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Author Topic: 3rd world countries: The problem and the answer  (Read 5078 times)

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Cheantoa

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3rd world countries: The problem and the answer
« on: March 13, 2002, 03:04:41 AM »
No, no I haven't solved it, I'm just trying to start a debate.

I'm going to start by asking what the actual problem is. So? (I have afew ideas that I shall say later but not now)

Offline Cymoril

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« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2002, 03:14:53 AM »
...but he still can't spell.

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Cheantoa

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Re:3rd world countries: The problem and the answer
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2002, 03:59:22 AM »
 :-[ ... ehehe...  I don't see any spelling mistakes... ehe heh heh...

Offline TheMightyPikachu

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Re:3rd world countries: The problem and the answer
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2002, 06:57:45 AM »
debt to 1st world nations
solution- work off debt
harder than it sounds
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Offline Helmed Horror

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Re:3rd world countries: The problem and the answer
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2002, 07:12:41 AM »
These nations are poor that's why there 3rd world. If we help them they will do something. I don't know but I may care. I don't know ???
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Offline Cormer Lir

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Re:3rd world countries: The problem and the answer
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2002, 01:59:30 PM »
Problem is that the majority of people are looking to debt relief, financial aid, and what have you.

Which will never work.

It's the old "give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day.  Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for a lifetime".  What the majority of liberals (no offense) want is to give the man a fish.  Problem is, we can't even be sure that he'll eat the fish.  Chances are he'll feed the fish to his trained attack dog.  And he doesn't WANT us to teach him how to fish, he wants us to give him a fish a day for the rest of his life.  Possibly two fish a day, one for him and one for his dog.

Trying to buy the Third World into prosperity isn't going to work.  
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Offline Wolf Eyes Bane

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Re:3rd world countries: The problem and the answer
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2002, 02:05:15 PM »
i agree with Cormer Lir, but being a liberal I have a diffrent stance.  If they don't want to learn how to take care of them selves, then ingore them.  Not saying that to be cruel, but if you can feed yourself and your mate then how do you think you can feed a kid?  Let alone 10 of them?  That to me just doesn't make sence not at all.  Teach them how to fish and farm, not give them food, they say we want food, we say no.  The only people we should do that with are the ones cutting down the rain forests cause the more damage they do for a years worth of crop growning does so much damamge to everyone else, but that is to vote our own self intrest.
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Offline TheMightyPikachu

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Re:3rd world countries: The problem and the answer
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2002, 06:55:57 PM »
quite growing cash crops
grow food crops
halt deforestation, it causes desertification and erosion
increase literacy rates
lower birth rates (by ALOT!)
get non corrupt govt officials
try to hold on the lending of money
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Offline fusion corsair

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Re:3rd world countries: The problem and the answer
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2002, 08:37:04 PM »
You guys are right, we simply cannot keep giving money and food. The answer to this question is difficult. Personally i believe that education is the best place to start. You must create a workforce before economic oportunity will arise. Next it is up to government to create policies which encourage firms to set up in the country thus creating jobs. However for this to happen thier must be cultural and political stability. I believe that education and better policy are the easiest steps, it is reaching stability that will prove the hardest part in some countries. It is arguable that strong leadership could bring stability, but strong leadership requires education. It is circular, but educatioon is the key.

Offline Zim

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Re:3rd world countries: The problem and the answer
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2002, 09:00:29 PM »
The problem can't be handled internally.  Years of incentives, positive and negative, have confirmed this.  If a country classifies as third world, you can bet that the direct cause of it is lack of strong or humane government.  If we sanction them, then the dictators simply tax the hell out of the people to maintain their own quality of life.  Take Iraq, Iran, Cuba, and North Korea.  If we try positive reinforcement, we get Bosnia.  Warlords hoarding goods and relief provided by an international effort.

The solution?

(1) Stop this f*cking quaking at the idea of full-scale military engagement.  Vietnam is not going to happen again; we've gotten better, they haven't.  The North Vietnamese had Soviet and Chinese support behind the scenes.  Saddam Hussein has a smattering of 30 year-old Soviet and US issue tanks, guns, and anti-aircraft weaponry. To hell with "weapons inspectors," bomb 'em back to the stone age.  But make sure that Turkey is involved with the reconstruction.  The next "expert" who tells me that Islam and Government can never be separated is gonna get a map of the Balkans shoved up his hidey-hole.

