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Author Topic: For Review: 1500pt Craftworld Ryleina General Purpose Tournament List  (Read 2492 times)

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Offline Gutstikk

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Since I've been such a hideous tyrant in reviewing army lists lately, I figure it's a good time to let all of you take a swing at mine. This will also serve to illustrate that I tend not to field the most powerful lists I could, and also to show some errors I make when approaching the game. If one of you would like to critique using my system as outlined in the Big List post, on my behalf [since I don't think I'd do it objectively], I'd greatly appreciate it.

This list is designed with the intention of being a flexible, take-all-comers force that will have a good level of performance in any of the basic missions at any game level, so that, were I to practice using it and nail it down, I could use this list as a tournament list with comfort. It features a list built in accordance with my own Craftworld design - therefore, only 1 power per Exarch/Seer, no wraithguard/lords, no Avatars, and a fairly even mix of Aspect and Non-Aspect units. I have no idea who I might be facing [it may even occasionally be used at a higher points level, suffering a handicap as a result], so I have to be pretty sure it can handle a variety of terrain setups and mission requirements, as well as handle any opponent it might encounter.

Because of these requirements, and because I don't alter my unit configurations too much anymore, I figure this list is about as complete as it's going to get. But I am curious to see how others might think it performs. So without further ado:

1496/1500pts:
130: Autarch, Jetbike, Laser Lance, Fusion Gun
118: Farseer, Jetbike, Fortune, Spear
113: 6 Frost Dragons, Exarch, Flamer, Crack Shot
128: 6 Scorpions, Exarch, Claw, Stalker
100: 10 Defenders, EML
100: 10 Defenders, EML
140: 9 Dire Avengers, Exarch, Dual Cats, Defend
130: Serpent, Twin Shuriken cannon, Shuriken cannon, VE
  75: Vyper, EML, Shuriken cannon
  75: Vyper, EML, Shuriken cannon
157: 3 Spears, Exarch, Star Lance, Withdraw
165: Falcon, Shuriken cannon, holofields, stones
  65: War Walker, 2 x Scatter Lasers, Spirit Stones

Plans for Alpha and Gamma:
The Defenders, Scorps and Walker start on the field, covering key fire lanes while the scorps guard the line. The Walker will try to reach the best available position with scout move, then the group will fire upon the enemy as the scorps advance through cover.

The Autarch is joined to the Spears, while the Farseer follows them downfield but doesn't join them. They all turbo-boost early if possible [turn 1 or 2], weathering fire directed at them if necessary. Then, they receive fortune again, charge the enemy, and hit and run out of combat to guard the Farseer from enemy fire and assaults, relying on their augmented armor to keep them around [the Autarch will actually break off from the squad to split up fire even more, but as a result, no fortune for him...].

The Avengers advance in their serpent with support from the vypers as necessary; the vypers and guardians team up with the Falcon and Dragons vs enemy tanks while the Serpent picks on the same target as the walker. The avengers only dismount if lots of targets are available and they are relatively sheltered from enemy interference.

The Scorps are set up to hop into the falcon after the dragons have been released, being driven to the location at the end of their turn 2 move where they will meet up with the Autarch and Farseer for turn 3's assaults. Depending on who survives, the Farseer will aim to fortune the squad who will benefit most. If necessary, the Avengers can hold up the enemy for 1 round as the Autarch's crew get ready to launch a second offensive [and can block firing lanes for enemy infantry if need be].

My Defenders and faster units will advance towards objectives in the later points of the game. One of the weaknesses of this list is its general frailty, so I will need to actually hold back on my plans for a turn or two if possible, which may let the enemy redeploy in such a manner that he gains the upper hand. It will be a tough call to balance the need to avoid attrition [a 6 turn match is harder on a less-durable army, so casualties need to be dealt early] with the need to take objectives [where I will need units to be around later on, so will have to avoid direct confrontation if I can].

Escalation will require me to make excellent use of concealment, throwing my first turn if necessary to allow time for the reserves to arrive, though this moves my battle plan back a turn it just isn't worth facing the enemy with a fraction of my firepower. If I can hit hard enough in a small enough area I should be able to gain local superiority, and ultimately expand to control of the battlefield from there.

The low model-count is also an achilles heel; I will be unlikely to weather the kind of firepower I can put out. This means against an army with more numbers and equal firepower I'll have to try very hard to control how the forces engage each other, and dictate the ebb and flow of the battle. To this end, it will be important to know when to withdraw [and where!] as well as when to press the attack, and to avoid any sacrifices if possible.

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Offline tzeentchling

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How useful have you found the 6-man scorpion unit?  They seem like too small a squad to have a significant impact on all but the smallest squads.  Also, how often have you needed the spirit stones on the walker?  It's only 5 points, so maybe you couldn't have used them elsewhere, but they don't seem incredibly necessary.  Likewise for the second shuriken cannon on the Wave Serpent - I suppose it might be a bit more likely to fire often, but again that's 10 points that could be used elsewhere - enough with what's left over to get a 10th DA (if I read that right as 9 total in the unit).  Or, perhaps more importantly (or not depending on metagame) they could be used to get runes of warding on your farseer.
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Offline Gutstikk

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Missed the potential runes of warding - they were there initially, removed them during some points-shuffles, and didn't see I could wiggle them back in. Though...

