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Author Topic: 1000 Points MEQ Eldar.  (Read 4705 times)

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Offline Sanctjud

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1000 Points MEQ Eldar.
« on: March 7, 2008, 12:01:07 PM »
CHAOS Eldar, Death Dealers Scouting Force.

Editted for The Big List:

The army is fluff based.  These particular Eldar have coming into the arms of Grandfather Nurgle...they are now the scouting force of my Chaos army... using the speed to strike at critical army elements and pave the way for the footslogging chaos army.

For specifics... I say everyone has MoN, which is represented by the MEQ stats of all my eldar in the force... get it... +1 T for MoN  ;D
It looks very Saim-Hann-ish this list, but it is mostly a conversion project made into an army.

I usually play my eldar army at under 1750 points, Chaos just does so much better with more points... and this type of Eldar list is very refreshing for me... fragile, fast, and with tanks !!!

HQ-Farseer, Jetbike, Fortune, Spear. (118)
HQ-5 Warlocks on Jetbikes, Embolden, Enhance, Destructor, 1 spear. (258)
T- 6 Guardian Jetbikes, w/ 2 Shuriken Cannons. (152)
T- 6 Guardian Jetbikes, w/ 2 Shuriken Cannons. (152)
Hvy- Fire Prism, Holo-fields, Spirit Stones. (160)
Hvy- Fire Prism, Holo-fields, Spirit Stones. (160)

Total: 1000/1000 Points.

HQ:37.6%
E:0%
T:30.4%
FA:0%
Hvy:32%

5 Scoring Units, yes it's on the low side.
2 Vehicles.
18 Models, again, on the low side.

It's also very easy to take out the Farseer and warlocks and replace it with:

Autarch, JB, LL, MB, FG
5 Shining Spears, Exarch, Starlance, withdraw, skilled.

For a more offensive list, but less durability of the fortuned council, and lower anti tank.

Theme: These are Chaos Eldar, dedicated to Nurgle, hence the MEQ stats of all my infantry.  They are the scouting force to my primary Chaos army.

Army details:

Prisms are there for Anti-heavy tank, and secondly for anti-infantry.  VP denial, range maximing limits the amount of return fire.

The guardians are there for anti-light tanks first, anti-infantry second (usually through weight of fire)  They can even enter combat, due to MEQ status.

Council is there to draw fire, if not, they are there for killing tanks if the Prisms need overtime in anti-infantry.
Otherwise, they are a great anti-infantry in the genestealer equivalent, act as tarpit, while slowly causeing wounds through massed armor saves.

On to the main event:

The low model count is made up from the reletive toughness of the units.  Guardians have jump shoot jump, while the warlocks have fortune and the prisms have holo-fields.

I believe my opponent has lots of infantry, a Leman Russ or 2, a hellhound...and I'm not too sure what, we are supposed to suprise each other with our lists...but tailor to the army in general...

What do you guys think. 

My 7 Cents.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 09:14:30 PM by Sanctjud »
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Offline Gutstikk

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Re: 1000 Points MEQ Eldar vs. IG.
« Reply #1 on: March 7, 2008, 12:18:04 PM »
You seem to have been doing quite well with the Chaos Eldar, so no real big offerings. What I might suggest, and this really depends on how aggressively you play your warlocks, is losing the singing spears. Assaulting enemy vehicles with them is often enough to cripple an enemy target and in a protracted combat [the only kind they are likely to engage in] the extra attacks could be quite useful.

With those points and the three extra you already have, you could grab Mind War or Eldritch Storm for the farseer, either of which would be helpful to your army as a whole.

Offline moc065

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Re: 1000 Points MEQ Eldar vs. IG.
« Reply #2 on: March 7, 2008, 01:12:26 PM »
I like it, I would do a few minor tweeks; but that is due to my own personal style... I think it can work for you. (enhance might be nice, or a second Destructor - if you could part with a few Spears.... although I would keep at least 2 and the Farseer just to make sure vehicles go down).

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Offline Sanctjud

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Re: 1000 Points MEQ Eldar vs. IG.
« Reply #3 on: March 7, 2008, 01:34:50 PM »
Yea, my options were:

Farseer + 5 Warlocks on bikes

or

Autarch + 5 Shining Spears

And, versus IG, I thought the Seers + locks would be better.
Shining Spears versus MEQ like armies... but I do like the 'str' and durablility of the warlock squad.

