Topic: _IG Valkyrie_

[Pvt. Morvegil Forodhir]

Anyoen use this? Is it any good?

[Lieutenant Mack]

I have used it in the past. I love it for several reasons, but first off, are there better ways to spend points... yes, but anywyas, the Valkyrie can earn its points back a few ways... First I like it loaded with a multi missle launcher you can lay down some serious support fire against infantry and even light armor with this set up. You would have 2 blast templates, door mounted heavy bolters and 1 multi laser. Thats alot of pretty hard hitting dice rolling each turn, and they can all but clear out any troops around your drop zone. Add a tank busting Vulture and you have all you need to round out a good Guard drop troop army. As for its point/money cost... well its high in both of those departments, but it sure is worth it just for the cool factor

[Captain Aurillien]

I have used it in the past. I love it for several reasons, but first off, are there better ways to spend points... yes, but anywyas, the Valkyrie can earn its points back a few ways... First I like it loaded with a multi missle launcher you can lay down some serious support fire against infantry and even light armor with this set up. You would have 2 blast templates, door mounted heavy bolters and 1 multi laser. Thats alot of pretty hard hitting dice rolling each turn, and they can all but clear out any troops around your drop zone. Add a tank busting Vulture and you have all you need to round out a good Guard drop troop army. As for its point/money cost... well its high in both of those departments, but it sure is worth it just for the cool factor

I'll just correct some of your mistakes. The rocket pods are heavy 2, meaning you get 4 blasts per turn. This doubles as you can attack in your turn and your opponents. So its 8 blasts.

I have a Valkyrie and it is awesome. I love it. Its expensive but is nigh untouchable and has earn its points and more back in most of my games. You can also seriously scare your opponent with it.

[Lieutenant Mack]

I have used it in the past. I love it for several reasons, but first off, are there better ways to spend points... yes, but anywyas, the Valkyrie can earn its points back a few ways... First I like it loaded with a multi missle launcher you can lay down some serious support fire against infantry and even light armor with this set up. You would have 2 blast templates, door mounted heavy bolters and 1 multi laser. Thats alot of pretty hard hitting dice rolling each turn, and they can all but clear out any troops around your drop zone. Add a tank busting Vulture and you have all you need to round out a good Guard drop troop army. As for its point/money cost... well its high in both of those departments, but it sure is worth it just for the cool factor

I'll just correct some of your mistakes. The rocket pods are heavy 2, meaning you get 4 blasts per turn. This doubles as you can attack in your turn and your opponents. So its 8 blasts.

I have a Valkyrie and it is awesome. I love it. Its expensive but is nigh untouchable and has earn its points and more back in most of my games. You can also seriously scare your opponent with it.

To correct your corrections, you do not get to fire in each your turn and your opponents. If you VTOL, all firing is done in your turn, however if you use the flyer rules, that is when you do your attack run in your opponents turn. If you decide to VTOL after your strafe, then after your opponent has finished his turn, it goes back to your turn. At that point you can decide to remain in VTOL during your movement phase or stay and shoot. Then your next turn, during movement phase, you can leave the board before you shoot, and come back on with a succesful reserves roll and do your strafing run again during his phase. Also note that you MUST make a reserve roll to see if you get your flyer back each turn. It does not automatically come back after it has done its straffing run.
When you stop to think about, does it really make sense that FW would make a model that could fire in both your turn and your opponents? If they did, do you think anybody would ever want to play you, or better yet, wouldnt everybody have one?

[HiveFleetEzekial]

and to further correct.  they FAQ'd the MMR launchers (atleast for valkyries.. what i saw) while he may have been off about the turns for firing, the # of templates was rcorrect.  8 templates in 1 turn!.  (it's on FW's site  hp://www.forgeworld.co.uk/PDF/qanda.pdf )  they come in sets of 2, and it's 1 set per hardpoint.  valkyrie has 2 hardpoints   (it's become my favourate flier..   closest thing to helghast dropships 40k's got right now)



scratch all that.. i just re-re-RE-read the FAQ on it(2nd page of it).  a valkyrie going into vtol to drop troops.. CAN fire in both players turns!!!   and firing 8 templates per....   holy F***!!  16 templates!!   granted they're only s4 ap6..  but,  16 templates!! 

and it comes back in on 2+, per normal flyer rules,  not reserves.

as for why hardly anyone would have one.  you mentioned just the reason earlier.  it's $cost.  not everyone is going to have 1 (yet i plan on 2 lol   but i'll swap 1HP for a set of helstrikes,  for both probably, just to keep things a bit more fair)   but those that do "it's worth it just for the cool factor"

