Topic: Codex wishlisting....

[Lachdonin]

If you want to restore them to Termie killers of old, then give them a chance to generate 2 wounds on the to hit roll.

I think that would be a seriously poor direction to take them. They haven't been Terminator Killers since 3rd edition, and that battlefield role has passed elsewhere. If your Banshees are in melee with Terminators, you've screwed up, end of story.

They do definitely need some boost to Marine Killing though. But that's a problem they've had for some time, and Banshee's have struggled to find a place for several editions.

Spears should get hit and run back, their mechanic needs it.

I actually haven't had any problem with this. I've found that Spears have a pretty strong alpha strike, and are quite good monster-hunters right now. If you charge them into a 10 man unit, you run into problems, but that hasn't been their forte for 3 editions now (and to be honest, I haven't used them that way since 2nd edition). In general, i actually think Spears are in one of the best positions under the current rules.

Psykers though... I've lost more Warlocks this edition than in the previous 20 years. Literally my first power of 8th edition resulted in a dead Warlock. Something definitely needs to be done about Eldar Psykers...

[Saim-Dann]

Totally agree with you, Lachdonin!
My last 2 games were against Grey Knights and Deathguard. Although the last game was with the Doggies, both opposing armies out psyched the Eldar. They had more punch/powers/toughness than the meager Farseer/Warlock.

Our Eldar are waaaaay down the list for psychic supremacy. Thanks for the venting op... Pointy ears forever!! 

[magenb]

I think that would be a seriously poor direction to take them. They haven't been Terminator Killers since 3rd edition, and that battlefield role has passed elsewhere. If your Banshees are in melee with Terminators, you've screwed up, end of story.

Termies in 5th, are really expensive point wise, so most people I have played against run them as 5 man squads. Since in 5th power weapons removed armour saves Banshee's were brutal. A full squad could wipe them out.

6th was when power weapons took a beating and it was pointless to run them against termies. They would still do OK against normal marines, but given the squad sizes of power armoured marines it was less favourable. So while they were rising in video games, table top was nerfing off the table.

Spears should get hit and run back, their mechanic needs it.

I actually haven't had any problem with this. I've found that Spears have a pretty strong alpha strike, and are quite good monster-hunters right now.

Yep, they hit hard, but if you're smart and survive the first charge from spears, you'll stay in combat and bring in your counter assault squad. Spears are also well known now, so yeah, unless you can hide the unit, they get fire rained on them so less of the are making that strike.

Psykers though... I've lost more Warlocks this edition than in the previous 20 years.

Literally my first power of 8th edition resulted in a dead Warlock. Something definitely needs to be done about Eldar Psykers...

Yeah this is where fluff and game play really breaks for CWE. Their entire race are Psykers, I don't see how they are soo bad at it.

Given how 8th is all about force multipliers, CWE should really be sprinkling warlocks and seers through an army. Super fluffy and can still be countered.




 

[Wyddr]

Psykers though... I've lost more Warlocks this edition than in the previous 20 years.

Literally my first power of 8th edition resulted in a dead Warlock. Something definitely needs to be done about Eldar Psykers...

Yeah this is where fluff and game play really breaks for CWE. Their entire race are Psykers, I don't see how they are soo bad at it.

Given how 8th is all about force multipliers, CWE should really be sprinkling warlocks and seers through an army. Super fluffy and can still be countered.

The thing is that *everybody* is bad at being psykers. Eldar are still the best among the bad. Tzeentch psychics suck. Thousand Sons psychics suck (exception for Magnus). Psychic power is straight up lackluster for literally everybody.

The Eldar, meanwhile, have some of the most useful psychic powers, have means to make them more reliable (with Farseers), and have access to more psykers for fewer points than almost anybody else.

Eldar psychic power is fine compared to other factions--just fine. What you really want to a revision to the psychic phase overall.

[Aurics Pride]

Psykers though... I've lost more Warlocks this edition than in the previous 20 years.

