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Author Topic: 1500 Altansar fluff-oriented list  (Read 3959 times)

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Offline Tango Down

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1500 Altansar fluff-oriented list
« on: March 8, 2008, 04:49:38 PM »
I've recently started an Eldar army and after researching the different craftworlds, non of them really appealed to me except Altansar. Plus Maugan Ra is probably one of the coolest looking models IMO. The story of him going into the Eye and actually coming out with his craftworld is amazing.

I really want my army to "pop" a bit on the table, and to my knowledge this is a pretty unusual list. Keep in mind though this is just for fun, I don't really play tournament games. Therefore I am aware of some glaring issues with this list, such as lack of counter chargers, multiple long ranged shooty units competing for firing positions, etc.

Here is the Army list I have thought up for an Altansar themed army. Its composition is based on their state after exiting the Eye with Maugan Ra, rather than when they were still inside.

HQ
Maugan Ra  1**
Farseer Spirit Stones, Doom, Singing Spear, Runes of Warding, Guide 148

Troops
Guardians x15 w/ EML platform + Warlock w/ singing spear, conceal, spirit seer upgrade   189

Pathfinders x6  144

Fast Attack
Swooping Hawks x8 Exarch w/ Hawk's Talon, Skyleap, Intercept 215

Heavy Support
Wraithlord w/ BL, EML    155

Dark Reapers x5 w/ Exarch w/ EML, Fast Shot     217
Dark Reapers x5 w/ Exarch w/ EML, Fast Shot     217

This is 1480 in total, so I have 20 points to spare.

Just to quickly explain my reasoning for my choices:

Maugan Ra is self explanatory.
Farseer: He is Altansar's most powerful Farseer, without his divinations and wisdom, the craftworld would have been doomed. He has foiled countless enemy attacks and a great part of Altansar's survival is owed to him.

Guardians: The last surviving civilians of Altansar. They have become hardened and skilled warriors from fighting off enemies in the Eye for so long.
Pathfinders: These pathfinders were called upon by Maugan Ra to help navigate through the Eye, and have also proven to be invaluable scouts and assassins, neutralizing enemy threats from a long distance.

Dark Reapers: Maugan Ra's chosen, who were called to aid him in the search for Altansar.
Wraithlord: Represents Altansar's dependence on these wraith constructs due to dwindling numbers and heavy casualties.

Swooping Hawks: Veteran hawks sent by Baharroth to aid Maugan Ra.

So as you can see, I have limited myself to very few aspect warriors, as other craftworlds are suspicious of Altansar being able to survive for so long in the Eye without corruption. Perhaps in a 2000 point list I will include a squad or two of Dire Avengers to represent the Guardians/civilians becoming highly skilled and deadly after thousands of years of constant attacks against them. These could also be used as counter-chargers. Wave Serpents or Vypers may be included as well, but I'll have to think up a reason for including them.

My knowledge of Eldar fluff is no where near as good as some of the members here so I am also hoping for everyone to correct me if I was wrong anywhere and/or evaluate my reasonings for the units I have chosen. Comments, questions and concerns please! Thanks!

-Tango

Offline Tango Down

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Re: 1500 Altansar fluff-oriented list
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2008, 10:09:58 PM »
Not many Altansar fans here? :(

Offline Dr. Ravingburger

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Re: 1500 Altansar fluff-oriented list
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2008, 11:20:57 PM »
Looking at your list: you have around 50 models. Not too bad, but you could get swamped rather easily. The main problem I foresee is tanks. If your opponent is smart, the Wraithlord could be taken down instantly, along with a squad of reapers in their shooting phase. Alternatively, they could assault this army, in which case you are screwed. I personally think you should either drop Maugan Ra or the Farseer. It just costs too much for both to be used in this list. I would also drop one squad of reapers for some Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent to help out in AT.

Offline Halfpast_Yellow

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Re: 1500 Altansar fluff-oriented list
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2008, 03:26:05 AM »
Good list and good fluff. I actually think you've got a bit too much AT in your list. I'd suggest going with a different kit on one of your reaper exarchs. Crack shot and Reaper Launcher is a good combo, or perhaps a tempest launcher.

