Topic: _IG Valkyrie_

[Lieutenant Mack]

arrr  make up ye mind mack..   first ye say we canne fire in both player turns("And NO way any unit ever can fire in both your part of a turn and your opponents."), now ye say we can..?   which ye gonna go for?

(bad accent.. just woke up lol)

Well first off, I said as Getz clarified, that you could technically get away with shooting in both player phases once, but I still stand firm that you CANT shoot in every players phase, and that is the concensus amongts my fellow gamers. As well to clarify all this mess, I have a call into FW to back my stance. As Getz said, they start out as flyers and yada yada yada they cant shoot every phase of the turn...

[Captain Aurillien]

The way you insist the rules are portrayed just doent make sense. Your Quote refers to the Valkyrie being able to then attack in your turn when entering VTOL. You can never make attack runs as normal in your turn, only your opponents.

NO!!!! To sort out this mess i'm going to do a direct quote from IA V1. This may be breaking the rules but I am not repeating any rules that have not been said here.

'Second Strike

The flyer can make further attack runs. Roll a D6 at the start of the next friendly players turn, and postion on the table edge in the same manner as when it first appeared on a D6 roll of 2+. On the roll of a 1 the flyer doesn't return this turn, but you may roll for it again in your next player turn.'

End quote. This doesn't mention anything about VTOL and clearly states that you get to do another attack run.

[Lt. Helstrom]

if you were in a multiplayer battle then it would get to attack in everyones turn

That does not seem like the proper way to fight a multiplayer battle. Having more than two sides seriously screws up a lot of 40K's game mechanics. You can have as many players as you want, as long as they each belong to one of two sides. If you want three- or more-way battles, you'll have to sit down with your mates and hammer out some house rules, as the core turn sequence rules become quite useless at that point.

[Lieutenant Mack]

The way you insist the rules are portrayed just doent make sense. Your Quote refers to the Valkyrie being able to then attack in your turn when entering VTOL. You can never make attack runs as normal in your turn, only your opponents.

NO!!!! To sort out this mess i'm going to do a direct quote from IA V1. This may be breaking the rules but I am not repeating any rules that have not been said here.

'Second Strike

The flyer can make further attack runs. Roll a D6 at the start of the next friendly players turn, and postion on the table edge in the same manner as when it first appeared on a D6 roll of 2+. On the roll of a 1 the flyer doesn't return this turn, but you may roll for it again in your next player turn.'

End quote. This doesn't mention anything about VTOL and clearly states that you get to do another attack run.

Ok now I see how you are mis-interpreting the rules. What you are saying about having multiple runs in everyones turn is DEAD WRONG. That quote you are refering to is only the rules about having your flyer return each turn after the first time you rolled your reserves. You make the roll to see if it returns on your/friendly turn, NOT your opponents. So to clarify, heres how it breaks down.... your turn 2, you make your reserves roll as normal, if you called in the valkyrie, place it on the table edge you wish it to enter its attack run. finish your turn as normal. Now it is your opponents turn (the first one since you recieved your air support) make your attack run, however declare whether you will be entering VTOL before you make this run, that way your opponent can use his regular BS instead of needing 6's. If you dont enter VTOL, complete the run and leave the table. Opponent finishes his turn. Ok now it is the next FRIENDLY turn, you then roll for "FURTHER ATTACK RUNS" for that turn, if you roll what you need, then place the flyer on the table edge you wish to enter, complete your turn as normal, then in your opponents turn, repeat the whole attack run process. The quote you pulled from the book, almost verbatim says what I just clarified. No where in your quote does it say you can perform an attack run in a friendly turn, only that you make your reserves roll in a friendly turn. I am clear on the matter, and if you choose to disagree, that is fine, but If you dont believe me, contact FW directly, they will explain how you are mis-interpreting the rules. Now that everyone is completely confused on the matter, all that I can say, is I am right

[Captain Aurillien]

So to clarify, heres how it breaks down.... your turn 2, you make your reserves roll as normal, if you called in the valkyrie, place it on the table edge you wish it to enter its attack run. finish your turn as normal. Now it is your opponents turn (the first one since you recieved your air support) make your attack run, however declare whether you will be entering VTOL before you make this run, that way your opponent can use his regular BS instead of needing 6's. If you dont enter VTOL, complete the run and leave the table. Opponent finishes his turn. Ok now it is the next FRIENDLY turn, you then roll for "FURTHER ATTACK RUNS" for that turn, if you roll what you need, then place the flyer on the table edge you wish to enter, complete your turn as normal, then in your opponents turn, repeat the whole attack run process.

Read this very slowly Mack, you have just said that you get to make attack runs in your own and your opponents turn. Like I said.
And I carn't call forge world sorry as im on the other side of the world and they only open at 10 o'clock at night here and close at 7 in the morning, im in New Zealand.

[Sputnik]

Attack Runs only occur during your opponent's turn. Since when does that mean your own turn? 