Literally my first power of 8th edition resulted in a dead Warlock. Something definitely needs to be done about Eldar Psykers...

Yeah this is where fluff and game play really breaks for CWE. Their entire race are Psykers, I don't see how they are soo bad at it.

Given how 8th is all about force multipliers, CWE should really be sprinkling warlocks and seers through an army. Super fluffy and can still be countered.

The thing is that *everybody* is bad at being psykers. Eldar are still the best among the bad. Tzeentch psychics suck. Thousand Sons psychics suck (exception for Magnus). Psychic power is straight up lackluster for literally everybody.

The Eldar, meanwhile, have some of the most useful psychic powers, have means to make them more reliable (with Farseers), and have access to more psykers for fewer points than almost anybody else.

Eldar psychic power is fine compared to other factions--just fine. What you really want to a revision to the psychic phase overall.

Everyone sucks at Psychic unless it's smite spam.
To be honest there are a few armies out there that are still able to make very good use of Psychic powers, Grey Knights are currently very good if built properly. I won't even go into Brimstones and Malefic lords....
The Psychic powers is one areas where the Eldar have really lost their character, the fluff builds them up as being these great psychic beings but although they have a couple of decent powers there is nothing actually special about them.

[Fenris]

Psychic powers has been in a bad place since 6th ed.
There are other ways to get the buffs without having to risk either failure nor POTW.
IG/AM orders, Tau incantations, buff characters and so on.

CWE really needs someting special like no rolling for psychic tests, they are automatically successful. Denying still needs to be rolled for.
Nids should on the same note be allowed to deny psychic power automatically (if in range) but still roll when casting.
When conflicts arise you still need to roll the dices to see if the power is successful or not, and then perils comes into play as well.

So if anyone wants to deny Eldar powers, eldar still need to roll as normal, suffering perils and other tings. Eldar vs Nids would mean trouble for Eldar psychers.

Also some eldar powers needs fixing, fortune should go back to re-roll saves and guide should either make weapons twin-linked or grant re-rolls in both ranged and melee.
More powers to choose from should also come back, like Executioner, Mind War & Eldritch storm at least one of them should be decent against hordes, while another should be able to snipe characters.

While vehicles are not really a thing anymore, having the Eldritch storm moving a unit 2D6" in a random direction, should not be OP. It may even be it's primary function, to get opposing units away from objectives or characters flown out in the open. D6 hits S3 AP- D1, pinning &/or blind is sufficient IMO.

[magenb]

CWE really needs someting special like no rolling for psychic tests, they are automatically successful. Denying still needs to be rolled for.
Nids should on the same note be allowed to deny psychic power automatically (if in range) but still roll when casting.
When conflicts arise you still need to roll the dices to see if the power is successful or not, and then perils comes into play as well.

Automatic casting and auto denying are interesting options, but depending on what can be cast, it might be a little op. 4th ed Eldar had rune of witness and runes of warding, I think a similar thing could be used. Basic one made it risking for enemy psykers to cast, whie the other made casting eldar spells easier.

I would still want to back these up with wargear options for Warlock/spiritseers to give them a psychic hood style arrangement.

[Blazinghand]

CWE really needs someting special like no rolling for psychic tests, they are automatically successful. Denying still needs to be rolled for.
Nids should on the same note be allowed to deny psychic power automatically (if in range) but still roll when casting.
When conflicts arise you still need to roll the dices to see if the power is successful or not, and then perils comes into play as well.

Automatic casting and auto denying are interesting options, but depending on what can be cast, it might be a little op. 4th ed Eldar had rune of witness and runes of warding, I think a similar thing could be used. Basic one made it risking for enemy psykers to cast, whie the other made casting eldar spells easier.

I would still want to back these up with wargear options for Warlock/spiritseers to give them a psychic hood style arrangement.

Runes of the Farseer currently act as a more weak version of Runes of Witnessing and Runes of Warding, strengthening the odds both of successful psychic checks and successful Deny The Witch checks.

