch in the charge and because of their mobility. Where Banshees need to be part of your original setup for the CC the Spears can dart in from almost anywhere on the board and save the day.

The loss of H&R is bad but frankly I would like to have their continuing CC performance bettered over having it back.
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Offline Wyldhunt

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Re: shining spears
« Reply #17 on: August 5, 2016, 01:33:27 PM »
Honorable mention to the Shadow Spectres Phoenix Lord, Irillyth, who does far better in units of shining spears than he does in units of his own aspect. He has a very similar loadout to a shining spear and his special rules and the shining spears special rules VERY HIGHLY compliment each other. If you have the second edition of Doom of Mymeara I highly recommend you check out his rules/get his model for running them together.

The only drawback is that Irillyth is jet pack infantry and the shining spears are jetbikes, so their movement distance doesn't match up perfectly. Other than that, the unit hits harder than a wraithlord and is far more threatening at range.

How would you feel about using Baharroth along with them?  You'd lose some of your mobility, but he keeps up with them easily in the movement phase.  With his extreme movement speed, I could see him hopping into the unit on the turn you want to charge with them, then basically tanking overwatch for them and letting them hit & run out.  The blind rule on his sword might even help them endure the second round of combat before jumping out of the fight, and it might leave that unit blinded on your opponent's following turn. 

I've been using Shining Spears a bit recently. Just a small 3 man squad including a star lance exarch.  So far, I've had trouble delivering them to a target. I tend to play them too cautiously early on to keep them from dying before a target comes within charge range, but they become pretty unimpressive if they aren't charging in. I like them in theory. I just really miss their Hit & Run.

Offline Capamaru

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Re: shining spears
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2016, 05:51:52 AM »
Shinning spears aren't an assault unit but rather a counter assault unit. On their own they can't pull an assault against other armies dedicated assault units but with some help they can provide a lot on the table.
First of all they can act as an exarch delivery system to bust light and heavy transports. Their lances have the lance special rule so a LR is no problem to crack open in one round of shooting and then melee.
Consider joining with them an Autarch on bike with a laser lance and a banshee mask. Now they can assault marine units without fear of overwatch and can still go tank busting.
Finally if you join a FS with them they become a mini deathstar since psychic support adds greatly to survivability.
I have a unit of 4 (3+exarch) that are joined by my autarch and occasionally by my farseer. They will provide support against deep striking armies that aim for my jetbikes and they go hunting marines and vehicles otherwise.
They are a versatile unit something the eldar lack so I kinda feel they are great.
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