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Offline Lockmaster

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Anti americanism
« on: September 25, 2005, 10:38:07 AM »
Well, i am not sure if americans know this, but most people in the world hate america at the moment.  Why do you think this is?
Firstly i do not hate americans, however i would like to unpick the reasons for this current trend today.  I will start off with listing some reasons i see, and why they might be reasons, Oh, you'll see what i mean

People hate americans because:

Their stupid
.  Sorry guys, but many people in Brittan think your stupid.  This has not always been the case, and i think the main reason for this is Bush.  Bush is not terrably bright, and you have thus been steriotyped to a point that when people hear an american accent, they are expecting them to say something like 'i know fish and humans can co-exist peacefully'.

War in Iraq  The american people largly supported the war in Iraq.  Now i know that we in the UK went as well, but we largly opposed it, with HUGE demonstrations in London taking place, and there has always been an anti war feeling, and a Tony Blair hate, which leads me to my next point.

We hate tony blair  WAIT FOR IT  English people feel that tony blair is Bush's lap dog, and feel that we have lost part of our leader to the americans (and if you wanted to know why we voted in the prat again, don't ask me, i didn't vote for him, although to be fair on other people, there was a distinct lack of any competition.)

Americans are arrogant  One of the hardest reasons i have to pinpoint, but i think that americans partriotism has something to do with it, help here!

Ok, so there are some point i think are the reasons, others (also, i would prefer this to be a constructive thread as opposed to outright slagging off).

In all, i think a large reason is due to ignorance.  America is such a diverse country that to make such general assumtions is a little wrong, however, thats just me.  Comments please.

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Offline Wurzelmaniac

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2005, 10:45:23 AM »
In general Amercans know full well we don't like them (or in more rational cases, we don't like the nation).
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Offline Rasmus

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2005, 10:47:46 AM »
Their stupid[/i].  Sorry guys, but many people in Brittan think your stupid.  This has not always been the case, and i think the main reason for this is Bush.  Bush is not terrably bright, and you have thus been steriotyped to a point that when people hear an american accent, they are expecting them to say something like 'i know fish and humans can co-exist peacefully'.
  Watching Kay Leno (not for the stupid people on his segments of people on the street, but rather for Jay himself) and a host of others add to this too. The generally poor public eductaion (or at least its poor reputation, deserved or not) adds to this as well.

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Offline Lockmaster

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2005, 11:45:45 AM »
Quote
In general Amercans know full well we don't like them (or in more rational cases, we don't like the nation).
Umm, ok, not hugly construtive but hey.  Also, what is this not liking the nation?  American people and the nation of america are one and the same really, unless you are talking about the country, as in 'i hate that piece of land, isn't it a silly shape'.
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Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2005, 12:04:58 PM »
Quote
In general Amercans know full well we don't like them (or in more rational cases, we don't like the nation).
Umm, ok, not hugly construtive but hey.  Also, what is this not liking the nation?  American people and the nation of america are one and the same really, unless you are talking about the country, as in 'i hate that piece of land, isn't it a silly shape'.

Hardly. One can hate the actions of the government perfectly well without disliking the people in the slightest.

Their stupid[/i].  Sorry guys, but many people in Brittan think your stupid.  This has not always been the case, and i think the main reason for this is Bush.  Bush is not terrably bright, and you have thus been steriotyped to a point that when people hear an american accent, they are expecting them to say something like 'i know fish and humans can co-exist peacefully'.
  Watching Kay Leno (not for the stupid people on his segments of people on the street, but rather for Jay himself) and a host of others add to this too. The generally poor public eductaion (or at least its poor reputation, deserved or not) adds to this as well.

I'm sorry Rasmus, are you saying that Jay Leno is stupid? I'd say he's rather astute myself.

People considered Americans to be stupid long before Bush. Read Bill Bryson's Notes From A Big Country to discover a nation that doesn't know, well, anything at all.