With your spare points you can give your seer fortune. If you get first turn you can fortune something vulnerable as you likely won't have anything decent to Doom due to the range.

Maybe try Embolden out on the Guardians instead of Conceal. They make a good seer babysitter as he can reroll boxcars and 11's for his tests. Because they've got good range and low target priority you shouldn't miss the 5+ cover save. They can be well back down the field because Ld10 rerollable isn't likely to run anywhere.

Offline Tango Down

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Re: 1500 Altansar fluff-oriented list
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2008, 03:53:23 PM »
I'd love to use Fire Dragons, but I'm trying not to use any other aspects due to fluff reasons. I was hoping the Hawks would fill in the role of Anti Tanks with Intercept and Haywire Grenades. Hits on 4+ and a guaranteed result on a 2+ looks good on paper. I don't have much experience with Hawks so I could be wrong. Are they reliable enough for Tank Hunting?

I was worried about the wraithlord actually. It really does stick out like a sore thumb. I plan to get some Wraithguard to fill in the WL's role in representing Altansar's dependance on wraith constructs however. I can probably drop one of the powers on the Farseer to add Fortune in there. It would certainly help my lone WL out.

Thanks for the input so far fellas.

-Tango

Offline Scalu

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Re: 1500 Altansar fluff-oriented list
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2008, 04:54:51 PM »
Hi Tango Down,

  Here are some suggestions that I think might fit the fluff.

Definately getting just crack shot on one of the Dark Reaper units would be good, if not both.  The EML on the guardians and wraithlord is fluffy, as they fit in with the reaper launcher nicely.  Embolden is always my choice of Warlock power for the guardian units.

I would drop the Wraithlord for another unit of guardians w/ EML for fluff reasons, and army comp reasons, too many points in heavy.

Also, you could easily have Harlies in your army and have them fit in the fluff.  You can be sure they helped navigate the more "difficult" passages of the webway going into and out of the Eye of Terror.  Get a Death Jester in that group for fluff reasons.  He resembles Maugan Ra.  Get a shodowseer in there as well, and keep them back shooting unless something gets close to you.  Consider 2 units of them even.
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Offline Tango Down

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Re: 1500 Altansar fluff-oriented list
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2008, 02:14:53 AM »
Yea I wasn't too sure about my lack of troop choices. Trying to get the two Reaper Squads and the WL into the list really ate up a ton of points. I really would like a unit of Harlequins, but I was unsure of their fluff, as in whether or not they would be willing to help Altansar with all the other Craftworlds suspicious of it. You do make a good point though. I'll be replacing Conceal with Embolden and reworking the Heavy Support/Troop choices as many of you suggested.

Also, should I remove Fast Shot and replace it with Crack Shot? Or just have both?

That Autarch in your avatar pic looks really awesome by the way, Scalu. Did you paint that yourself?

-Tango

Offline Scalu

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Re: 1500 Altansar fluff-oriented list
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2008, 05:41:57 PM »
Thanks!  I painted him for a local tourney, and he turned out 'colourful'.  ;)

I would just get Crack shot by itself for your Exarchs.  It will save you a bit of points to go elsewhere.
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Offline moc065

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Re: 1500 Altansar fluff-oriented list
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2008, 06:16:02 PM »
Altansar.

HQ
Maugan Ra  1**
Farseer Spirit Stones, Doom, Singing Spear, Runes of Warding, Guide 148

Troops
Guardians x15 w/ EML platform + Warlock w/ singing spear, conceal, spirit seer upgrade   189
Pathfinders x6  144

Fast Attack
Swooping Hawks x8 Exarch w/ Hawk's Talon, Skyleap, Intercept 215

Heavy Support
Wraithlord w/ BL, EML    155
Dark Reapers x5 w/ Exarch w/ EML, Fast Shot     217
Dark Reapers x5 w/ Exarch w/ EML, Fast Shot     217

This is 1480 in total, so I have 20 points to spare. 6 Scoring Units, 42 figures


If you don't mind I would like to up an Effeciency Rating for this army, and use it in a project that I am working on, here is the criteria for the Rating system I use. Please let me know if you want me to rate this or not, as I do not want to use this list in the project without your permission.

