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Offline murgel

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FW Eldar stuff
« on: June 23, 2017, 05:53:15 PM »
Hi all,
has anybody, besides me seen the new FW Xenos book? And maybe noticed that there is no falcon serpent etc in it?
So the rules for them is only in the Index.

you can mix Corsairs, CWE etc. in any detachment because they have the keyword BUT
If I read this correctly corsairs can no longer use Serpent or falcons as transport because they have not the correct faction!!!!!

Besides that I have come to think that all FW models are more than ridiculously overpriced!
A basic Nightwing is short of 150 points! I shan't talk about the Warp hunter.

What are your feelings gents?


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Offline SeekingOne

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Re: FW Eldar stuff
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2017, 07:00:23 PM »
Hi all,
has anybody, besides me seen the new FW Xenos book? And maybe noticed that there is no falcon serpent etc in it?
So the rules for them is only in the Index.

you can mix Corsairs, CWE etc. in any detachment because they have the keyword BUT
If I read this correctly corsairs can no longer use Serpent or falcons as transport because they have not the correct faction!!!!!

Besides that I have come to think that all FW models are more than ridiculously overpriced!
A basic Nightwing is short of 150 points! I shan't talk about the Warp hunter.

What are your feelings gents?

I got it today, although didn't get a chance to study it thoroughly yet.
The units I did look up look sad though. Warp hunter is pretty much dead. Hornets are... well, they are near-dead too, the only question is whether it's really dead or near that, but not quite. I'm thinking of a unit of 3 with pulse and a Farseer to guide them when they move. But that would be over 400 pts not counting farseer... Feels questionable.
Out of the rest nothing struck me as potentially good too - except maybe Skatnach WK. It is still Asuryani, so can be Fortuned, and is therefore potentially viable.
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Offline magenb

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Re: FW Eldar stuff
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2017, 05:03:38 AM »
Initial read through thoughts:

no HQ options for Corsairs, so you can't really run a "corsair" formation.

Shadow Spectres finally look useful, real useful, might actually make the table for a change.

Hornets, more expensive, but their pulse lasers are very sweet, it would be looking at running them in a pair.

Warp Hunter, Eldar's unimpressive tanks continue their trend. Sure it can smite stuff but suffers from volume. Really this is an anti-tank tank.

Lynx, Sonic Lance now looks somewhat usefull. Not alot of shots for the Pulsar, kind of a mixed bag for anti-tank.

Cobra, Brings the pain, not alot of shorts but could strip alot of W's from titan's etc. Will be a contender for the LoW slot for sure.

Nightwing, not overly impressed, nice rule option, but nothing here for a must take.

Phoenix, has some nice options but again suffers from lack of volume in firepower and its weapons are heavies. It weapons kind of give it a strange roll. Hemlock is the better option here.

Revenant Titan, Pain bringer, it will not take much to start shutting it down, invul save based on movement is meh for its default load out.

Phantom Titan, Moving this model is a pain as in physically moving it around, so having Invul save based on move distance is just annoying. Single normal Heavy Weapon is still weird, why would you only mount one on this thing. Wraith Glaive is just brutal. And just like the its smaller WK, it has legs that would make Bruce Lee jealous.




Offline Katamari Damacy

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Re: FW Eldar stuff
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2017, 06:23:33 AM »
Since I have not read the book yet (and probably wont for quite a while), could someone share their thoughts on the Wraithseer?

I was looking forward to field this guy as a HQ with 2-3 Wraithlords and an Avatar.
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Offline magenb

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Re: FW Eldar stuff
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2017, 07:26:53 AM »
Since I have not read the book yet (and probably wont for quite a while), could someone share their thoughts on the Wraithseer?

I was looking forward to field this guy as a HQ with 2-3 Wraithlords and an Avatar.

Generally speaking, they are just a little better than a normal wraithlord.

They can make another Wraith Unit a little faster on advancing or charging.
or
They can make another Wraith Unit Negate Wounds and mortal wounds on a luck roll.
or
Negative Leadership bubble for enemies.

Has an Invul save, more wounds and attacks, melee weapon is slightly better against vehicles. Gets access to wraith shooting weapons (not scythe).

not bad for the points, especially considering the slot it takes up.



