Topic: Battle of the Primarchs!

[Jester (Hadn't Changed His Profile Recently)]

Actually, I think Horus would probably be in there and it would turn into a popularity contest that he would lose. He did rip the emperors arm off. ( If Lomendil is suddenly trying to read all my posts, note that this is completely civil and said in as joking manner)

[skalnok]

i vote lion just because it seems both times in the draws he seemed to come out on top if only very very slightly ( sword through russ's heart )   but he would come out very very bruised and broken

[Teh_Primarch]

Leman Russ > Lion IF and only IF he dished out the cheap shots as well. Knowing how honourable leman russ is he would never hit lion if he was down and without a weapon, hed throw lion a weapon and lion would see an opportunity to kill him. Lion is dishounourable, sneaky, cold, self-centered, unfriendly, arrogant, and clever, which is why he wins. In a fight, honour doesnt matter, winning does. I give the win to lion only escaping an inch from death and using every trick in the book against russ.

[Irandrura]

Draw. They've fought each other on five separate occasions and neither has ever bested the other. Jonson and Russ are perfectly matched opponents.

[Lonewolf]

Draw. They've fought each other on five separate occasions and neither has ever bested the other. Jonson and Russ are perfectly matched opponents

Hmm, from the quotes you supplied, it looked to me, as if there had been winners in those duells, only that they didnt decide to kill each other (i mean, blade to the heart, come on, even if Russ should have two...).

[Dedecus]

Draw. They've fought each other on five separate occasions and neither has ever bested the other. Jonson and Russ are perfectly matched opponents.

For the record,  Russ did start the first fight with a cheap shot of his own. 

I actually totally agree with Irandrura. Since I'm a Dark Angels player and a Space Wolf hater, I just like doing things like provoking the Space Wolf players to defend their Primarch

Dead serious though, it should be a draw. They'd fight each other until total exhaustion takes over and they both simultaneously collapse, and impale themselves on their own swords.

[TDB]

Strength on par with Magnus? Physical strength?

You have a source for that?

Yep, Space Wolves IA article, it says "His strength was lauded as rivalling that of Russ, but he preferred to expend his energies learning and pursuing ancient arcana than the art of battle."  It's important to remember that this is untrained strength though, Russ was undoubtably better at fighting (and brawling) than Magnus, if only from practice.  Magnus was very much like the mythical cyclops, big, strong but also smart; naive, but smart. 

[Irandrura]

Hmm, from the quotes you supplied, it looked to me, as if there had been winners in those duells, only that they didnt decide to kill each other (i mean, blade to the heart, come on, even if Russ should have two...).

You have to consider the context of that battle. The Fortress of Unforgiven has a decent explanation. (You have to go the next page; they've split it up for some reason.) Though the FoU has an understandable Dark Angel bias, it's fairly reliable as these things go.

Though it mentions Jonson striking Russ barehandedly instead of using a sword... there are different versions of the same event around, as is the case with a lot of myth. The important point is that Russ was not defending himself at that point as he had ceased fighting.

For the record,  Russ did start the first fight with a cheap shot of his own.

Which Jonson finished with a cheap shot of his own. Fair is fair, after all.

Yep, Space Wolves IA article, it says "His strength was lauded as rivalling that of Russ, but he preferred to expend his energies learning and pursuing ancient arcana than the art of battle." 

Is that talking about physical strength or strength in general? It's quite an ambiguous statement, as are an awful lot of statements about the Primarchs. It even says that his strength was 'lauded' as equal to Russ', not that it actually was. You could take it in several ways.

[TDB]

Is that talking about physical strength or strength in general?

The subject of the sentence is physical strength (shown by it saying he didn't train in the art of battle) so it's talking about physical strength.  I'm sure there is a better way to explain that but since it talks of physical strength and not general strength i'm thinking that it does mean the two were fairly equal in this regard.

It even says that his strength was 'lauded' as equal to Russ', not that it actually was.

I think it says 'lauded' because there was never any direct competition between the two (pre-heresy) to actually find out, their comparative strength most likely measured by acts during the Crusade.  Both picking up massive rocks and knocking walls down with their fists for example.     The fight between the two also shows that they were almost equal in physical strength as well, considering Magnus was not a trained fighter he did alright imo, especially considering he (arguably) didn't have any 'superpowers' at the time.

It is open to speculation as you said though but hey, i like Magnus. 

[ghost_realm]

Still cant see how Lion EL beat Sanguinius, (Lion El beat a Chaos powered SPACE MARINE, Sanguinius would have beaten a Chaos powered PRIMARCH, if Horus didnt cheat) P.S- wasnt Ang'grath stronger than Ka'bandha?

My sentiments exactly on the lion part. Oh well I have to go with Russ winning no reason other than Magnus is out and I have to vote for someone winning.

Also after going through the back section of the horus heresy vol. IV: Visions of death it has 2 pics of Ka'bandha. One Looks like some crappy bloodletter and the other looks exactly like Ang'grath and has the same weapons etc. Could be that Ang'grath and Ka'bandha are one in the same (that's only based on art work from the card game though. Also what was with the pic of Magnus with 2 eyes and 1  was poked out. I'm going for him being a giant cyclops with 1 eye from from when he was born).

[Benandorf]

RUSS! RUSS! RUSS! RUSS!

WAAAAAGH!!  Or sommit like that...

[supremeburteeto]

Final Round will end tommorow at 5:00pm Pacific time(8:00pm as it says on thread)

[crazedjustice888]

Lion because as the article Irandrura pointed out, it showed that Lion was not as strong, but also fast and nimble.  In an actual battle, how can you win if you cannot hit your opponent.  I don't mean to hate on the space wolves, I certantly repsect both chapters, but strenght alone cannot win the match alone.  Being in the Martial Arts, I have taken down guys 4 times my size in less than 30 seconds, by just dodging, and waiting for the right time to strike.  The hard ones I think are the fast ones, I have only been beaten by one man, he is about my size, but after that, he got cocky, so I exploited it.  This just goes to show you that Strength is not everything.

[supremeburteeto]

The votes are in and the winner is................. ......Lion EL Johnson, barely. Well that brings a close to the competition, thanks for voting!