On enhance, do I really need it versus IG.. I'm already WS4 and I4, which is already above average versus them... I think WS 5 and I5 is over the top...

Plus, I don't play such low points anymore, after playing at 1850... that's when the game gets fun IMO, lots of variety and tactics.

Thx for feedback so far.

My 7 Cents.
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Offline Gutstikk

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Re: 1000 Points MEQ Eldar vs. IG.
« Reply #4 on: March 7, 2008, 02:07:23 PM »
Embolden would be more valuable than enhance, though both are good. Generally you might not need enhance; then again, you could end up facing allies, and against some of them the bonus is pretty nice.

Offline moc065

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Re: 1000 Points MEQ Eldar.
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2008, 09:02:11 PM »
CHAOS Eldar, Death Dealers Scouting Force.
HQ-Farseer, Jetbike, Fortune, Spear. (118)
HQ-5 Warlocks on Jetbikes, Embolden, Enhance, Destructor, 1 spear. (258)
T- 6 Guardian Jetbikes, w/ 2 Shuriken Cannons. (152)
T- 6 Guardian Jetbikes, w/ 2 Shuriken Cannons. (152)
Hvy- Fire Prism, Holo-fields, Spirit Stones. (160)
Hvy- Fire Prism, Holo-fields, Spirit Stones. (160)

Total: 1000/1000 Points.

HQ:37.6%
E:0%
T:30.4%
FA:0%
Hvy:32%

5 Scoring Units. 2 Vehicles. 18 Models.

I do not consider Model Count ahuge factor if the army is used well; although there are other things that are holding this army back. Here is my Effectiveness rating.

1.. Anti-tank potential: Every unit has Anti-tank, so full marks here; Excellent (1)
2.. Anti-MEQ potential: The prism have it, and you do have some Mass shooting that will help, so overall; Good (.8 )
3.. Anti-Horde potential: Sort of the same idea as your Anti-Meq potential; Good (.8 )
4.. Ranged Firepower potential: Witht he speed and ranged weapons you doing well in this department anthough the number of shots is a factor; Good (.8 )
5.. Assault potential: Aside form the HQ unit, and thats limited, you don't really have Assault Potential, so overall this department is lacking; Well Below Average (.3)
6.. Scoring Units / point level: Basic Math, its low; Below Average (.4)
7.. Durability or Resilience: With loads of VP denial, and solid Skimmer tanks I think this is pretty decent; Good (.8 )
8.. Flexability (up to 1 point given): Not a lot of differnt options for you to imploy regardless of the enemy ot the situation, but you do have a little diversity built in there so, Slightly Below Average (.5)
9.. Mission Capabiliy (up to 1 point given): Escalation woud hurt a lot, as well as a terrain limited or possibly a City themed battle field, but overall all you do have some good options available to you to compensate in certain areas, Slightly Below Average (.5)
10. Dynamics and/or Theme: Theme wise is solid, and the Dynamics of the units workign Synergetically is very easy to see as well; Excellent (1)

Rates 6.9/10 Others may Rate it differently; but I see plenty of room for "tweeks" without taking away any of its good points. If you wish to discuss ideas on tuning this list up then let me know.

CaHG
« Last Edit: March 19, 2008, 07:16:06 AM by moc065 »
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Offline Sanctjud

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Re: 1000 Points MEQ Eldar.
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2008, 10:24:12 AM »
Thx for scoring it Moc065



5.. Assault potential: Yea, shoot like no tomarrow and hope for not charges on the enemy side, hehe.

6.. Scoring Units / point level: Basic Math, its low; Below Average (.4)

9.. Mission Capabiliy (up to 1 point given): I usually find escalation welcome....you know I'm so used to it by now,  :D, also, it helps with the whole, I don't need to hide my skimmers first turn...frees up area for the jetbikes.

I don't know, maybe if I upped the points I'd get a higher score...I find low points games allow for little variety while still 'looking good'.

Basically I created this army much like my chaos army (getting full marks in synergy, because I wanted it to).