[magenb]

Runes of the Farseer currently act as a more weak version of Runes of Witnessing and Runes of Warding, strengthening the odds both of successful psychic checks and successful Deny The Witch checks.

Yeah, the current version is better for casting, but doesn't make the enemy pysker think twice about casting theirs due to the significantly increased chance of suffering from perils under the old version. Eldar mind games.. so much fun

[The Reborn]

I want three things only....

Real character and flavour from craftworld-tailored rules similar to what we've been seeing with the Admec and Guard codexes....but with more oomph!

Lower points on the Wraithknight, which is just stupidly over-costed compared to the Imperial ones.

An Avatar to be proud of. One that can actually make combat without being obliterated by sodding lascannons halfway across the board....
I would be happy to pay Mortarion points for a tougher ass-kicking survivable Khaine....

[Lord of Winter and War]

How is your avatar being shot from across the table? It's a character and can only be targeted if it's the closest unit.

[Scorn]

I've been nothing but happy with the Avatar so far in 8th.  He's only fallen to Gulliman and most of a Custodes Army. Otherwise he's rampaged through Tyranid monstrous creatures, armoured IG lists, Greater Daemons and more.

His status as a character is huge in keeping him alive (well that and a screen of blood mad Guardians).  He's always made it into combat.

[Aoitora]

I'd love to have our old version of battle focus back as it was my favourite rule. I didn't think it would happen as everyone who could JSJ lost their ability to do so however Tallarn can order their tanks to be very similar to the old battle focus so here's hoping.

Banshee masks preventing overwatch and voluntary fall back, 2nd ed style!

Mandiblasters like they were in 3rd, 4th or 7th ed books. I want more horde killy and not low chance for mortal wounds.

Avenger catapults to drop by like 50-75%

Lasblasters back to their previous assault profile as I don't like getting them so close to gain the most from their shooting.

Also I dont like the hawk grenade pack for similar reasons to the mandiblasters.

Warp spiders able to bounce in the assault phase.

Exarchs with improved WS/BS

But if I could only have one thing then it'd have to be plasma! We have plasma grenades and plasma missiles not *shudders* sunburst 

[The Reborn]

KS, think about it, as you advance, and your opponent too, more weapons are brought to bear. There are only so many units you can sensibly use to baby mind the Avatar. Once these die, your main man is next.
Scorn, I'd like your opponents. You screen Khaine with guardians and your opponent can't get past it? Lol.😊

[magenb]

Mandiblasters like they were in 3rd, 4th or 7th ed books. I want more horde killy and not low chance for mortal wounds.

I'm in two minds about this one, Mortal wounds is what makes people think twice when they have a character or expensive infantry with invuls in strike range. In a lot oc cases it 1-2 models just gone.

Math wise,  against marines, (10 man scorpion squad) 1.67 mortal wounds vs 1.11 unsaved wounds from the extra attack. Even if only 7 scorpion are in mandiblaster range you chances of killing the marine are here vs 10 extra normal attacks.

Maybe change is so the Exarch can select either the extra attack or mandiblaster fire where an extra swing from a claw or biting blade would be handy.

[Blazinghand]

Mandiblasters like they were in 3rd, 4th or 7th ed books. I want more horde killy and not low chance for mortal wounds.

I'm in two minds about this one, Mortal wounds is what makes people think twice when they have a character or expensive infantry with invuls in strike range. In a lot oc cases it 1-2 models just gone.

Math wise,  against marines, (10 man scorpion squad) 1.67 mortal wounds vs 1.11 unsaved wounds from the extra attack. Even if only 7 scorpion are in mandiblaster range you chances of killing the marine are here vs 10 extra normal attacks.

Maybe change is so the Exarch can select either the extra attack or mandiblaster fire where an extra swing from a claw or biting blade would be handy.

FWIW I don't consider Marines the optimal target for Scorps. I think they're better suited through chewing piles of guardsmen and so on. Against 10 guardsmen, 1.67 mortal wounds doesn't match up imo to an additional 10 attacks, which should pan out to 3 wounds after saves.

