Topic: 9/11 Pentagon planecrash

[Kritik]

Just tell me, what reasons do the United States Government have in killing its own people?

[Frescadude]

I would like someone to please explain to me how you distinguish controlled demolitions from a plane exploding.  It seems to me that hydrocarbon + heat + oxygen= BOOM!!!

Another thing is that the invasion of Iraq showed that the Bush administration has ways of getting support for war without killing its own people.

[Kritik]

Controlled demolition: You know where and how its going to blow up and the kind of damage that's going to incur. (by the way, your equation should be Hydrocarbon + Oxygen + Energy = Carbon Dioxide + Water, I have a hard time understanding the Element boom. Probably Magnesium Borate? )

The little Bush Administration thing won't kill too many bugs the conspiracists send toward us unfortunately  .

[Frescadude]

Controlled demolition: You know where and how its going to blow up and the kind of damage that's going to incur. (by the way, your equation should be Hydrocarbon + Oxygen + Energy = Carbon Dioxide + Water, I have a hard time understanding the Element boom. Probably Magnesium Borate? )

  I was just trying to dumb it down to make that point that it seems, given the footage we have, to be difficult to say that it was a controlled explosion.  Are there actually tell-tale signs that can be recognized on somewhat grainy, unofficial footage.

[pathfinder]

I don't believe  there is some huge conspiracy but i do believe something is hidden for these reasons, we got warnings all over the world that Al-Qaida(spelling?) was planning a huge attack. next no large debree at the Pentagon or bodies of Said arplane passengers(at least something would of been found), and last all security cameras that abserved the flight were confiscated by the CIA.

[Kritik]

Mysteries and coverups, I can be made to believe that. But Conspiracy? No.

[The GrimSqueaker]

Mysteries and coverups, I can be made to believe that. But Conspiracy? No. 

For there to be a cover up there has to be a conspiracy. They're not mutually exclusive concepts but rather a joint set. The conspiracy would be for the cover up.

I do have one question though, why didn't the Secret Service pull Bush out of the school when they knew multiple attacks had occurred and he was on a well publicised visit? They didn't even pull him out to the armoured limo. He just got to sat there. The whole security team should have been fired over that one. The marine guard wanted to evacuate but the SS did nothing.

[Eddie666ak]

http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/video_bomb_in_building.htm

This is a video of a firefighter saying there is a bomb in the building please take the time to watch it, it is only a few seconds long.

[Frescadude]

He said there was a bomb in the building.  There is no proof that this was one of the twin towers, or even that this film was taken on 9/11.  You seem to be dodging the question of how one could look at a video of an explosion and say, "that was controlled," with no prior knowledge.

[Kritik]

Right, this is a video of a dude saying that there is a bomb in the building. Nothing indicates that this was taken at ground zero. Nothing.

Also notice how the firefighter told people to clear out. Nobody was cleared out from the Twin Towers, the only incident of a person making it unscathed from the building was because that guy went to take a smoke from the building. If there was prior knowledge of some "bomb", then we would have noticed a long time before.

By the way eddie666ak, you made me waste 31 seconds of my life (not including the loading time)

[Eddie666ak]

I once saw a video of a man in a cave Claiming to be osama and claiming to be responsible but as you say nothing indicates that it was in a cave in afganhistan.nothing . Yet I am sure you believe it without question. And you wasted seconds of my life with such a predictable respone of its a fake. You believe what you see on t.v without proof but find excuses why such videos are fake. And to the previous poster how can you look at a video and say that was muslim terrorists without any prior knowledge of them. You cannot, you hear the news reports and believe they were muslims because you were told so. BTW Hao Li i did not 'make' you do anything I asked you to watch it and you did and I am sure you wre thinking of counter arguments before the video even loaded. If you go into something knowing you will not believe it no matter what you will convince yourself. Finally if you read the post i said 'This is a video of a firefighter saying there is a bomb in the building'  the point was to watch it an make of it what you wanted, I did not mention ground zero or 9/11.

[Kritik]

Yet the video of a guy who claims to be Osama in a cave in Afganistan (spell?) makes reference to the 9/11 attack, while that video you posted was a guy notifying that there is a bomb in the building. There is no reference of where when what why, just that there is one building with a bomb in some place in the united states at some given time. That's why your video has no credibility.


Edit: I looked at the video again. That is nowhere near the Twin Towers. I know it is in New York because it shows the New York firetruck, but couple of indication makes clear that it isn't near the Twin Towers:

1) The camera makes a 360 degree turn throughout the video, the base of the twin tower cannot be seen.