Strong Core of troops, cover fire from prisms, some CC ability from HQ... it's almost exactly like my chaos army...

Oh and scoring units... I'm curious, what would be a better number?

My 1000 point chaos army would have 4... more scoring units would result in me min/maxing though.
Like in this list, I can push it up to 7 (for a nice Nurgley number), but require me to be a git with the troop choices.

My 1000 point tau army would have 5 as well, min/maxing with a warfish/10 guys, lots of Deathrain crisis suits, and min sized kroot squad.

I don't know, I just don't think 1000 points offers us much... that's why I don't play my chaos at 1000 points, other armies are more viable I say.

But thx, I know what to look for when expanding.
I can't wait til the other rate this as well.

My 7 Cents.
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Offline moc065

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Re: 1000 Points MEQ Eldar.
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2008, 11:26:48 AM »
OK, for scoring untis aboaut 6 is the average at 1K (non race specific) and with some armies (like Tau) I have seen as many as 9-10; but most Eldar can do 5-7 easy enough without Min/Max abuse. Take a look at this as it will show you some ways to build a lot more diversity into a themed list.

HQ-Farseer, Jetbike, Fortune, Spear, Runes of Warding. (133)
     OK, I added Runes of Warding for Psycher suppression and you (a Nurgle player) should understand why.
HQ-4 Warlocks on Jetbikes, Embolden, Enhance, 2 Destructors, 2 spear. (226)
     OK, I trimmed 1 guy; but I put almost no value in ablative wounds, also the added Destructor and Spear give it enough ranged potential to make its CC more effective in the long run.
T- 5 Guardian Jetbikes, w/ 1 Shuriken Cannons. Includes Warlock on JB with Destructor and Spear (156)
     OK, the unit is one mike smaller, but another flamer and more anti-tank potential can be huge. The smaller size actually makes it easier to hide in many cases too.
T- 6 Guardian Jetbikes, w/ 2 Shuriken Cannon. (152)
     No change as this is a good unit if there are not too many of them.
Hvy- Fire Prism, Shuri-cannon, Holo-fields, Spirit Stones. (170)
     Simply added a Shuri-cannon as I had the points still and it does give you more short range potential and giveyou back the fire-power that I stole form the 1 JB unit.
Hvy- Fire Prism, Holo-fields, Spirit Stones. (160)
     No change as it is a good unit anyway.

997pts,
Still only 4 Scoring units; but my intent was not to overhaul, just to tweek.
with 18 Figures; Again this looks low, but I put rating potential into this as it often means nothing in real game play. In fact I have run smaller lists that take virtualy no casualties as they are total VP denial lists, winning on slow attrition of the enemy.

Overall though, your anti-tank is higher, the flamers add a lot to crowd control and against MEQ as well, not to mention that CC can be better done as you should be hitting fewer enemies when you get to CC. The synergy and them are the same as are most of the other things..... Like I sais earlier though, it was a decent list to start with, it just could use a few tweek for use on all comers and to give it a little more depth. I hope this sort of thing helps you out.

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Offline Gutstikk

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Wow, critiques are looking like a regular thing almost!
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2008, 01:10:18 AM »
This one's gonna be fun, as I've read a couple of batreps and like what you've been doing, even though it cuts my exquisitely crafted Eldar heart to the core...

For a description of my 5/5 rating system, go here:
http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=146524.0
 
Background: 1
While not covering a specific usage too clearly, you give lots of info on the general theme and considerations that went into crafting this army, even selecting units that could be justified by the fluff behind the force. Additionally, you do a good job of adhering to this background, even in application; as you describe, this force is used for the smaller battles while Nurgle's own CSMs step in for the big fights. Nicely done, and amusing as well, even if guardians cry themselves to sleep at night over what you've done.
 
Composition: .5
It's nice to see the breakdown chart; it covers one main area of composition, which is force allocation. As you are aware, a good amount is spent on troops, but the force has nothing for fast attack and elite. Given your fluff considerations, you at least justify this absence based on what the force is intended to do and how it is intended to do this. No qualms when there's a reason for not spreading things out a bit. However, your unit roles are a little on the weak side; most of this army will fare rather well against enemy vehicles, and may pull some weight against traditional armies [especially with the autarch variant], but you may run into some problmes vs dedicated horde armies. You've got some heavy firepower units that will hurt concentrated enemy elements, but if spread out enough, this could cause some problems. Also, your force is built off of duplicate elements; this means that an enemy strong against a particular unit may have an exaggerated effectiveness against your army by exploiting the same weak points repeatedly. Something to consider.
 
