Topic: 'ard armor, is it worth it?

[JimmyHatfield]

Something Skeetergod mentioned in another thread was how 'ard armor is rarely worth it.  This got my attention because I have been planning on konverting up a few ard boyz and wanted to get a discussion going as to their merits before I apply glue to plastic.  I've been proxying a squad in the last few games, running them at 11 models and joining them to the KFF mek or WB in a trukk. 

With WB they were slugga boyz and with Mek they were shootas with a Big Shoota.  They seemed to stand up to firing pretty well, getting stuck out in the open after killing off the squad they had assaulted.  Pretty sure they died the next round but it was worth it.  The time with the WB i treated them like another Nobz squad and they got murdered in assault. 

are there other, better or similar results that can be garnered?  Should I forgo the armor ugrade for another Kopta or Buggy or maybe a Big Gunz unit?

[jawmonkey]

I don't know about worth it, but how hard is it to put jaw armour and a shoulder plate on 10-30 boys?

Not sure if one should really use them, but I have a habit of using them to guard my second-weaker HQ (Warboss Khornenutz always runs with his Nobs!). Sometimes I'll use them as the boys behind the two 30 Ork 6+ armour boyz; the squad is rarely as big as a normal boys squad, but they rarely all die off at the end of the game and they've almost always gotten something done; there's been a few games where I guess I held them too far back and they just took a couple pot shots and hid in a ruin doing nothing, but that's my fault not the Ard boys.

I mean if you have the points, why not? Might be nice having a big squad of boyz that you might actually get to roll an armour save for.

[kadeton]

I always find that the biggest difference in armour is between 4+ and 3+. Sure, 4+ gives you a save against bolters, which is great, but most common heavy weapons (heavy bolters, autocannons, heavy flamers etc) will ignore your 'eavy armour regardless. One dakka Predator (AC + 2x HB) will make your squad of 'Ard Boyz cry and run for the hills in a single round.

Also, it's generally incredibly easy to get most or all of your boyz a 4+ cover save (as long as you play with enough terrain), which makes 'eavy armour pretty useless at range. In assault it's much more of a difference, but as you've found, a single mob of 12 boyz is pretty easy for lots of opponents to take to school.

I usually find it's more effective to spend the points elsewhere. Nobz can benefit more from 'eavy armour (since they're in combat as much as possible) but it makes them pretty expensive.

If I were you, though, I'd playtest with them for a few more games and find out if they work for you.

[babern]

I had a thread like this a while back so you might want to look for it and loot some ideas.

Personally I only take eavy armour on truk squads because their small size means that they need a better save to stay in CC longer. I you are running a KFF mek with them then it probably isnt worth it, as u will get the 5+ cover save, or as was stated in the previous post you can hide your boys (pesonally I think hiding boys is a waste of time), I use squads of 30 always As i use a green tide style of army so Eavy armour never really appealed to me for my boyz. On Nobz is a different story and I dont take my nobs anywhere without it

[OD from TV]

Remember that the codex states that only one unit may be given the upgrade, which in my opinion is a shame.  Ard Boyz used to be an Elites choice, but I really need to let the last codex go.

Its not that Eavy Armor on Boyz is a bad upgrade, just a costly one.  With a unit of 30 your spending the same amount of points as 3 Mega Nobz or 3 Red Rokkit Buggies.  At the same time you need to be mindful that there are a lot of guns that will punch thru that armor without breaking a sweat, a point which kadeton has beaten me to the punch in delivering.

Check out the BRB pages 290-300, these pages list quick reference sheets for the various races (yes some are outdated due to new codexs).  Take a look for yourself at all the weaponry which is directed at the Boys which Eavy Armor would save against.

When you do, you probably won't be too crazy for the Ard Boyz, which is not my point.

While some people are against tailoring lists for play, it happens.  When my buds know I'm coming to the table with a KoS list they grab some extra Anti-tank, when they know I'm being a Footslogger they grab up some extra Heavy Bolters.  Nothing says you can't do the same, and frankly in my opinion if you know you are going against a Nid List that's essentially just Termagaunts and Tervigons a unit of Ard Boyz would be great.  Same with Footslogger Tau, as rare as those seem these days.

The big reason why Ard Boyz are rarely used is because the expense, even on a Trukk squad those points can practically purchase a SAG (well not the Mek whose shooting it).  But if you have the points and the desire to use them, I say go ahead.  I haven't used mine except in Apoc games for quite a while, but I still think they're some of the best unpainted minis I have in my collection.

Peace
~OD

[SKEETERGOD]

In a regular game (2k or less) if you do not have the extra models and want to burn points, go for the 'ard boys upgrade, otherwise you are just better off with more orks.

The best upgrade for an ork boy is more orks. While it is true that the boys will die to just about any shooting, your opponent still has to roll the dice for them. With the exeption of IG there aren't any armies with enough fire power to wipe out more than one squad in a turn. So the more boys the more he has to kill and the more that make it into combat.

Now in large games (3k or more) the ard boys can really soak up the points, and against IG can absorb some fire power that keeps the other squads alive long enough to get stuck in.

So in smallish games they are not worth the points, in large games they are ok but nothing to brag about. The choice is yours, if you want to spend points on a iffy upgrade that is up to you.

[Gutstikk]

The best upgrade for an ork boy is more orks.

Truer words were never spoken, heh. However, as I tend to field only a single unit of boyz [and lots of em!] I find the upgrade can come in handy. Cover save is better vs most shooting, but keep in mind in close combats the armor save can really make a difference, especially when suffering no retreat wounds. I'd say it can be a helpful upgrade, but generally, you would be better off with just more boys.

I'd like to point out the real value in the upgrade is in painting a few less boys in exchange for having them be a bit more durable.

[Jack_Merridew]

I use them when I know I'm going against flamer spam.  Cover doesn't help when you have to deal with templates, so if I know my buddies are stockpiling the flamers in every squad, I like to sink a bunch of points into some 'ard boyz to go in front of my two other squads of boyz.  They will get the 4+ cover being behind the 'ard boyz, and when the flamers come out, I tend to lose half as many as I would have. 

[angel of death 007]

I can see it being worth it paired with the Mad Doc and a unit of ard boyz.   this way the lighter stuff like hb, hf's and even autocannons won't negate the FNP.  It basically gives ya two chances vs most types of weapons.

[incredibleskulk]

hb and autocanon does not negate fnp.  the only way to negate fnp is double the toughness or ap1 and 2, exception being power weapons, klaws, and fists.  reread the section in the rule book