Topic: first (game) turn assault tactic

[the_humble_terminator]

I just realized....well I had figured this was true, but had never done the math to find out...if you roll for deployment, and you get spearhead...PRAY TO GORK/MORK YOU STEAL INITIATIVE!!!

Basically, I say this besause almost every 1500+point list has a trukk squad, or warbiker/biker nob squad designed to get stuck in ASAP.

Well, think about this...You have the STOLEN first turn and you and your opponent deploy this way: (each vertical line represents 2", horizontal is 1.5")

                                                                                                  (*this is your biker squad/trukk squad)
                                                                                                   l*
                                                                                                   l* l*
                                                                                                   l*  l*
                                                                                                  l      l*
                                                                                                  l
                                                                                                  l                         
                                                                                                  l (**this is could also be a
                                                                                                  l    biker squad/trukk squad)
                                                                        _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _l_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ **__**__**
                                                   o  o  o  o  o                             l                               **    **
                                                      o  o  o  o  o                          l
                                             (your opponent's squad)              l
                                                                                                  l
                                                                                                  l
                                                                          o  o  o  o          l
                                                                            o  o  o  o  o  o
                                                             (your opponent's other squad)
(*/**note: the lines represent the bike models/trukk outline, not the asterisks)
(o note: these represent the bases of the unit you intend to assault)


If your opponent sets up this way, and you deploy as such...HOPE YOU ROLL A 6!

if you do, i did the math!    12" sides to an 90 degree right triangle issues a 16.97" distance from you to the squad pictured.
with a trukk, 12" move, 2.5" deployment (adding .5" for the base width...p.67 BRB diagram infers you can do it this way), plus 6" assault=20.5" assault! Of which you only need about 17" thus, giving you an assault on the first game turn...all opposed?

I know some of you guys probably already knew this, but I wanted to make sure this info was out there.

[SKEETERGOD]

Yes I did this a while back in one of the first times I had used a boarding plank. I hit the SW players rhino/razorback wall on the first turn, and killed so much that he threw in the towel after turn 2.

I posted as such on this forum but many of my fellow orks said that it couldn't be done, that the circle in the center was too big for getting the first turn charge. Yet when I tried to demonstrate that cutting the circle by the radius at the quarter mark was actually shorter than the 24" but I was unable to prove it at the time and was told that there is no way to get a first turn charge with spearhead deployment.

Since then I have done it a few other times, but have not posted it, as too many others think that a 24" circle is 24" across no matter where you cross it.

[Jack_Merridew]

Math rules.  I never steal the init so I never have the ballz to try it.

[Athaga Mor]

radius vs diameter.

great explanation of a solid tactic

[zero88]

Speaking of ways to get an extra few inches (again most probably know this but for those who don't..)

Deploy your trucks at the edge of your deployment zone, but deploy them sideways so that the side of the truck is what is parallel to the deployment zone 'line.' Then according to the rules, pivoting does not count as moving, so then once the game starts you pivot the truck forward then move. I'm not sure what the exact distance gained is but i'm guessing it is around 2". Other armies with longer transports like Dark Eldar raiders gain even more distance.

Not something you would want to do with Battlewagons, but with trucks that have the same armor all around, there's nothing to lose

[the_humble_terminator]

GW might notice this "issue" with spearhead deployment (since first game turn assault is considered unfair to them)
If I were to come up with a similar setup that eliminates the first game turn assault possibility, I'd do it like this:

_______ 
l \            l     
l   \          l
l     \        l
l       \      l
l         \    l
l           \  l


you cannot deploy within 12" of the center line. (which is basically a diagonal pitched battle)

due to the fact that this deployment doesn't allow units to get in the corners, there is basically the same quarter of the table you get to deploy in (give or take a few inches, and, instead of a radius from the center you have a flat line you have to deploy behind. so, basically, knowing that, your actual deployment zones go like this:

_______ 
l \            l     
l   \          l
l     \        l
l       \      l
l         \    l
l           \  l

                                   
_______ 
l       l      l     
l       \     l
l  \     \    l
l    \     \_l
l      \      l
l       l      l

Just thought that if I had to make a similar deployment that eliminated the possibility of a first turn assault, that would be it.....what do you guys think?

[angel of death 007]

the_humble terminator:  very solid tactic indeed.   I like the use of diagrams and all and as such definately think it deserves a place in the tactics on the main board. 

Good Job

A way to eliminate a first turn assault can also be utilizing reserve tactics as well.   Turtling in a corner also can deal a strong hurt to an opponent on turn one..  kind of the diagram you have illustrated in the last post. 

[the_humble_terminator]

the_humble terminator:  very solid tactic indeed.   I like the use of diagrams and all and as such definately think it deserves a place in the tactics on the main board. 

Good Job

Thanks! However, to get this tactic on the "main board" do you mean the 40k general tactics board, or the ork tactics board?

Also:

A way to eliminate a first turn assault can also be utilizing reserve tactics as well.   Turtling in a corner also can deal a strong hurt to an opponent on turn one..  kind of the diagram you have illustrated in the last post.

I am confused by this comment. Reserve rolls are not made until turn 2. Did you mean turn 2? Or do you know something I don't....
Also, on the topic of tactics, I came up with a ghazghkull movement strategy as described at the bottom of THIS POST.

I'm sure we've had this conversation before - no need to double post within an hour when the MODIFY button works perfectly well

[AXEBLADE]

Since then I have done it a few other times, but have not posted it, as too many others think that a 24" circle is 24" across no matter where you cross it.

Lets do some maths and I will prove that it is possible.
The non-deployment Circle is 24" across. this means that the radius of the circle is 12".
Now draw a circle and divide it into quarters. If you place a model on the circumference of the circle in one quarter and another model on the circumference of the circle in the opposite quarter and draw a straight line between them you get a "chord" (a line which connects the circumference of the circle in 2 places without passing through the centre.
If you then connect the circumference where the cord crosses it with the centre point of the circle you get a right angled triangle. Where the chord is the hypotonuse
How do we calculate the hypotonuse of a triangle? we use Pythagoras.
c^2=12^2+1212^12=288
c=16.97"

Given we have a 12" move with a trukk, can disembark 2" from it, using a 1" base and then charge 6" for a total of 21" its fairly easy to get a first turn charge.
Bikes and deffkoptas can obviously do this aswell.

[angel of death 007]

@the_humble_terminator:  the ork tactics section on the WotW main page is what I meant. (and it is there)

Well your topic is first turn assault.  If they are playing a full reserve army there is nothing or possibly very little on the board in turn 1 therefore making a first turn assault not possible.