Utility: 1
There's really no fat to trim from these units. All of your upgrades are kept to the barest minimum to promote the resilience theme, either by permitting JSJ or by deflecting actual damage. The few models you do have will be hard to take down. This also reflects nicely on your theme, creating the feel of Nurgle's hideous vitality. I always enjoy seeing armies that will feel on the tabletop how they ought to in the fluff. Destructor and the singing spears are the only upgrades that don't follow this paradigm, and there inclusion is both affordable and understandable.
 
Flexibility: 1
Your troops choices are the weak link here, as the only units that have enemies who they will be unable to touch [AV over 12, toughness over 6 in combat], and also the only units who will have to struggle hard with a good number of targets. However, they are supported by a good number of units who can take on anyone anywhere, and they are the only troops available given your constraints. Still, a warlock would help address this problem, especially at higher points levels. You will probably get creamed in attrition combats, so use those shooting attacks to good effect. The spears variant addresses combat a bit better but is less resilient overall. With such generally expensive units it is hard to strike a balance. This can be made up for by using your speed advantage to direct the flow of battle. Overall, a very flexible force.
 
Ingenuity: .5
You account for the units you are fielding, and outline tactics that utilize their strengths to good effect. You account for some of their weaknesses, but you fall just short of outlining a good process for minimizing their effect - something which would be beneficial, since so many of your units share the same weak points. You may want to explain further the effective use of jetbike teams in close combat when not supported by a CC squad or doom [and probably not fortune, either, as this seems reserved for the council]. A little bit mroe info in these areas could stimulate some good tactical discussion by those viewing the list.
 
Total Score: 4, for an excellent list.
Good job putting this together, connecting the theme to the playstyle, and hitting full utility and flexibility. Could use a bit more polishing up in some content areas, but all in all a very effective presentation of a good army in a concise format. Nicely done.

Offline Sanctjud

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Re: 1000 Points MEQ Eldar.
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2008, 01:56:21 AM »
Thx for feedback... I've been spending my sleepless nights drawing up a 1500 point list to complete the transition from Eldar to Chaos lists...

Now, I know what to focus on... when I make a new thread I'll polish up the fluff/tactics etc... make it look better than most of my college work lol...

My 7 Cents.

Internal Double Post:

Sorry for this brief double post... I'm on a mac right now, and don't know how to copy and paste (the shortcut on keyboard (no right click on mouse)), so that I can delete the other post .... etc.. I'll fix this at around 6:00pm when i get home.

So, before I start a new thread, what would you guys pick as a theme for the 500 point expansion, sort of a preview:

1. Locust Swarm
2. Full Force Council
3. Spearhead
4. Super fluffy

My 7 Cents.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2008, 10:46:47 PM by Sanctjud »
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Offline Gutstikk

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Re: 1000 Points MEQ Eldar.
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2008, 01:34:51 PM »
Might consider moving destructor-locks into the troops choices, and turn the council to all CC. Lets them get stuck in quick without wasting points on stuff outside their specialty, while giving your troops choices an out against things like walkers that might assault them, as well as some excellent close-in support.

Don't know what you mean by super-fluffy, but that's always the route I like to take first.

Offline ranger_55

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Re: 1000 Points MEQ Eldar.
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2008, 01:52:52 PM »
Quote
Don't know what you mean by super-fluffy, but that's always the route I like to take first.

Sound good to me, I'd like to hear some more about it.
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Offline Sanctjud

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Re: 1000 Points MEQ Eldar.
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2008, 12:06:57 AM »
Some more teaser info as I number crunch and sleep over the 1500 lists.