(2) Stop acting like we have to "take international pressure" into account.  I don't give a rats ass if a bunch of tree hugging French hippies don't like that we're putting hoods on suspected terrorists in Guantanamo Bay.  You try being the world's only remaining superpower and see how you deal with it.  The only way to deal with many of these people is force.  They have no concept of negotiation, or peace.  It must be forced on them.  Dictatorial Theocracies or "People's Republics" do not a "culture" make, and they do not deserve to exist.  To quote a recent episode of The West Wing, "They'll like us when we win."

(3)  Stop making every military action an "international" effort.  Our guys in Mogadishu got shot up because those UN peacekeeping bastards wouldn't get off their asses to save OUR guys.  Unless a country can keep up with OUR standards of training, discipline and technological prowess, get off the damn court and let the big boys play.  The chain of command begins and ends in one place: us.

I think that sums up my feelings on the subject pretty well.
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Cheantoa

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Re:3rd world countries: The problem and the answer
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2002, 01:45:57 AM »
now another question

How did they winde up 3rd world?

And why do they remain so?

Offline Niran of Asha An

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Re:3rd world countries: The problem and the answer
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2002, 01:35:02 PM »
too many people.  people have as many children as they can because they need more labor to make money but then all those people need to be fed to work and they can't be so they can't work, etc, etc.  if every couple only had one kid the population would be cut in half in a single generation.
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Offline Wraithboss

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Re:3rd world countries: The problem and the answer
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2002, 02:01:11 PM »

The problem can't be handled internally.  Years of incentives, positive and negative, have confirmed this.  If a country classifies as third world, you can bet that the direct cause of it is lack of strong or humane government.  If we sanction them, then the dictators simply tax the hell out of the people to maintain their own quality of life.  Take Iraq, Iran, Cuba, and North Korea.  If we try positive reinforcement, we get Bosnia.  Warlords hoarding goods and relief provided by an international effort.

The solution?

(1) Stop this f*cking quaking at the idea of full-scale military engagement.  Vietnam is not going to happen again; we've gotten better, they haven't.  The North Vietnamese had Soviet and Chinese support behind the scenes.  Saddam Hussein has a smattering of 30 year-old Soviet and US issue tanks, guns, and anti-aircraft weaponry. To hell with "weapons inspectors," bomb 'em back to the stone age.  But make sure that Turkey is involved with the reconstruction.  The next "expert" who tells me that Islam and Government can never be separated is gonna get a map of the Balkans shoved up his hidey-hole.

(2) Stop acting like we have to "take international pressure" into account.  I don't give a rats ass if a bunch of tree hugging French hippies don't like that we're putting hoods on suspected terrorists in Guantanamo Bay.  You try being the world's only remaining superpower and see how you deal with it.  The only way to deal with many of these people is force.  They have no concept of negotiation, or peace.  It must be forced on them.  Dictatorial Theocracies or "People's Republics" do not a "culture" make, and they do not deserve to exist.  To quote a recent episode of The West Wing, "They'll like us when we win."

(3)  Stop making every military action an "international" effort.  Our guys in Mogadishu got shot up because those UN peacekeeping bastards wouldn't get off their asses to save OUR guys.  Unless a country can keep up with OUR standards of training, discipline and technological prowess, get off the damn court and let the big boys play.  The chain of command begins and ends in one place: us.

I think that sums up my feelings on the subject pretty well.


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Offline odinblade

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Re:3rd world countries: The problem and the answer
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2002, 05:11:49 PM »
Same here.  Zim is a great person too, not just ideas.  Vote for Zim!!!

Seriously (not that I wouldn't vote for Zim), We need to kick the asses of anyone that so much as slashes a tire at the embassy (ok, maybe not that strict, but you get the point).  The fix for the US:  
1)  Set up birth limits on countries that are way overpopulated and poor.
2)  Stop negotiating with rather unsavoury chap, what-ho old bean? leaders of aforementioned countries.
3)  Screw political correctness
4)  Cut down on red tape and bogus government crap that wastes money (like congress's power to raise it's own salaries.  Who the hell came up with that?) and resources.
5)  Finally, get rid of lobbying.  It sucks and it screws up everything the government tries to do.

