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Offline Irisado

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Deathguard Codex
« on: September 13, 2017, 05:20:27 AM »
Part 1: Stratagems, Relics and Warlord Traits – Warhammer Community

Codex Focus: Death Guard Part 2: Special Rules and Psychic Powers –

There is quite a lot of useful information in these articles.  The Deathguard look pretty handy in this edition.  They're going to be quite tough from the look of the rules and being able to advance and bypass shooting penalties is going to make certain choices more viable for them than for other armies.
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Re: Deathguard Codex
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2017, 07:15:03 AM »
They look pretty solid. Plauge Marines so far are lackluster, so I hope the new codex brings a reason to include them.

Things I'm most worried about is Mortarion (who is going to hit like a brick), and S/T5 plague zombies which'll get a -1 to hit bubble on them.

The Plauge Crawler siege gun looks terrifying, as do the tri-wheeled Blight vehicles.

The army is going to be putting out mortal wounds like crazy too. Kinda scary.
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Offline Aurics Pride

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Re: Deathguard Codex
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2017, 02:01:48 AM »
The Death Guard have had a massive boost with this codex by the looks of it. As Killersquid has said it appears that they are going to be throwing out Mortal wounds for fun.
If you think that Magnus is tough enough to kill then don't look forward to facing Mortarion!
I've got a local Death Guard player who is complaining at the loss of Heldrakes, Maulerfiends, Raptors etc but it certainly seems that the stuff they have gained is much better than those units!
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Re: Deathguard Codex
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2017, 03:20:00 AM »
They throw out mortal wounds like sweets?  Oh, my main opponent plays with deathguard.  I think I'm gonna have a bad time.  :P

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Re: Deathguard Codex
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2017, 08:07:26 AM »
I've got a local Death Guard player who is complaining at the loss of Heldrakes, Maulerfiends, Raptors etc but it certainly seems that the stuff they have gained is much better than those units!

If he assembled and painted those models in Deathguard colours, I can appreciate why this would be annoying.  The positive side is, however, that the bonuses for the Deathguard offset any units to which they no longer have access in my opinion.  In addition, previous incarnations of the rules for the Deathguard didn't have access to all the units which regular Chaos Space Marine armies do, so it was bound to happen again at some point.  If I were a Deathguard player, I'd be pretty excited about the forthcoming codex.
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Offline Aurics Pride

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Re: Deathguard Codex
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2017, 01:03:13 PM »
I've got a local Death Guard player who is complaining at the loss of Heldrakes, Maulerfiends, Raptors etc but it certainly seems that the stuff they have gained is much better than those units!

If he assembled and painted those models in Deathguard colours, I can appreciate why this would be annoying.  The positive side is, however, that the bonuses for the Deathguard offset any units to which they no longer have access in my opinion.  In addition, previous incarnations of the rules for the Deathguard didn't have access to all the units which regular Chaos Space Marine armies do, so it was bound to happen again at some point.  If I were a Deathguard player, I'd be pretty excited about the forthcoming codex.

Very much agreed,
I think the loss of Raptors is what has hurt him most as he always seems to enjoy using them. On the whole though I think the new codex units look considerably more effective than the Raptors though and to be honest unless there is something hidden in the Death Guard book I'd already put them a tier above the standard Chaos Codex.
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Re: Deathguard Codex
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2017, 06:48:34 PM »
I've got a local Death Guard player who is complaining at the loss of Heldrakes, Maulerfiends, Raptors etc but it certainly seems that the stuff they have gained is much better than those units!

If he assembled and painted those models in Deathguard colours, I can appreciate why this would be annoying.  The positive side is, however, that the bonuses for the Deathguard offset any units to which they no longer have access in my opinion.  In addition, previous incarnations of the rules for the Deathguard didn't have access to all the units which regular Chaos Space Marine armies do, so it was bound to happen again at some point.  If I were a Deathguard player, I'd be pretty excited about the forthcoming codex.

Very much agreed,
I think the loss of Raptors is what has hurt him most as he always seems to enjoy using them. On the whole though I think the new codex units look considerably more effective than the Raptors though and to be honest unless there is something hidden in the Death Guard book I'd already put them a tier above the standard Chaos Codex.

He can always take an additional detachment of <Evil Detachment> army using the base CSM rules. Then have them fitting in the army thematically and he loses nothing in his actual playing force. Just those units don't get to benefit from any special Death Guard rules, which I believe most of them would not have anyways.
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Offline Neo-Buzzard

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Re: Deathguard Codex
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2017, 09:49:12 AM »
Having played Death Guard for 10+ years, I'm only really disappointed in 2 things. The loss of normal terminators, and the lack of options for plague champions. I knew my raptors weren't "fluffy" when I bought them so I'll only miss telling people to feel the weight of the foam they're in.

I'm thinking of converting my old chaos termies to blight lords  (just need power sword/power axes and a bunch of combi-weapons though they won't look so "nurgle-y).

Plague Champions could at least get the option for a balesword or something. They seem a little bland. My two cents
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Offline Killersquid

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Re: Deathguard Codex
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2017, 02:22:08 PM »
It looks like the new blight terminators have the same options (and more some), so you'll be able to use your terminators just fine.

Are plague champions the squad sgt. for plague marines? Can't they get powerfists?
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Offline Neo-Buzzard

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Re: Deathguard Codex
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2017, 07:09:05 PM »
It looks like the new blight terminators have the same options (and more some), so you'll be able to use your terminators just fine.