2) There is a lot more open space near the base of the twin tower, while the video shows enclosed space

3) There is some kind of bridge, etc. that appears above the fireman and truck, because of the expanse near the base of the Twin Towers, such a structure would not have been possible.

4) To my knowledge, I don't believe apartment buildings were built around the Twin Towers

5) An intersection is too close to where the Firefighters are working

6) There is a child crossing sign, I'm pretty sure that there is none of those things near the towers because there are so many street lights out there. A person designing the roads or bulding won't place one there.

[Dux Aurelius Elysius]

You seem to be dodging the question of how one could look at a video of an explosion and say, "that was controlled," with no prior knowledge.

[I don't buy into any particular conspiracy theory, but am willing to play devils advocate]

One would presume that if an explosion was rigged rather than spontaneous, you would be able to see so judging by the differing location and direction that the explosion occurs in.

Mysteries and coverups, I can be made to believe that. But Conspiracy? No.

Surely in a nation that is supposedly based upon democracy, which should rely on an open Government so that people can make informed decisions without fear of censorship, mystery and coverup is a bad enough "conspiracy" in itself?

[Eddie666ak]

The main point was just because you see a video of someone you do not know from a uinknown location does not make it real. I could put on some camo hold an ak47 go into a cave and claim anything I wanted, it doesnt mean its true.  Afghanistan is the true spelling it even says so on their website (I got the h in the wrong place). As to the location of the video, on the 360 shot it was a very low shot in some parts and you wouldn't have seen high enough to know for defenite but for the time being I bow to your superior knowledge because I have never been to new york(or America).

[Kritik]

Mysteries and coverups, I can be made to believe that. But Conspiracy? No.

Surely in a supposedly democratic nation, which should rely on an open Government so that people can make informed decisions without fear of censorship, mystery and coverup is a bad enough "conspiracy" in itself?

Trust me, every single government out there has a secret. Just that they don't amount to a conspiracy.

The main point was just because you see a video of someone you do not know from a uinknown location does not make it real. I could put on some camo hold an ak47 go into a cave and claim anything I wanted, it doesnt mean its true.  Afghanistan is the true spelling it even says so on their website (I got the h in the wrong place). As to the location of the video, on the 360 shot it was a very low shot in some parts and you wouldn't have seen high enough to know for defenite but for the time being I bow to your superior knowledge because I have never been to new york(or America).

I doubt the FBI is going to believe you as they can easily compare your voice with that of Osama Bin Laden.

[Dux Aurelius Elysius]

Trust me, every single government out there has a secret. Just that they don't amount to a conspiracy.

My point is that they shouldn't have such secrets (especially when they're so blatantly holding something secret) and if other Governments secrets came to the point of discussion I would likewise condemn them.  Whether you can tag "conspiracy" onto it or not is irrelevant.  Though, according to dictionary.com, I could well call it a conspiracy.

[Kritik]

So the fact that the U.S. government isn't telling the public about the information they have on terrorist cells is a conspiracy?

[Eddie666ak]

That wasnt the point Hao Li, you are correct the FBI may know better. But you would believe what they tell you. If there was a tape of me in those circumstances and they said Eddie bin laden did it you would believe it, but it does not make it true.

[Frescadude]

The problem with your arguments, eddie, is A) I don't believe that everything on TV is true, I have a great amount of skepticism, but the 9/11 story makes sense; B) You seem to be so against believing what was told to you, that you believe something without proof, indeed it is more logical to believe that which is told to you than a theory with multiple holes and no evidence; C)

And to the previous poster how can you look at a video and say that was muslim terrorists without any prior knowledge of them

It is not a closely guarded secret that there were Muslims who hated us before 9/11.

[I don't buy into any particular conspiracy theory, but am willing to play devils advocate]

One would presume that if an explosion was rigged rather than spontaneous, you would be able to see so judging by the differing location and direction that the explosion occurs in.

But neither of those is a condition present during 9/11.

That wasnt the point Hao Li, you are correct the FBI may know better. But you would believe what they tell you. If there was a tape of me in those circumstances and they said Eddie bin laden did it you would believe it, but it does not make it true.

But if you took credit for it, and there was significant evidence that you did it, we would be forced to come to a similar conclusion.

[Dux Aurelius Elysius]

But neither of those is a condition present during 9/11.

I'm not an explosions analyst and, I would presume, neither are you.  Neither have I heard of independent explosion analysts making announcements regarding what can be made from the footage.

So the fact that the U.S. government isn't telling the public about the information they have on terrorist cells is a conspiracy?

You'd best check your context, nobody mentioned information about terrorist cells.  We're talking about the 9/11 planes and the amount of information that was, and was not, released.