THese are my ideas, quite similar to Zim's, just more about the US of A.  Enjoy, or dont, i dont give a crap.

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re:3rd world countries: The problem and the answer
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2002, 05:22:25 PM »
1)  Set up birth limits on countries that are way overpopulated and poor.

This seems wrong on so many levels.

So, you want to go into other countries and dicate to their population whether they may have children or not? What do you propose to do with people who exceed their US stipulated children limit? Kill them and their kids? Just kill the children? Sterilise populations (or the portions there of that don't meet your financial limitations) so as to avoid the problem in the first place?

Wouldn't this be a massive attack against human rights?

How do we decide who may have children and who may not? You mention money, does money make a good parent by definition?

I'm interested in how you'd organise this birth control by force ideal.
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Offline odinblade

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Re:3rd world countries: The problem and the answer
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2002, 05:30:44 PM »
Hey man, i didnt think TOO hard about this.  I realize that it may not be feasible, but birth rates MUST be controlled somehow.  Here is the problem, in general, not always:  The middle/upper class understands the population problem and has access to resources like birth-control pills, so they have fewer offspring.  The lower class does not understand or needs more workers so they have a bunch of children because most will die.  Something must be done, and I realize i might come across as a bit of an intolerable ass (which I can be at times) but this is merely showing what the problems are.  Not being in govt. I cannot say much useful about how to fix it, because I am sure there are more intricacies than we could imagine.  But those are my opinions and I'm (pretty much) sticking to them.

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Re:3rd world countries: The problem and the answer
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2002, 09:36:23 PM »
I'll just say 2 words

GLOBAL SOCIALISM

Offline Zim

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Re:3rd world countries: The problem and the answer
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2002, 10:47:43 PM »
LMAO...

I am actually planning on being a carreer politician.  If anyone is living in Boston in about 15 years, gear up 'cuz I'll be running for Mayor!

As a conservative Dem, tho, I can't STAND religion in politics.  It's a plague upon the system.  Religions deserve government support, but it should be in DIRECT relation to the need and population of the various organizations.  And anyone who brings God into the race is already slave to a special interest.

And Global Socialism is the dumbest idea ever heard.  If I lived with socialized healthcare I'd be sterile (no amphetamine parrotting) and essentially a vegetable.  I suffer from debilitating chronic migraines, and if it weren't for the alternative treatment method's I'm on, I'd be living in a world of blinding agony.  So you can tell Marx he can burn in hell, 'cuz NO ONE is getting a free ride for my hard work.  Capitolism built the greatest nation in the history of human civilization, and I'll be damned if a bunch of egalitarian hippies are going to tell me what I can do with my money.  I'll pay enough to keep everyone alive and healthy.  But the amount of waste in even mildly socialist societies is nauseating.

Hmmm... I think I'll save this rant for another day.  Go read about the new Avatar rules.
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Offline Kaughnor

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Re:3rd world countries: The problem and the answer
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2002, 11:15:11 PM »
I suppose we should forget about that whole colonialism thing.  While we are at it, why not deny that an international slave trade once existed.  Centuries of raping and pillaging - so as to build a free and democratic empire - should not stand in the way of a good ol'thumping.  The sins of our western fore-fathers should not inspire the children of the future to support an egalitarian system.  So what if we waste millions of tons of food a day, those 3rd world poverty stricken chumps would probably bite the hand that fed it.  Why should we care if a child dies every three seconds around the world.  Or rather, what does it matter that western capitalist governments - including the gold ol'U.S.of A. - supported the facist military regiems of Chile, Argentina and Paraguay (responisple for millions of disapered)  in order to make a buck.  Might makes right, that's the ticket, three cheers for the realpolitic!

Cheantoa

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Re:3rd world countries: The problem and the answer
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2002, 11:38:59 PM »
...I'm now going to stress the question: How did they get that way?

 


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