1.. Anti-tank potential: Although EML's are not dedicated anti-tank, you have certainly forseen and compensated for anti-tank with almost every unit, Very Good (.9)
2.. Anti-MEQ potential: In this department you have certainly covered your bases, with almost every unit having good to great potential against teh dreaded "Power Armour", Excellent (1) -- and by the way, I thinkyou are one of the few to score full points here.
3.. Anti-Horde potential: If you get "Rushed" and swamped by a horde your in serious trouble; but you have a lot of good shooting for any horde to get through before they get to you, I would have liked to see at least one solid "Holding" unit to help slow a horde down; but otherwise your list is, Above Average (.7)
4.. Ranged Firepower: Low, Mid and Long ranged firepower in a decent mix, I would say that your list is more Shooty than anything; but its lack of mobility may reduce your rate of fire drematically if your forced to relocate units; overal though its still, Good (.8 )
5.. Assault potential: Virtually no Holding power, and little to none in the way of actual assaut units (although the Pathfinders may become 1st turn assaulters against specific targets, and Maughan Ra has his uses as well, etc) overall I think this is one area that the list lacks the most in, Very Poor (.2)
6.. Scoring Units / point level: 6 Scoring units in 1500pts is just, Slightly Below Average (.5)
7.. Durability or Resilience: I can see the Hawks being used for VP Denial, and there is spacific resistance for Pathfinders, Wraithlords and Dark Reapers; but realistically a smart opponent will dedicate shooting in the right places, while assaulting things like the Pathfindes to break your resilience down. I am not saying that the list has no resilience; but your gameplay wil have a huge factor on how well that resilience stands up, thus overall your list is just, Average (.6)
8.. Flexability: Your set up as a classic Gunline with a little bit of support and/or mobility; but overall its not that flexible, diverse, or unpredictable, thus its just; Average (.6)
9.. Mission Capabiliy: Missions that require mobility could hurt you if your not careful; but there is nothing that should shut your list down completely, so overall its, Above Average (.7)
10. Dynamics and/or Theme: I think you have a good Shooty theme going on here; but there are ways to improve it (mobility, synergy, etc). Overall I would say thats its not boring and it certainly will make both you and your opponent think a little so its, Above Average (.7)

Rating = 6.7 Others may score it differently, and a few minor changes could certainly have a huge effect, as could your specific game play. I don't think that it will win you any tournaments unless your a seriously good general; but it can certainly do well against certain enemies (Gunline SMurf's, etc) and it should be fun to play.

CaHG
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 06:45:07 AM by moc065 »
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Offline Tango Down

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Re: 1500 Altansar fluff-oriented list
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2008, 06:40:36 PM »
Sure moc, I'd love to have this rated.

Offline Gutstikk

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Re: 1500 Altansar fluff-oriented list
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2008, 05:36:07 PM »
Since I'm trying to catch these as they come rather than let them slip past and do a critique later on, I'll add my two cents now. But oh, how many critiques there have been lately! This is good though, because the lists I've been seeing lately have actually been pretty enjoyable to read about. Perhaps these critiques are raising the standard army list post's quality after all?

BTW: Tango Down, there was an Altansar project which a few members were working on once upon a time; perhaps they'll be poking around and can introduce themselves at some point. Anyways, on to the critique:

Read about my 5/5 Rating System for Army List Review here.

Background: 1
IT appears you've done some research into your desired theme. You've made an effort to represent a particular division with your army list [I imagine there would be a few more survivors than those present with this battle group, but perhaps these are noteworthy and therefore under the direct protection of Maugan Ra?]. You've restricted your unit selection to those units that you can justify being present, and also kept to the martial style espoused by the army's general, Maugan Ra [death from afar]. You may want to track down some of the books that feature Altansar, Maugan Ra, or anything set in the eye of terror
as you flesh this army out.