Are plague champions the squad sgt. for plague marines? Can't they get powerfists?

They can get a power fist, replace their bolter with a bolt pistol, plasma pistol or plasma gun, and can exchange their plague knife for a plague sword.

I would have liked them to have access to the weapon list in the codex like normal, maybe have some diversity in my unit comps.
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Offline magenb

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Re: Deathguard Codex
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2017, 09:34:33 PM »
The codex does seem to have a number of ways to generate mortal wounds, then there is Mortarion.. thats just utter filth.. excuse the pun.. but high T, with 3+/4++ and then 5+ per wound, then their is the cc attacks, then Mortal Wounds for each unit within 7", the list of stuff just gets piled on...

new dex, new over the top rules to encourage people to buy the new insanely priced model... that 7th edition smell seems to be coming back.


Offline Killersquid

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Re: Deathguard Codex
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2017, 10:01:32 PM »
The codex does seem to have a number of ways to generate mortal wounds, then there is Mortarion.. thats just utter filth.. excuse the pun.. but high T, with 3+/4++ and then 5+ per wound, then their is the cc attacks, then Mortal Wounds for each unit within 7", the list of stuff just gets piled on...

new dex, new over the top rules to encourage people to buy the new insanely priced model... that 7th edition smell seems to be coming back.

It's a cool big model, but he's also a lot of points. Gotta way the costs with that. There is a lot of high damage attacks in 8th. Magnus can be dropped T1 a lot of times, Mortarian isn't too much tougher.

I'm not worried about single big models.
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Re: Deathguard Codex
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2017, 10:52:59 PM »
It's a cool big model, but he's also a lot of points. Gotta way the costs with that. There is a lot of high damage attacks in 8th. Magnus can be dropped T1 a lot of times, Mortarian isn't too much tougher.

I'm not worried about single big models.

Its cheaper than a wraithknight in CC wargear. That mortal wound to all units in that radius is just putrid.


Offline Killersquid

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Re: Deathguard Codex
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2017, 12:05:59 AM »
He's still over 400pts. I think it's fine. Folks will get stomped by him the first couple of games, and then learn how to deal with him. Same as anything new.

Also, once all the factions are updated with their own stratagems and such, things will be fine.

I'm more worried about how I'm going to deal with the hordes of poxwalkers. Single big models can be mitigated, 100+ zombies which are fearless and S/T4 are much harder to.

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Re: Deathguard Codex
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2017, 08:07:50 AM »
I'm with you KS. I'm sick to death of playing against hordes already. I've played 8/10 games against various Guard armies and its super annoying. It sucks how the morale thing which would really help to balance horde units is almost always mitigated by easy access "fearless".
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Re: Deathguard Codex
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2017, 08:08:58 AM »
Just throwing this out there. I'm planning on a 10 man unit of plague marines w no upgrades, maybe a plague sword for the champ, then using blight bombardment on them every turn.
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Re: Deathguard Codex
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2017, 06:28:12 PM »
Just throwing this out there. I'm planning on a 10 man unit of plague marines w no upgrades, maybe a plague sword for the champ, then using blight bombardment on them every turn.

Yes, but put a Biologus putrifier near them.

That's 10D6 worth of S4 Plague weapon shots, with each Wound roll of 6 generating a Mortal Wound, now expand that to 20 PM's in 1 units....
Solid T marines with 3+, followed by a 5+.  For only 2 points more than a Dire Avenger...

so much for GW closing the cheese factory.


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Re: Deathguard Codex
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2017, 09:22:27 PM »
Just throwing this out there. I'm planning on a 10 man unit of plague marines w no upgrades, maybe a plague sword for the champ, then using blight bombardment on them every turn.

Yes, but put a Biologus putrifier near them.

That's 10D6 worth of S4 Plague weapon shots, with each Wound roll of 6 generating a Mortal Wound, now expand that to 20 PM's in 1 units....
Solid T marines with 3+, followed by a 5+.  For only 2 points more than a Dire Avenger...

so much for GW closing the cheese factory.

I thought about that but I think a 20 man unit would be too expensive and still need some way across the table. With 10 I can rhino them where I need them and let them go.

Also, anyone else feel like it's going to be hard to find a spot in there lists for termies? I like the Blightbringer too much and having 2 hell brutes with the potential for either of them to shoot twice sounds too enticing. I would really like to bring a unit of blight lords but idk, other options just seem better.
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Re: Deathguard Codex
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2017, 09:44:21 PM »
For only 2 points more than a Dire Avenger...

so much for GW closing the cheese factory.
You really can't compare the point values of a codex unit vs an index unit.  The indexes were released to get everyone playing with rules right off the bat, much like they included the rules for armies in the 3rd edition rule book.  They are pumping out codexes at a phenominal rate and are swiftly making index lists obsolete.  Give them time and I am sure they will adjust the price of Dire Avengers to be appropriate.

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Re: Deathguard Codex
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2017, 01:31:12 AM »
Give them time and I am sure they will adjust the price of Dire Avengers to be appropriate.

The indexes were by all accounts were fairly well balanced to the point that most people were happy with them. A bit of tweaking and all would have been solid.

By not balancing the new codexes against the indexes, you are creating an arms race which by its very nature just destroys that balance that was so hard to get in the first place.

You don't need stuff that pushes the power scale, GW would do rather fine with just adjustments and the odd bit of new/refreshed kit. All it really does is boost sales from those that jump on the bandwagon and punish people who play the game. Its not at 7th ed level yet, but its not a great sign either.

 


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