I think there's a dangerous double standard here. A lot of the things you say lockmaster are things that I personally would challenge in at least some respect. I think we can expect a lot of indignance from the Yanks on this one. Not entirely unjustified either.
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Offline Lockmaster

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2005, 12:10:21 PM »
Quote
A lot of the things you say lockmaster are things that I personally would challenge in at least some respect. I think we can expect a lot of indignance from the Yanks on this one. Not entirely unjustified either.
Umm, why??  I have quite clearly made my view that i do not agree with anything of which i typed in italics (although i do dislike tony blairs foreign policy).  I like america, i belive it is a wonderfully diverse country, as i have said, and ii have friends over there who are lovly people.  What is the problem skyscraper?  And what are these double standards you are talking about?
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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2005, 12:14:19 PM »
Sorry, not double-standards, I was thinking of something else. Those ideas are quite hypocritical in some respects (as in, we are just as guilty of some of those things), and few of them appear to have much factual basis.
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Offline Santopezzullo

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2005, 12:31:17 PM »
Sometimes I had the possibility of talking with USA people, they are not stupid they are naives, they are happy because Echelon controls the world and theyr liberty, but they don't think that Echelon controls them. They are happy because they have a great army, but they don't think about black babies in ghettos being under nourished. Take one of them, speak with him and he is a good person, togheter they are like the Germans of the 2° world war. Luckily the Germany is now a democratic nation, the USA are the less democratical nation, because they are the only dictatroship (the dictatorship of the ignorance and the money cult) that is not able to understand that is a dictatorship. In Northern Korea people are knowing that they live in a dictatorship , in the USA they think of beeing the greater democracy of the world.
Remeber this: in the ancient Athen's democracy, only greek free male  people can vote, the two thirds of people were slaves.
USA are sending theyr poor people to fighting the wars of the rich people, in Vietnam american boys were fighting togheter for a bad cause, but togheter, now only poor americans are dying for the interst of the petroleum companies.

Offline Lockmaster

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2005, 12:32:49 PM »
Quote
Those ideas are quite hypocritical in some respects
I totally agree, however this is this not the impression that you get from most english people?

Quote
and few of them appear to have much factual basis.
Like what?  I can't believe you can say that most people you know do not believe in at least some of the points i made
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Offline Lockmaster

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2005, 12:39:36 PM »
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USA are sending theyr poor people to fighting the wars of the rich people, in Vietnam american boys were fighting togheter for a bad cause, but togheter, now only poor americans are dying for the interst of the petroleum companies
This is the same in every country is it not?  It is the lower class in general that make up and army, and officers are not often the top of their class.
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Offline Pvt. Dancer

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2005, 01:10:02 PM »
When I see a old guy with a piece of grass in his mouth, sitting in his creeky wooden chair with his old wife next to him rowing in a pot scares me, and when I see Americans try to be smart makes me want to go there and show off :) Though Bam Margera is an exception, his stupidity is fun 8)

Offline Rasmus

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2005, 01:20:17 PM »
lockmaster please do not make serial posts.
Use the "Modify"-button () to add to your posts rather than to post another in sequence. Thank you.
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Offline MaterialDefender

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2005, 02:30:45 PM »
Ahhh, Im touched the same time an american starts a thread about liking Britain, a brit makes one about hating the United States.  Where's the love?

That thread also now has British people pretty much saying "yup, I already knew that", and were the arrogant ones?  Everybody is arrogant to a degree.

Generalizations all of them, so is the problem with sterotyping.  Try not to do it to me and I'll try not to do it to you.  And I think anybody who has seen some of the other threads on this board already know that were not liked and most of the reasons why.

I feel like making a generalization now.  You're all just as stupid as us for re-elcting somebody who you think is Bush's lap dog, as we are for re-electing Bush.

And Im not saying the US is better but I think there is more of enough america bashing going on without a thread dedicated to it.

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Offline Eridain

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2005, 02:42:23 PM »
why is it that every second thread is about america, its president and why people do or dont like the country, people, nation, policy?! i suggest making a sticky post instead of repeating the same arguments and views every other thread. is this really the only thiong that interests you guys, either picking on america or telling non-americans they suck?!

i think it would be more interesting to discuss other topics as well: for example the third largest economy worldwide and most powerful economy in europe had elections last week and it looks like the policies there will change quite a bit due to a looming grand coalition. reforms will be made that will influence the future of the EU. im not even sure whether you know what country i am talking about, since you are just USA centered.

to the mods: why not have an america sticky? id like that and it would stop repeating the same sermon over and over ;-)

Offline Pvt. Dancer

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2005, 02:49:45 PM »
Sure there are Americans I like, but most of them I don't like, they have problems about things when I say to myself: "Are you really that stupid or are you acting like it"

For Example, someone's 16th birthday costed over $200000.- Totally absurd, not to mention she went for clothes shopping all the way to Paris, seriously >:(

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Offline Iron-Hand Ace

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2005, 03:10:39 PM »
Lockmaster, this is just a thought, but if you're going to start a thread in which you call other people stupid, using proper grammer is a great way to give yourself credibility.  It's "they're stupid," a conjunction of "they" and "are" instead of "their," which is possessive.