[Lieutenant Mack]

and to further correct.  they FAQ'd the MMR launchers (atleast for valkyries.. what i saw) while he may have been off about the turns for firing, the # of templates was rcorrect.  8 templates in 1 turn!.  (it's on FW's site  hp://www.forgeworld.co.uk/PDF/qanda.pdf )  they come in sets of 2, and it's 1 set per hardpoint.  valkyrie has 2 hardpoints   (it's become my favourate flier..   closest thing to helghast dropships 40k's got right now)



scratch all that.. i just re-re-RE-read the FAQ on it(2nd page of it).  a valkyrie going into vtol to drop troops.. CAN fire in both players turns!!!   and firing 8 templates per....   holy F***!!  16 templates!!   granted they're only s4 ap6..  but,  16 templates!! 

and it comes back in on 2+, per normal flyer rules,  not reserves.

as for why hardly anyone would have one.  you mentioned just the reason earlier.  it's $cost.  not everyone is going to have 1 (yet i plan on 2 lol   but i'll swap 1HP for a set of helstrikes,  for both probably, just to keep things a bit more fair)   but those that do "it's worth it just for the cool factor"

Well to correct your correction of my correction. You better double check your FAQ, first, the Valkyrie can only have 1 set of Missle Pods (the Vulture does have 2 hardpoints, not the Valkyrie), thats 2 templates per pod and there are only 1 pod under each wing. And NO way any unit ever can fire in both your part of a turn and your opponents. It is confusing the way flyers work, and yes I was wrong about when it comes back into play( it is a 2+ after the first turn it arrives) The first turn it arrives is always on your opponents movement turn. After all that, you can choose to VTOL it and keep in on the board until your part of the turn. When YOUR turn arrives, you can either choose to keep it on the board thus firing it during your shooting phase, thus keeping it in VTOL through your opponents turn (making it vulnerable to your opponents fire, and read the rules, it becomes alot easier to hit, no longer needing 6's to hit) If your unit was in VTOL mode when your opponents turn started, you may NOT shoot during his turn and must wait until your turn to shoot again, however if you wish to leave VTOL, you must do it during your movement phase, thus costing you a turn of shooting. Again, does it make sense that there would be a unit out there that could do all the things you suggest and shoot in each players part of a turn. While technically the first turn you bring it into play (during your opponents movement phase) you could bring it on to the table, then activate VTOL thus keeping on the table til your part of the turn then during your part of the turn fire it as normal, but this can only really happen once unless you decide to make it leave the table again then bringing it back, but when you think about, you loose a turn of firing because it has to leave the table during your movement phase which is before your shooting phase. Your best bet is to always have it come in on your opponents turn, strafe, shoot then leave. This makes it very hard to hit (you need 6's) but there is the risk that you mau not get it back the next turn (by rolling a 1).

EDIT:

And after just reading the FAQ on the valkyrie, the part that it is talking about that you both have refered to is the exact question we are debating here, but if you notice the first sentence in the response from FW is " That is because it is not right!" they then go to explain why. Also note, that if you decide to drop troops off, you may not shoot in the turn which you drop them off. again, here is the link: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/PDF/qanda.pdf

[HiveFleetEzekial]

k, conceding the point on HPs,  (saw the V and ended up reading as valkyrie to me)

but the point on firing,  by the example they gave  "can fire on their turn.. and again on your turn leaving.

in their answer to "how does the valkyrie VTOl mode work"  just above their italicized Example 2.   last sentence.. "the valkyrie..  could then return fire, and fire again in your turn before leaving the table.


ehh  so i was off on the hardpoint thing (taking that it has 2 mounts, 1 under each wing.    but then vulture has 4 and counts as 2,  so i can see that now).  but they say you can fire in both turns, if using VTOL  (if you land, ya still can't shoot though,  and neither is just on the pass through on their turn) 

so that'd mean the 16 templates are possible for the vulture, instead of the valkyrie..  (more of an excuse for me to get more than 1 maybe)

[Lieutenant Mack]

k, conceding the point on HPs,  (saw the V and ended up reading as valkyrie to me)

but the point on firing,  by the example they gave  "can fire on their turn.. and again on your turn leaving.

in their answer to "how does the valkyrie VTOl mode work"  just above their italicized Example 2.   last sentence.. "the valkyrie..  could then return fire, and fire again in your turn before leaving the table.


ehh  so i was off on the hardpoint thing (taking that it has 2 mounts, 1 under each wing.    but then vulture has 4 and counts as 2,  so i can see that now).  but they say you can fire in both turns, if using VTOL  (if you land, ya still can't shoot though,  and neither is just on the pass through on their turn) 

so that'd mean the 16 templates are possible for the vulture, instead of the valkyrie..  (more of an excuse for me to get more than 1 maybe)

They are being a bit sarcastic in their response, and I wish they hadnt done that because it does confuse the matter, but re-read it, they refer to the incorrect example when they finish the paragraph, but remember in the first sentence of their response, they say "that is beacuse it is not right" they way they wrote that response is so screwy but trust me you cant do it that way, I am sure I am correct on this matter. I am not dissing the Valkyrie, I love the model ( I have 3 and a Vulture and a Thunderbolt) I just dont want anyone buying one thinking it is this all powerful flying death machine that gets to shoot in each phase of the game, because it does not, it is in fact a somewhat limited model that does soak up the points and often does not earn its points back.