Offline Cavalier

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Re: FW Eldar stuff
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2017, 07:38:58 AM »
First impressions for me are... Corsair Skyreavers look freaking AMAZING. They are as fast as Eldar jetbikes and their access to weapons is insane. I for one will be taking these guys as troops ASAP. Their close-range fighting approach is bolstered by their overwatch/battlefocus move aka Reckless Abandon.

Clouddancers may be the way to go to get lances into the army going forward. The Eldar are in a desperate struggle for long range AT... these guys may be the platform.

The Hornets have definitley changed... but they still look very good. The Pulse Lasers have been nerfed much to my horror... Hornet Pulse Lasers are great... but not against vehicles which is what I used them for. The Bright Lance is the way of the future which cuts down on their volume of fire dramatically. However... the way I look at it is the game is very much different. Its time to throw out what you knew about 40k in 7th. These guys have a good amount of wounds, a good save, and with the right wargear are -2 to hit at range! I think these guys are gonna be very solid with lances. They need to be supported but they definitley fill a need for me.

Next up for me was the Warp Hunter. Despite being massivley expensive I think its worth it. Ranged AT is SUPER important to me as a player. Close ranged AT with the all the screening techniques that are going to become so essential to playing the game not something I want to be overly reliant on. The damage output looks very solid, is super high strength, doesn't require LOS and is on a big beefy platform. Also the flamer mode is back and looks very, very strong. Again... the game is so different. The cost of vehicles is astronomical compared to what they are. With lots of LOS I think this dude could be invaluable for being a mainline heavy hitter against knights and tanks. I'm gonna give this bad boy a run and see if its worth it.

The Skathatch Wraithknight.... looks like a FREAKING MONSTER. Deepstrike with inferno lances looks absolutley brutal. He's expensive as hell, but I think he's worth it. I gotta reconfigure my list to play with him... but its gonna happen. I think this guy is gonna be a mainstay of a lot of Eldar armies especially with ultra quick Corsairs filling out the troops slots.

My one big disappointment is the flyers. The Nightwing looks dead to me... as most flyers do. Anyone whose followed my bat-reps knows how much I loved my Nightwing. They needed more penalties to hit to make them worth it IMO. Sadly mine is being shelved unless I start to see a niche for him as I get into games.

Overall I'm very impressed. I love the Corsair Skyreavers and Clouddancers, the Hornets fill a good niche and look pretty essential. The Warp Hunter seems worth the gamble and the FW Wraithknight looks like a monster. I'd highly recommend this book to any Eldar players. I'm test running the Warp Hunter and a pair of Hornets today... I'll be writing up a bat-rep and post it in my project log for those interested. Can't wait to see how this plays out
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Offline Captain Krash

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Re: FW Eldar stuff
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2017, 09:10:46 AM »
But you missing a critical part Cavalier...they basically destroyed the Corsair list...I mean sure you can take a Generic Eldar HQ and say that's my "Baron" or Baroness" but still...

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Offline Sarkrim

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Re: FW Eldar stuff
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2017, 10:04:58 AM »
Cavalier, I'm the exact opposite on the Nightwing and Phoenix. For their price (dirt cheap) I'm going to be using them for close air support or hunting weakened armoured units or higher wound count infantry. Besides a flyer with an invul save is a good deal.

Also the Shadow Spectres and in part Irrylith, when I saw them I just sat there with a stupid grin and I'm actually going to be fielding all 16, 15 plus an exarch, I got.

Agreed on the knight, it looks scary enough to keep people honest. Also I don't know if you noticed, but you can take an inferno lance AND a deathshroud cannon now. It allows you to swap out either inferno lances or both of them with the deathshroud. I'm wondering if one of each will be the way to go now.

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: FW Eldar stuff
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2017, 03:21:42 PM »
I recently picked up a Revenant Titan for dirt cheap - mostly painted and assembled too!

Can some one who has the book tell me if the book is worth picking up to field this guy, or his is not really usable?
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline SeekingOne

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Re: FW Eldar stuff
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2017, 03:57:20 PM »
A question to you guys: are you reading the Nightwing rules so that it has 5+ invuln at any time when it's with retracted wings, or just when Advancing, or on all subsequent turns after it advanced at least once? To me looks like the latter, but maybe some subtle nuances of English grammar elude me...?
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Offline murgel

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Re: FW Eldar stuff
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2017, 04:01:53 PM »
I recently picked up a Revenant Titan for dirt cheap - mostly painted and assembled too!