Spirit stones on walkers are quite affordable. I am really conflicted about them. I almost never actually buy them, but the last couple of games saw my walkers in area terrain nailed with a single penetrating hit removing a weapon and stunning them. Had they been shaken, it could have backpeddled [perhaps] and had a chance at surviving. Then again, I've bought them in the past and it's just been an extra 5 points for my opponent, so who knows?

The serpent I was planning on possibly using to chew through side armor, or to combine fire with the walker and one or two of the other vehicles. Still, the runes of warding could be far more useful... I'll wait and see how the scores come back first, but I am strongly considering that change.

The 6 man scorpion unit is quite useful in the falcon whenever the dragons aren't in it, to tie up enemy squads or add some weight to an assault the Avengers have tarpitted [as avengers are horrible at killing things themselves, and the Autarch's group may have to chase down a more important target].

Offline moc065

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1496/1500pts:
130: Autarch, Jetbike, Laser Lance, Fusion Gun
118: Farseer, Jetbike, Fortune, Spear
113: 6 Frost Dragons, Exarch, Flamer, Crack Shot
128: 6 Scorpions, Exarch, Claw, Stalker
100: 10 Defenders, EML
100: 10 Defenders, EML
140: 9 Dire Avengers, Exarch, Dual Cats, Defend
130: Serpent, Twin Shuriken cannon, Shuriken cannon, VE
  75: Vyper, EML, Shuriken cannon
  75: Vyper, EML, Shuriken cannon
157: 3 Spears, Exarch, Star Lance, Withdraw
165: Falcon, Shuriken cannon, holofields, stones
  65: War Walker, 2 x Scatter Lasers, Spirit Stones

moc-score

1.. Anti-tank potential: With every unit having either dedicated anti-tank or at least side/rear armour potential I would say that you have covered this area well enough, Very Good (.9)
2.. Anti-MEQ potential: Maybe not a lot of AP=3 weapons/attacks; but there are other things like combo's, mass shooting, etc, so overall I think its, Above Average (.7)
3.. Anti-Horde potential: Not a load of Templates, flamers, etc; but it has some of them, and it has loads of shooting/attacks as well as some tricks like "holding" units, "buring fist" (or in this case - Freezing Fist), not to mention the mobility aspect as well. Good (.8 )
4.. Ranged Firepower potential: Aside from a couple of spacific units, the whole army works at 24" or greater, so range should not be that big of an issur for it, Good (.8 )
5.. Assault potential: 2 Assault units that are pretty decent (and no I did not overlook the Autarch-but he should be joining the Spears in many cases) but they are still very small. It does have good "holding" units a and some serious combo's but this are could be brought up a little, thus I find it about, Average (.6)
6.. Scoring Units / point level: 10 Scoring Units at 1500pts, granted 4 of those are relatively small/soft; but even still that is, Excellent (1)
7.. Durability or Resilience: Obviously, where you have that many small units you take a hit of Resilience. Yes the range will help as will the JBS, but agaisnt other fast armies, there are some pretty "soft" targets so overall I only see this as, Average (.6)
8.. Flexibility: Very flexible, for use on virtually any race and any list out there. It will experience difficulty against other Eldar that are fast/resilient, as well as any Psycher Armies; but its still, Above Average (.7) 
9.. Mission Capability: I don't see this list having an isse with any missions; granted it will not be able to take extra advantage of certain missions, it will also not get owned by others, thus I see it as, Very Good (.9)
10. Dynamics and/or Theme: Well the dynamics are pretty nice, and most of the units have several contingency plans to make sure that they can continue to assist the whole army even with other key eleiments get removed. As for the theme, well if he wants to tweek this thing to be even better then the theme would take a hit, so overall I see this area as being , Good (.8 )
 
Rating = 7.8 others may score it differently; but I woudl be comfortable taking this list to almost any environment and expect good results. It is not the sort oflist for a newbie to use though, as many of hte combo's and tactics must be practised to prefect, and the list should be weilded like a razor sharp Scalple.

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« Last Edit: April 7, 2008, 12:17:21 PM by moc065 »
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Offline Gutstikk

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Thanks! Yeah, the autarch is running with the spears, except for very particular situations where his unit's death is guaranteed and splitting off will preserve him somewhat due to the IC targetting rules. So 2 combat units and a potential holding squad.

Think the loss of the chin-cannon on the serpent and the spirit stones on the walker in exchange for warding runes is a safe bet? I'm really leaning towards this change, as recommended by tzeenchtling... Also, bladestorm or defend? Defend can be useful but then again lots of enemy units typically have only one attack when they aren't charging. The serpent makes bladestorm a possibility, though I figure with defend they can afford to lock nastier things, as well as Orks.

Offline moc065

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Here is what I would do, given these units.