Composition: 1
I feel the troops choices have been somewhat neglected in this list and it may not have been entirely necessary. This is partially due to the presence of two pricey HQ units; this may fit the theme but hurts your unit count. The units selected do fit the theme as you've described it. You may want to consider some of your unit roles and differentiation; you can lay down a decent amount of firepower but could be done in by hordes - we do not know what the new Demon codex will look like, but if the units are much less expensive than Chaos Marines you might want to up the firepower here and there. You also have a notable vulnerability to enemy assaults. The compositional weaknesses do directly correlate to the background and preferred style of war though. And since you are not looking for a truly lethal force, it is acceptable.

Utility: .5
The units you have selected tend towards a lot of upgrading, which comes at the cost of getting more units. Sometimes upgrades are not necessary but make for nice touches, while at other times upgrades serve no purpose except to burn points. Your guardians, for instance, cost almost the same amount as two squads with a missile launcher which, if used subversively in a guerilla warfare style, will actually be more resilient as a result [since only a single missile crew need be exposed]. It is nice to have a reaper exarch, but it's not always necessary. The swooping hawks are typically a fairly vulnerable unit so investing heavily in them may not be a wise move. The farseer probably does not need guide or spirit stones, and if he followed the Wraithlord, you could afford to lose the warlock in the guardian squad altogether.

Flexibility: 1
As is often the case, utility trades with flexibility. You have spent a lot of points on your squads to make them capable of dealing with a wide variety of enemy units. The exceptions here are the pathfinders [but that is in their nature] and the farseer [who may not be able to take on everything on his own but makes up for it by supporting other units]. Again, your vulnerability is to enemy assaulters, but outside of combat you can get just about anything done.

Ingenuity: 0
The thing this list really lacks is any sort of account of how you intend to use it on the tabletop. There are no plans for any of your units, no overall strategy to unite them in their tasks, no consideration given of what you might be up against, and no plan B if plan A fails [unsurprisingly, as there is no plan A]. Without offering some idea of how the army is to be used it is very hard to determine if you will be using it effectively. Even when playing an army for theme, it is necessary to put some effort into the match; to do otherwise makes for a very dull game for your opponent. Think a bit on how you will lead these survivors from Altansar out of their nightmare.

Total Score: 3.5, for a well-thought out army... but you have more work to do! With some thought about your tactics and fitting them to the theme of the army as a whole, this would really have been a great army list, full of unit combinations that don't often get fielded in this format and side-by-side. Since this list does not represent the sort that commonly appear, you need to elaborate on how it will work. Going to the trouble of developing a theme and selecting units so appropriately is no good if all they do is get shot up for want of a plan! I want to see you develop this some more - think about how the forces of Altansar fight; face to face, or from the shadows? Heroic stands or tactical withdrawals? Meeting the enemy with force, or reacting to the enemy with grace? Which squads will fight together? Which ones will be working on their own? How will you respond to enemy assaults, or enemy hordes? There's lots of room to develop this list further, and I look forward to seeing some more.

Offline Cypher037

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Re: 1500 Altansar fluff-oriented list
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2008, 10:30:41 PM »
My thoughts on Altansar:

Because they were lost early after the fall, most aspects hadn't been developed yet. Dragons, Banshees and Dire Avengers were the first aspects, so I restrict my Altansar to these aspects plus reapers. At any rate, warp spiders and shining spears are right out as they're "new".

Rangers are a definite no. It's not exactly practical to go wandering off in the EoT. However, you could convert guardians and do a counts as for sniper guardians.

Harlies are also out. They primarily fight chaos --Altansar isn't quite chaos, but  I doubt the Harlequins are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. ;) I wouldn't be surprised if they're more hostile than the rest of the Eldar.

Lots of psykers. If Ulthwe is super psychic for their proximity to the EoT, then just imagine the psykers Altansar has. A counts as for Eldrad is conceivable.

Lots of wraith units and guardians. Their numbers are probably hurting.

So I guess I see Altansar as a mix between Ulthwe and Iyandan.

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Offline Chaplain Swordwind

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Re: 1500 Altansar fluff-oriented list
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2008, 11:31:11 AM »
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