[Lieutenant Mack]

So to clarify, heres how it breaks down.... your turn 2, you make your reserves roll as normal, if you called in the valkyrie, place it on the table edge you wish it to enter its attack run. finish your turn as normal. Now it is your opponents turn (the first one since you recieved your air support) make your attack run, however declare whether you will be entering VTOL before you make this run, that way your opponent can use his regular BS instead of needing 6's. If you dont enter VTOL, complete the run and leave the table. Opponent finishes his turn. Ok now it is the next FRIENDLY turn, you then roll for "FURTHER ATTACK RUNS" for that turn, if you roll what you need, then place the flyer on the table edge you wish to enter, complete your turn as normal, then in your opponents turn, repeat the whole attack run process.

Read this very slowly Mack, you have just said that you get to make attack runs in your own and your opponents turn. Like I said.
And I carn't call forge world sorry as im on the other side of the world and they only open at 10 o'clock at night here and close at 7 in the morning, im in New Zealand.

If you choose to bend rules the way you do, that is your choice. Im not sure how you misunderstand what I said, since the part I was talking about where you place the flyer on your turn on an edge you wish to attack from, thats all you do, place it on an edge, you dont make an attack run on your turn, ONLY your opponents.... you ONLY roll during your turn to see if you can make more attack runs. During your opponents turn is when the attack run actually takes place. As for not being able to call FW, send them an email, you can do that anytime, and they will set the issue straight, otherwise go ahead and keep playing the way you do, As for anyone else who is reading this post, I ask you one simple question.... Would Forgeworld, or Gamesworkshop EVER create a troop, vehicle, or ANYTHING that would allow you to shoot in every phase of every turn? You all know the answer to that one. As for this topic, this is not my style to flame anyone, but Im done with the topic. If you have any specific questions, and you think my ruling is correct, PM me for help, otherwise PM Aurillien for his version.

Somebody please lock this thread so it can die in peace!

[Captain Aurillien]

All right Mack we'll let it die. Recomend everyone discuss witrh there opponents which rules to use.

[Battle Armour]

Without arguement, can everyone tell me what THEY would do when using a valkyrie or vulture? I'm to confused.

[Tilara]

Without arguement, can everyone tell me what THEY would do when using a valkyrie or vulture? I'm to confused.

In regards to their attack runs?

On my turn I roll to determine if the aircraft will arrive. If the roll is successful, the aircraft is placed somewhere on the table edge (my choice) which is the point its attack run will begin.
On my opponent's turn, after his movement phase but before shooting, the aircraft is moved along its flightpath including up to a maximum of one 45degree turn.
In the opponent's shooting phase, they may direct any fire they wish at the aircraft adding the proper range penelty and with a slim chance to score a hit.
Assuming the aircraft survives, it is free to unload any or all of its weapons on the target(singular) of its choice.
At the start of my next turn, repeat the cycle of rolling for return strikes.


Lastly, I feel its very foolish to VTOL your aircraft... the difference between an aircraft on a strafing run and one in VTOL is about the same as swapping a landraider for a rhino... maybe, just maybe, if you manage to disable all the str5+ weapons on the battlefield you might get more use out of VTOL. Remember, when you declare VTOL the opponent shoots as normal. No hit penelty, no glancing hits, etc. If your aircraft somehow survives that, yes you get two back to back shooting phases, but then the plane is gone for another full turn as it won't make an imediate attack run on the oppoent's turn.


One of these days I'll finish painting my Vulture so I can get started on my Valk. hehe.

[Battle Armour]

So valkyries can transport storm troopers and drop troopers correct?

[Lieutenant Mack]

So valkyries can transport storm troopers and drop troopers correct?

Yes, they can transport those units. Note that on the tuen that you land to unload your troops, you may not shoot.

[The GrimSqueaker]

To add onto Mack's explanation, you may also unload from the VTOL position so that while you may not fire in your opponents turn you may fire in your own subsequent turn as per the long and drawn out discussion above. That is the situation described in the IA:1 Q&A.

[Battle Armour]

lol thanks everyone for the help, I think I'm going to definately start using some air support. Vulture and valkyries make great heavy weapon platoon substitutes.

[Getz]

Lastly, I feel its very foolish to VTOL your aircraft... the difference between an aircraft on a strafing run and one in VTOL is about the same as swapping a landraider for a rhino... maybe, just maybe, if you manage to disable all the str5+ weapons on the battlefield you might get more use out of VTOL. Remember, when you declare VTOL the opponent shoots as normal. No hit penelty, no glancing hits, etc. If your aircraft somehow survives that, yes you get two back to back shooting phases, but then the plane is gone for another full turn as it won't make an imediate attack run on the oppoent's turn.

Just a note - Tilara has made a single mistake here.  Flyers in VTOL still count as fast moving skimmers with respect to glancing hits only (and also requiring 6's to hit in assault) and they still benefite from the 12 range reduction on incoming fire.

You only lose the 6's to hit advantage by going into VTOL.