1496/1500pts:
130: Autarch, Jetbike, Laser Lance, Fusion Gun
118: Farseer, Jetbike, Fortune, Spear, Runes of Warding (133)
113: 6 Frost Dragons, Exarch, Flamer, Crack Shot
128: 6 Scorpions, Exarch, Claw, Stalker
100: 10 Defenders, EML
100: 10 Defenders, EML
140: 9 Dire Avengers, Exarch, Dual Cats, Defend PW & Shimmershield, and Bladestorm (150)
130: Serpent, Twin Shuriken cannon, Shuriken cannon, VE
  75: Vyper, EML, Shuriken cannon (65)
  75: Vyper, EML, Shuriken cannon (65)
157: 3 Spears, Exarch, Star Lance, Withdraw
165: Falcon, Shuriken cannon, holofields, stones
  65: War Walker, 2 x Scatter Lasers, Spirit Stones (60)

If your not a fan of the PW & Shimmershield then get Mandiblasters for your Autarch. I have other ideas; but most of them conflict with your Fluff. However I do see the Vypers operating at range and still being effective, the DA being able to "Drive-By" shoot and then "hold" as I have them configed, and I don't think Stones on your Warwalker will make much of a difference.

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Offline Gutstikk

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I actually got to test this out today, swapping defend for bladestorm and the spirit stones on the walker + chin gun on the serpent for runes of warding. I ended up facing 1k sons [yay runes of warding!]

I lost 2 of my spears at the start of turn 2 to three inferno shots from a 1k sons army, and they were fortuned on top of that. The scorps were largely ineffective as they were incapable of closing with the Tzeentch troops at the outset, though had they started in my Falcon instead of the dragons things could have been quite different indeed [mental note]. The Farseer lived through about 5 turns of being assaulted by killy stuff, passing all of her saves until turn 6 when a force weapon finished her off.

My shooting had lots of problems throughout the whole game, with loads of misses followed by loads of ones and twos vs enemy rhinos and dreads. Not cool! But, since the luck was so out of whack, I figure it really doesn't give me a good picture. Without the shuriken cannons though I wouldn't have glanced hardly anything.

My Guardian Defenders have an Ork Bikerboss with Powerklaw and Attack Squigs under their belt, and now add a DP of tzeentch with winds of chaos.

The fire dragons, once deployed, killed off a Dreadnought and 3 1k sons, accounting for 4 of 6 enemy models that I managed to kill  :P. I passed an absurd number of saves to compensate for the lack of damage I did, but some bad LD and a whole lotta luck for him with his dreads hitting my skimmers in CC accounted for most of my force.

I feel like with a bit of practice though this will not be the norm. I must be much more cautious with those shining spears though, and probably with the scorpions as well...

Offline Shinrathir

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Hello Gutstikk, as per your recomendation, I've taken some time to check out your list... and I must say... I am impressed.  Not much to comment on... but I did have a couple of questions about the list if you're willing to indulge me.

Now... I remember reading in a WD way back (when Eldar came out for 3rd) that a certain amount of arrogance is necessary when fielding Eldar... particularly when it comes to unit size.  Your list really seems to take this advice to heart (the unit size... not the arrogance!) and employs a lot of small squads.  Perhaps I'm too timid... but I've always been afraid that small squads will get chewed up and spit out before they can accomplish their mission.  How do you find this works for you?

Also... I noted the Dragons and Scorps sharing the Falcon (just as you mentioned in my thread) and wanted to ask a little bit more about this combo.  How does the shared transport work in practice?  Do six Scorpions really have enough punch when deployed fairly late in the game?

Anyway... thanks again for all your patience and advice.  It's been really helpful.  Good luck with your list! (And hopefully Tzeentch won't curse your dice anymore!)
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Offline Gutstikk

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Re: For Review: 1500pt Craftworld Ryleina General Purpose Tournament List
« Reply #10 on: April 9, 2008, 09:12:58 AM »
This game, the Scorps would have worked far better deployed early with the dragons deployed late, and as I had the reverse order, both squads suffered quite a bit for it. I've never faced the Tzeentchian amry before, and faced with 30 Thousand Sons, all with a 4++... it really hurt my ability to cut through their armor! The scorps, had they made it into combat early, would have prevented a lot of the casualties I suffered due to their inferno bolts and Slow and Purposeful enabling them to hold range on me once they had closed in.

Small squads play exactly as you would expect; used cleverly and tactically they will do their job well [because they are Eldar and therefore are really good at what they do], but it leaves no room for error and one bad move tends to cause a cascade effect that can lose you your whole force. On the other hand, in this game larger squads would have been even worse, as the enemy had the power to inflict heavy casualties on any target he chose, though was relatively unable to engage many targets at once. I also attempt to make up for the small sizes by utilizing a variety of units which either have differing weak points or similar strong points that are applied differently. Both the spears and the scorps are good assault squads, but one is better at reliably killing a small number of quality models [the spears] while the other is better at handling a larger number of grunts [the scorps]. This also means that, should a sacrifice be necessary, I can select the unit which is least integral to my plans.

I feel I have the arrogance side of things down, now I just need to start remembering that we are a dying race and playing accordingly! Hope this has been of some help to you.

 


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