Can some one who has the book tell me if the book is worth picking up to field this guy, or his is not really usable?

As the book is a very good price even if it is FW I can really recommend it.


My Impressions after a closer look:
- Corsair infantry looks very nice. The Jump stuff is great.
- Corsair bikes look as if they would replace my windriders completely. More flexible and decent in "CC" due to pistols
- My Hornets will need testing as they no longer can perform the role I bought them for. But currently the price tag is pulling me down massively.
- The Warp Hunters might just find a place. But mostly because I will be looking as I have a few.
- Both the Nightwing and the Phoenix will see board time. Because I beslubbering bought a lot of them and I don't care that FW gutted them. I will see my NW formations on the table, maybe.  :-[
- They forgot the stats for the Firestorm AA tank
- The Shadow spectres and the Knight will be a bad surprise for other players. I like them both. However the spectres changed purpose again. I don't like it when such things happen. A Unit has a purpose and it should stick to it because the fluff is written for that purpose and a unit should stay in the fluff.
- My super-heavies will go to the boxes or I will postpone buying them until further notice... They have value in the game but the points price tag is not worth discussing.

Summary:
All in all I am happy to have the book for this RL price.
Generally all units seem to have a tactical value, even if it is minute or horrifically  overpriced. I hate the costs assigned to the units and equipment, to me it feels like they did not put much thought in that.
I don't regret buying it but are slightly disappointed.

@Seeking one
I read it like this.
Operating with retracted wings gives you:
- Bonus for advancing (if you do so)
- Bonus invuln as long as wings are retracted (advancing or not)
- the Hard to hit rule
Operating with extended wings gives you
- the the easier shoot
- you loose Hard to hit.

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« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 07:32:58 PM by Irisado »
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Offline Sarkrim

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Re: FW Eldar stuff
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2017, 04:06:28 PM »
A question to you guys: are you reading the Nightwing rules so that it has 5+ invuln at any time when it's with retracted wings, or just when Advancing, or on all subsequent turns after it advanced at least once? To me looks like the latter, but maybe some subtle nuances of English grammar elude me...?

As long as you operate with retracted wings you gain 2 things: the advance bonus and the invul save, it specifically says you gain the invul save until you change to extended wings. It is a bit weirdly written, a period instead of that dash would have been better.

Offline magenb

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Re: FW Eldar stuff
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2017, 07:03:23 PM »
I recently picked up a Revenant Titan for dirt cheap - mostly painted and assembled too!

Can some one who has the book tell me if the book is worth picking up to field this guy, or his is not really usable?

It is not an easy call to field, it had a significant increase in point cost. While it can put out a good amount of damage, the fact it needs to keep moving given it weapon type and it quickly loses BS.

It is at a price point where you are going to have to think very carefully about how it works with the rest of the army.

Then there is the Invul save factor. You have to constantly move this thing around in big sweeps, its just unwieldy to do. The last apoc game I had, had so much on the table it would have been difficult to find a place to move it.

Offline Cavalier

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Re: FW Eldar stuff
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2017, 08:20:20 AM »
@Captain Krash- Hey bud yeah, totally aware of the lack of FW army list. Really disappointing to be sure. I feel like this was a BIG TIME rush job by FW. I think they left a lot of people really hanging... especially if you were rocking Void-Dreamers,Voidstorm, Balestrike, Ghostwalkers etc (like myself). Really unacceptable in my opinion. I know they are reeling from the death of Allen Bligh and the loss of some other head writers, but it doesn't feel like it would have been to hard to convert those units for 8th edition play. You can approximate a Corsair list though with a mix of DE, CWE and Harlie units though. Still I hear you big time. Especially when the Corsair units themselves look absolutley brilliant.