Things on my mind:
*Expand troops
*Limited Terrain to hide behind
*Autarch a must (for escalation, CC muscle, strategy rating rolls)

1. Locust Swarm- 12 GJB, 4 SHC, Embolden Warlock, LL Autarch.  A 'cool' unit, designed to sit out in the open should there not be enough terrain on the board...
They are durable in that they are MEQ's with LD 10 re-roll, so running away should not be a problem... and they can suffer 8 casualties and still be at peak efficiency...It's able to take on hordes, MEQ's, and charge into combat with weight of attacks and the autarch adding some punch as well.

2. Full force council- 5 more Warlocks on bikes, 6 GJB +2 ShC.  It maximizes the jetbike council increasing number of attacks and durability.  Simple and effective really.

3. Spearhead- 5 Shining SPears +Autarch, (3GJB+Shc).... I've decided not to follow this route... although the shining spears fit perfectly into the theme of the army... I feel this squad is just too fickle....
Not enough attacks, not enough model count in a CC focused unit, usually screws itself due to varied initiative steps, and can kill too much too easily and be left out in the open.
They would work well as a hammer and anvil tactic with the council holding the enemy while the shining spears withdraw and charge again... but things like this really only look good on paper... I don't believe it will translate well in game.

4. Super fluffy- It's basically the full council, but distributing the new warlocks around the army... strengthening all the units before, whild adding 6 GJB, 2 SHC's...it's super fluffy because: both troop choices and the council will have natural squad sizes of 7... Nurgle's favored number.

Fluff, since this army is 'taboo' still... these Eldar are not true plague marines nor are completely trusted even though they work readily for the Death Dealers.  The few living Eldar here ( anything with gems on them are not exactly alive, same wraithguard technology ) are still trying to EARN maximum favor from Grandfather Nurgle, by appeasing him with his favored number '7'.

I'm leaning towards 2 (tactically) and then 4 (more fluffy)...but at the same time, I'm try to go for max scores on the Moc065 and Gutstikk scoring chart, while keeping theme and function equally balanced.

For me, it's a super-hard decision between the super-fluff and the council of pwnage...
But I'll sleep on it and make an amazing presentation....... ..  :D

My 7 Cents.
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Offline Gutstikk

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Re: 1000 Points MEQ Eldar.
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2008, 06:31:33 AM »
Dude, a council of 5 is generally pwnage, if limited to just the wychblades. A council of 7 would be quite a lot of pwnage, and could still let you add some locks to the other squads. A council of 10 is asking to run into something stupid like Pariahs or C'tan phase swords, or be hit by the double 6 Shokk Attack Gun, because it makes Ms Fate tempted.

Also, with the spears/Autarch combo, the way I've found that handles the oh-so-annoying initiative differences is to have the squad in a double headed spear, so that the Autarch makes base contact, and one spear makes base contact, and everyone else is just out of reach. The Exarch will get to attack [as will the squad mates] by being within 2" of the one speare who's in base, the Autarch's attacks won't deny those of the spears because he's far enough away that his kill zone doesn't overlap, and if they pull kills from the guy in base with the Spear to limit his buddies attacks, they will not get to strike at the spears - pretty much guaranteed victory, allowing the Autarch to attempt to sweep.

The other thing you could do is a Reaper Autarch, who could use JSJ along with the jetbike team - 6 Shuricannon shots followed by two auto-hit reaper shots is quite nice. Then you leave the lance on him, and he can break enemy formations late in the game on his own or with the help of the squad. And it adds a different kind of weapon which may prove useful against enemy Dark Reapers, etc., especially with its effective 54" range and no return fire.

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Re: 1000 Points MEQ Eldar.
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2008, 04:38:05 PM »
Two full-force councils is nasty.  As I said, I have a friend who plays more or less that list, with two 5-man councils on bikes (both with Fortuning farseers), 3 Prisms, and two squads of troop jetbikes.  It's hard-hitting.  However, for you, I'd go for 4.  Mixing it up is nice, and gives all of your squads a bit of bite, plus you get effective units of 7!  Try to see if you can throw in an Autarch as well, though, perhaps in place of a warlock or two.
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Offline moc065

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Re: 1000 Points MEQ Eldar.
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2008, 07:19:15 AM »
I would go something like this.

HQ - Autarch on JB, LL, and Fusion Gun (140)
     Helps out with your total Anti-tank principal, give a solid Assault assist unit, as well as all the bonuses in regard to mission/scenerio and flexibility effect.