[HiveFleetEzekial]

durr nevermind..  brains a bit on overload i guess.  "in the above example"   hmm  didn't show up first couple times.  (again, admitedly i'm still new to guard.. so i haven't read over their stuff nearly as much as SM and 'nids.     but still..  i plan on getting 2 all the same.  thinking of maybe a thunderbolt too, since the helghast had those miny dart-flyer things.)


i'll concede defeat on this one   lol

[Lieutenant Mack]

As well you should have 2, it is an awesome model, and when I saw them in DoW Winter Assault, I almost wet myself, very cool to see it in action. The Thunderbolt rocks as well!!!!

[Pvt. Morvegil Forodhir]

And now I heard GW say that you dont need your opponenets permission anymore for ForgeWorld Models.

[Major Krämer]

Well that¡s pretty argueable. If you live in the US or in the UK that ay befine, but here is Spain you still have to ask permission to use Forgeworld, and agreement betweenplayers can never be bad. Look it from the opponents side, would you like to see a behemoth of destruction like the Baneblade rolling into the battlefield and you didn't know?

['Mark']

Well that¡s pretty argueable. If you live in the US or in the UK that ay befine, but here is Spain you still have to ask permission to use Forgeworld, and agreement betweenplayers can never be bad. Look it from the opponents side, would you like to see a behemoth of destruction like the Baneblade rolling into the battlefield and you didn't know?

Well, a baneblade is a super heavy and you definitely need opponent's permission to field more than one FOC.

[Battle Armour]

Could you guys clarify what is correct about valkyries and vultures, because I'm lost.

[Chosen Man]

What do you need clarified about the two, you mean what they equate to?

Valkyries: They are like the modern armed Russian Hind/American Black Hawk, able to haul troops. Except for the Droptroop army in IA3 they can only be used by Stormies I believe.

Vultures: They are like your current Apache or Super Cobra gunships.

VERY NICE expensive toys if you got them! 

[Captain Aurillien]

Im sorry Mack but I still must disagree. It says under the heading Second Strike that "it may make further attack runs in the next friendly players turn". This means that not only it fights in both yours and your opponents turns but if you were in a multiplayer battle then it would get to attack in everyones turn (as long as you made the approprite dice roll). So really its effectiveness increases with the number of players on the battle feild.

[Battle Armour]

No, what I meant was, how do the weapons work ie: how many templates a turn? thanks for the comparison though.

[Lieutenant Mack]

Im sorry Mack but I still must disagree. It says under the heading Second Strike that "it may make further attack runs in the next friendly players turn". This means that not only it fights in both yours and your opponents turns but if you were in a multiplayer battle then it would get to attack in everyones turn (as long as you made the approprite dice roll). So really its effectiveness increases with the number of players on the battle feild.

Aurillien I really think you are bending rules here. The way you insist the rules are portrayed just doent make sense. Your Quote refers to the Valkyrie being able to then attack in your turn when entering VTOL. You can never make attack runs as normal in your turn, only your opponents. VTOL is the only way you can get your Valks to be used in your turn, and yes again technically the first turn you bring it on in your opponents turn, you must declare that you are enetering VTOL thus allowing your opponent to target it with his normal BS then after you shoot and his turn is over, it stays on in your turn and you can then fire in your turn, so yes in that turn in which this happens you get 2 attacks. I am goin to double check with another friend of mine who owns a few of these himself, but this is the way we have both interpreted the rules.

[Getz]

Okay, I'm going to try and clear this up once and for all

Valks must come into play as flyers - ie. during your opponents turn - at which point they may choose to shoot and go into VTOL.

Once in VTOL they act as normal vehicles.  This means that a Valk can shoot in both you opponents turn and your turn in sucession, but from this point on they act in accordance with the normal turn sequence.

It is possible to repeat this trick by having the Valk leave the table and make another attack run, but first the Valk must disengage at the end of your turn, then be rolled for from reserves in your next turn (returning on a 2+) and make it's attack run during your opponents next turn as previously described.

In short, it is impossible for a Valkyrie to get more than 5 turns of shooting in a six turn game (it always has to start in reserve so it always misses out on the first round of shooting) but what it can do is "bunch up" two of it's shooting phases by firing during your opponents turn and then yours.

Incidentally, Valkyries can be taken as a transport option all kinds of Stormtroopers (including Grenadiers) and for any Guard Infantry unit in an IG army with the Drop Troops doctrine.

[HiveFleetEzekial]

arrr  make up ye mind mack..   first ye say we canne fire in both player turns("And NO way any unit ever can fire in both your part of a turn and your opponents."), now ye say we can..?   which ye gonna go for?

(bad accent.. just woke up lol)