@Sarkrim- Wow you are absolutley right bud! Didn't even check the points... SUPER cheap. Well thats pretty dang encouraging. Might need to give the bad bird a whirl... Thanks for the headsup my friend!  ;D ;D ;D

@Everyone- So I got my first game of 8th edition in yesterday and I gotta say... the Hornets with Brightlances, and the Warp Hunter (with shuriken cannon) were MVP's of the game. Absolutley brilliant units. Hornets with vectored engines + crystal targetting matrix were fantastic. The Warp Hunter evaded trouble the entire game hiding out of LOS and just blasting units. Took out a Knight, Basilisk and a load of troops in shortened game (5 turns had to leave for time). They barely took any damage until turn 5. Vectored engines are SOOO good on both units especially the hornets who become ultra evasive. Really phenomenal. I'll have a bat-rep up soon in my project log for those interested.
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Offline Dread

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Re: FW Eldar stuff
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2017, 11:56:52 PM »
Great, I mean just great.now another book to buy. Just can't do it this time. I've had my FW flyers for so many years now going from asking permission to field them and those wacky deployment and turns flying on and of the board to finally getting some good rules to now needing yet another book. Times are just to hard now so mine will be benched til I can find some extra cash, now that's an illusive and mythical creature, extra huh.
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Offline magenb

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Re: FW Eldar stuff
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2017, 04:21:27 AM »
@Everyone- So I got my first game of 8th edition in yesterday and I gotta say... the Hornets with Brightlances, and the Warp Hunter (with shuriken cannon) were MVP's of the game. Absolutley brilliant units. Hornets with vectored engines + crystal targetting matrix were fantastic. The Warp Hunter evaded trouble the entire game hiding out of LOS and just blasting units. Took out a Knight, Basilisk and a load of troops in shortened game (5 turns had to leave for time). They barely took any damage until turn 5. Vectored engines are SOOO good on both units especially the hornets who become ultra evasive. Really phenomenal. I'll have a bat-rep up soon in my project log for those interested.

How many times did you advance, the Hornet rule and Vector engines only kick in when you advance and that means you can't shoot..

Watch out for enemies that always hit on xxx have not seen too many though, still diving through the books :)



Offline Captain Krash

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Re: FW Eldar stuff
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2017, 07:19:09 AM »
@Cavalier Would be very interested to read the batrep! I wanna see how the hornets preformed. Don't have the book yet but what changed about them?

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Offline Cavalier

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Re: FW Eldar stuff
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2017, 07:59:00 AM »
@Magenb- DAMNIT! You are right about that... totally played that wrong. Even still, I found them to be excellent in terms of damage output. The lances rack up damage QUICK. The Warp Hunter was still great. Shooting those heavy duty blasts out of LOS was really, really good. His dice were heating up as the game went on... if I had used my command points to re-roll how many shots he did, could have been a different game.

@Sarkrim- I'll try and blast that bat-rep out either today or tomorrow. Thanks for asking bud. Like I said above though, I goofed on the Hornets. They weren't even targetted till turn 3... so it wasn't too bad of a goof, but they did put some horrendous damage out on an Imperial Knight. They are definitely very good. Running them with Shuriken Cannons and Vectored Engines could be extremely good too, since I BELIVE you can advance and shoot with them. That'd get you that legit -2 to hit... I THINK... gotta hit the rulebook to check  :P :P :P :P
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Offline Sarkrim

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Re: FW Eldar stuff
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2017, 09:42:32 AM »
Yeah you can advance and fire assault weapons, you do get a -1 to hit modifier for doing it. I'm just wondering if Hornets are a little too expensive to be worth it. Personally I'd stick them in the back and let them rain death on things with the pulse lasers. Yes they are a bit pricy but they can still bring the pain. The -1 to hit against them can be useful if you need to relocate due to something getting too close to them.

And you're welcome with regards to the nightwing/phoenix. The point cost of them surprised me as well but I feel they are well priced for what they bring to the table.

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Re: FW Eldar stuff
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2017, 01:06:43 PM »
The Hornet Pulse Laser seems a little underwhelming against vehicles and compared to the regular Pulse Laser, but I think it has upsides. Compare it not to the Pulse Laser, but to the Starcannon, which has a very similar profile. Against models with 2 or fewer wounds, the Hornet Pulse Laser is basically a better Starcannon: more range, more shots. A model armed with two of these (compared to a 2xStarcannon War Walker, for example) puts out a lot of shots that are strong against heavy infantry and not bad against light. The lower damage of course is not ideal against vehicles.

The problem may have more to do with cost-effectiveness.
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