That being said, Scorps don't feel great right now with the mortal wounds. Not sure what the solution there is.

[Lord of Winter and War]

KS, think about it, as you advance, and your opponent too, more weapons are brought to bear. There are only so many units you can sensibly use to baby mind the Avatar. Once these die, your main man is next.
Scorn, I'd like your opponents. You screen Khaine with guardians and your opponent can't get past it? Lol.😊

What are the rest of the units in your army doing? The Avatar isn't something you just throw into a list. Unless you're being tabled, I don't see why you can't have other things around the Avatar. Any large unit with Conceal and Fortune on it should survive a decent amount of shooting.

[magenb]

Scorn, I'd like your opponents. You screen Khaine with guardians and your opponent can't get past it? Lol.😊

aaahh I think I found your problem, you are playing 8th edition on a normal board, here try this one, apparently it fixes everything.

FWIW I don't consider Marines the optimal target for Scorps. I think they're better suited through chewing piles of guardsmen and so on. Against 10 guardsmen, 1.67 mortal wounds doesn't match up imo to an additional 10 attacks, which should pan out to 3 wounds after saves.

That being said, Scorps don't feel great right now with the mortal wounds. Not sure what the solution there is.

Banshee's are great for guardsman, but not much else, so scorpions are kind of the default option for general lists and the Mortal Wounds allows them to hit harder stuff and still go to town on guardsmen, so bit of a balancing act.

[Blazinghand]

FWIW I don't consider Marines the optimal target for Scorps. I think they're better suited through chewing piles of guardsmen and so on. Against 10 guardsmen, 1.67 mortal wounds doesn't match up imo to an additional 10 attacks, which should pan out to 3 wounds after saves.

That being said, Scorps don't feel great right now with the mortal wounds. Not sure what the solution there is.

Banshee's are great for guardsman, but not much else, so scorpions are kind of the default option for general lists and the Mortal Wounds allows them to hit harder stuff and still go to town on guardsmen, so bit of a balancing act.

10 Banshees (1 is Exarch with P Sword) costs the same as 8 Scorps (1 is Exarch with Biting Blade)
Vs MEQ:
Banshees: 21 attacks, 14 hits, 4.67 wounds, 3.89 wounds post-save
Scorps: 14+3 attacks, 9.33+2 hits, 4.67+1.33 wounds, 1.56+0.67 = 2.22 wounds post-save, + 1.3 mortal wounds -> 3.52 wounds

Huh, interestingly, Scorps led by a Biting Blade Exarch pretty much match Banshees against MEQs, when you factor in the mandiblaster mortal wounds.

10 Banshees (1 is Exarch with M Swords) costs the same as 8 Scorps (1 is Exarch with Chainsabres)
vs GEQ:
Banshees: 18+3 attacks, 12+2.67 hits, 6+1.33 wounds, 7.33 wounds post-save
Scorps: 18 attacks, 12 hits, 8 wounds, 5.33 wounds post-save, +1.3 mortal wounds -> 6.63 wounds

Also interestingly, it seems like Banshees outperform Scorps... against everything? Am I doing my math wrong here, or giving people the wrong equipment? I guess the mortal wounds don't really mean too much against Guardsmen, which is why Banshees clean up, and the pswords are more important than the mortal wounds against Marines? I must be making some kind of mistake here, or arming hte exarchs wrong. Please advise.

[Fenris]

@Blazinghand: Scorpions are much better than banshees to knock out things with ++ saves, with the mandiblasters, in addition scorpions have better armour and deployment than the banshees.


However, since we are wishlisting I think banshee powerswords should have better AP. They should also be immune to overwatch, or simply give the opponent a -1 to hit when in close range say within 12", or possibly they are immune to pistols because they can simply dodge them.

Mandiblasters should instead of killing stuff just prevent that model from making any attacks in the current round of combat if hit, and they counts as pistols with a range of 1".