News: No news is good news...

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: Universal Rule Proposal: Pistol Upgrades should be 5 points cheaper.  (Read 4940 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MagicJuggler

  • Juggling a load of balls
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2012
  • Country: 00
  • Nobody expects the Spanish Ynquisition.
It's safe enough to say that most Pistol Upgrades are overcosted, and generally not worth taking. Whether it's taking Blast Pistols for a DE character (instead of Haywire Grenades), Plasma Pistols (period), or mass Neurodisruptors/Fusion on Harlequins, the costs are effectively a pointsink. Dropping their costs by 5 points makes them "usable" rather than "what are you doing?"

This change won't apply to the 5-point Relic Pistols that are present in assorted codexes, from Crescendo to The Emperor's Benediction.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 10:25:45 AM by MagicJuggler »

Offline Spectral Arbor

  • Major
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3021
  • Country: ca
  • Thanks for the help.
I'm all for it. Pistols may as well be one-use weapons in 90% of cases. At least a CCW upgrade can be used for a couple of rounds of combat.

And the Emperor's Benediction should be a free upgrade to a single Lord Commissar. For a joke, it might as well be. I get why it's a "Relic" but as far a crappy Relics go, it's pretty much at the peak of perfection in it's near unusability.

Offline Calamity

  • Concussor Concussed Dice | Captain
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3055
  • Country: gb
  • Cocking up miniatures since 1998
  • Armies: Kharadron Overlords, Bloodbound, Celestial Lions
I think pistols should make snap shots at BS 2, to present it being easier to draw and use them. 

Offline Wyddr

  • Author Eminence: Hereticus Liber Daemonica | Fio'shas Shi
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5254
  • Country: us
    • My blog about SF/F stuff
  • Armies: Daemons, Imperial Fists, Tau, Ksons, Vostroyans
Yeah, those pistols need the reduction. They are hardly ever used and there are even many instances where you don't want to use them (you can spoil your own assault with a good pistol phase).

I don't agree on the boost to overwatch, though. That would have far-reaching and devastating repercussions.

Offline Spectral Arbor

  • Major
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3021
  • Country: ca
  • Thanks for the help.
Like making pistols slightly worthwhile? ;) It makes sense to me. Flamers get wall of Death, which makes the investment worthwhile even on a slow moving  models that might not otherwise get to shoot them. I don't think I'd do both... but it would help to offset a unit's lost CC ability in a turn in which they don't charge, but are themselves charged.

That said, it hurts poor save models like Orks and Nids more than it would hurt Marines, since a handful of bolt pistols firing at Orks would, on average, be just as bad as them charging into bolter armed dudes. In both cases, the poor saves mean that modest AP guns, like Bolt Pistols are even more likely to harm them, making charges more difficult.

I think it makes sense, but it hurts armies that already have a hard time getting their hordes into cc.

Offline The GrimSqueaker

  • The Badger on the Road | Staff Infection Officer | Debased Vassal Slayer | Title Barfly | XOXOXO Gossip Girl | Bent Over
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19053
  • Country: nz
  • From the Fourth Necromantic House
Sure. I'll just allow an option for Fire Warriors to carry Pulse Pistols, with the extra rules of course, and we're golden.  ;)
Quote from: @TracyAuGoGO
Tact is for people who are too slow witted to be sarcastic.
Drink
Knights Tippler
Quote from: Surviving the World
If you can't make fun of something, it's probably not worth taking seriously.

You have to love the smell of science in the morning. It smells of learning.... or perhaps a gas leak.

Offline Wyddr

  • Author Eminence: Hereticus Liber Daemonica | Fio'shas Shi
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5254
  • Country: us
    • My blog about SF/F stuff
  • Armies: Daemons, Imperial Fists, Tau, Ksons, Vostroyans
I think it makes sense, but it hurts armies that already have a hard time getting their hordes into cc.

This is sufficient reason to not do it, I feel. CC is hard enough to pull off these days and pistols are way too common. Hell, charging Slugga Boyz would be exactly like being shot by Slugga Boyz. I see no need or use for it--pistols are useful enough in the assault phase as-is, both as lead-in weapons and as things that add attacks. There is nothing wrong with them *other* than the fact that it costs way too much to buy a plasma pistol, meaning nobody in their right mind buys a plasma pistol. 

Offline Spectral Arbor

  • Major
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3021
  • Country: ca
  • Thanks for the help.
Sure. I'll just allow an option for Fire Warriors to carry Pulse Pistols, with the extra rules of course, and we're golden.  ;)

When everyone can overwatch an assaulting unit with 5 units that aren't being assaulted, we'll make sure to consider the fairness of overwatch rules for Tau. :P

While I do think that higher BS for pistols makes sense, a lot of sense, I think that in terms of current game mechanics it would disproportionately harm armies that already have a tough time making it to assault.

I'm very much on board with making "upgrade" pistols 5 points cheaper.

Offline The GrimSqueaker

  • The Badger on the Road | Staff Infection Officer | Debased Vassal Slayer | Title Barfly | XOXOXO Gossip Girl | Bent Over
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19053
  • Country: nz
  • From the Fourth Necromantic House
Which is why you shouldn't consider rule changes with only your own favourite little subset in mind. Other armies and their own foibles could make the rule utterly broken. Which you knew, of course.  :)
Quote from: @TracyAuGoGO
Tact is for people who are too slow witted to be sarcastic.
Drink
Knights Tippler
Quote from: Surviving the World
If you can't make fun of something, it's probably not worth taking seriously.

You have to love the smell of science in the morning. It smells of learning.... or perhaps a gas leak.

 


Powered by EzPortal