FA - 4 Shining Spears, Exarch with Starlance S-rider and Withdraw (202)
     Limited anti-tank, but adds to assault potential (if used right) and stays to your MEQ theme. These could be used to with or without the Autarch (as he may be busy with the council). And I have never had difficulty with them being Initiative biased, I simply use my movement phase to set them into the appropriate configuration (footprint) for the enemy unit I intend to drive them into.

T - 5 Guardian Jetbikes, w/ 1 Shuriken Cannons. Includes Warlock on JB with Destructor and Spear (156)
     OK, another one of these smaller units, but its another flamer and more anti-tank potential so it can't hurt.

Totals for add ons = 498pts, but they also add on 2 decent scoring units (one being another Troop). They all have Anti-tank, they add to your assault, horde, and flexibility potential as well as making many more mission viable. I am not sure if this is what your looking for; but I would say this sort of thing would be Fluffy, as well and Spearhead (potentially). I still think that you should consider some of the suggestions I made earlier for your list though, as I still see how it could be made better with those adjustments; without taking away any of its theme.

CaHG

« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 07:23:12 AM by moc065 »
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Offline Sanctjud

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Re: 1000 Points MEQ Eldar.
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2008, 11:31:48 AM »
Thx Moc065, I've placed 40K aside for the past week, I got midterms and the Anime Boston Convention going on, so I'll be back on the forums at full force in a couple days (<---sad, but true).

I like the suggestions...but I'm just not that impressed with the Shining Spears...they are too dependent on killing the enemy but not killing too much, and dependent that the hidden special CCW is dead and that they don't run away from the fight...

I'm prob. looking at this in the wrong way... I usually expect a unit to remain in combat for at least 2 turns... then hit and run... but in my area, there are too many hidden fists... and by the second round of combat, it'll be there, and these Shining Spears have no chance...

Nor do I want to wipe out a unit every time and leave them out in the open...the opponent will prob. combine their shooting and bring them down...in my experience... MEQ status is pretty fragile (I play lots of plague marines, so that's my 'average' toughness meter...pretty off, but hey that's me).

I'm still number-crunching, but I'll be back with a list in a different post at that point.

Thx to all for responces, and keeping this alive instead of sinking lol.

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Offline moc065

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Re: 1000 Points MEQ Eldar.
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2008, 02:58:30 PM »
WarpSpiders are also MEQ, so maybe a squad of these would be your thing, as their ability to lay down serious firepower and/or come and go as they please can be solid. Something like this could easily replace the S-Spears from above.

(208) 8 WarpSpiders: Exarch with DDS, and Withdraw.

Think give them a thought, as they would certainly add a lot to your list as well.

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Re: 1000 Points MEQ Eldar.
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2008, 10:53:09 PM »
The added toughness is the sticking point though; he needs that to reflect the Mark of Nurgle.

With the spears, you need to set up the charge so that they can eradicate the enemy altogether, and then if they don't, have them break off in your own turn in such a way that the enemy cannot afford to pursue them. Lead them towards someplace where you are strong. That, or ignore the autarch, and just use a small 3-modle team with Exarch to clean up at the end of the game. Still expensive, but not horribly so - will cost about the same as a 6 man jetbike team with 2 cannons [exarch, brightlance, withdraw, and 2 extra warriors, for a 3-model team at 157pts.

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Re: 1000 Points MEQ Eldar.
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2008, 11:28:50 AM »
Chaplain Swordwind Rating:

Durability: 2
Lethality: .5
Mobility: 2
Synergy: 1.5
Utility: 1

Total: 7/10

This list is fast and tough, a great combination.  I can see this list doing well in objective based missions.  Where this list will struggle is in missions that require more direct conflict.  The lethality of the list is pretty low, but that should not be terribly surprising as you have already described this as a recon force for your Chaos.  I gave only 1 point for utility because it appears to me that in this configuration your list will have trouble harming MEQ's and Monstrous Creatures.  On the other hand, you have many ways of bringing the pain to swarms and vehicles.

Look here for a complete description of the rating method I used to come up with this score.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 01:35:18 AM by Chaplain Swordwind »
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