Anyway, on to your actual arguments:

Quote
Their stupid.  Sorry guys, but many people in Brittan think your stupid.  This has not always been the case, and i think the main reason for this is Bush.  Bush is not terrably bright, and you have thus been stereotyped to a point that when people hear an American accent, they are expecting them to say something like 'i know fish and humans can co-exist peacefully'.

Bush is an idiot.  Many people in the US are idiots.  However, many people in Britain, France, Russia, Germany, South Africa and New Zealand are just as idiotic.  Media and other sources like to stereotype the US as stupid, the same way they like to stereotype the English as snobs or the French is cowardly rather unsavoury chap, what-ho old bean?s.  The vast majority of these have some basis in fact, but basing an argument on them is weak, as they have been greatly exaggerated.

Quote
War in Iraq  The American people largely supported the war in Iraq.  Now i know that we in the UK went as well, but we largely opposed it, with HUGE demonstrations in London taking place, and there has always been an anti war feeling, and a Tony Blair hate, which leads me to my next point.

We hate tony blair  WAIT FOR IT  English people feel that tony blair is Bush's lap dog, and feel that we have lost part of our leader to the americans (and if you wanted to know why we voted in the prat again, don't ask me, i didn't vote for him, although to be fair on other people, there was a distinct lack of any competition.)

I hardly think that your opinion of Tony Blair reflects on the United States.  If you're trying to explain why people hate America, saying that people hate Tony Blair has nothing to do with your topic.  The war in Iraq is an actual reason why people hate the United states, but you should have elaborated on that subject to a greater extent.

Quote
Americans are arrogant  One of the hardest reasons i have to pinpoint, but i think that americans partriotism has something to do with it, help here!

If you can't support the topic on your own, you shouldn't include it as a part of your essay.  Asking for other people to help you shows that you haven't completely thought out your topic, and it is better to let people bring up the topic on their own instead of bringing it up and leaving it in the open.  Simply saying that "Americans are arrogant" is extremely arrogant in itself, because the only way you can truthfully say that is to have met every American and found that they are all arrogant.

Before you make such broad and general statements, do some research and discover some facts to back up your arguments.  It will lead to a much more organized and respectful thread than simply providing an place for America haters and patriots to scream at each other.
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Offline Federal Hero

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2005, 03:14:51 PM »
The reason everyone hates the US is because they are the leader of the world and honestly who likes the person thats in charge of them? I certainly don't like my principle and I don't like my boss. Americans are very dominating in all aspects (just look at the softwood lumber dispute here in Canada) and they take advantage of smaller, poorer, and weaker countries. This is why we hate America on a political scale. But Americans themselves(the people) I like. When we go to the US I often find Americans to be very nice, educated, and well-rounded people. But of course just like in any country there are those who commit crimes, are less educated, etc. but the majority of Americans do not and are not. But then there are things culture wise that also make us think that Americas are stupid and violent( Jack-Ass, rap culture, stupid reality shows, fascination with celebrities, COPS, stereotyping the "South" as hicks, etc.).
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Offline Sox'li

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2005, 05:05:23 PM »
To Thrawn:

This isn't about him hating Americans, it's about Brits hating Americans for stupid reasons, which is why he can't back up 'his' argument (which really isn't his at all).

Firstly i do not hate americans, however i would like to unpick the reasons for this current trend today.  I will start off with listing some reasons i see, and why they might be reasons, Oh, you'll see what i mean

As to Americans being stupid, you're right, the majority aren't intelligent, maybe schoolwise, but have a certain... intelligence that they don't express. A perfect example is a kid who lives about a trailer down from me. He dropped out, never was any good in school. Doesn't mean he wasn't intelligent. In fact, he's one of the smartest people I know.

You can't tellme Britain or Australia don't have people like this.
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Offline Archonbjorn

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2005, 05:54:22 PM »
W8 a second you are only putting the Americans down atm. They do have their good sides 2. Me and ArchonJoppa got to know eachother thanks to this forum and we have talked about more then only 40k. In faqt I even ask him for advice for certain personal things in my own lige. I enjoy talking to him because he is one of the nicest ppl I have ever met.

However I do have to admid that most americans>>  I MET<< were quit arrogant. Over here in Holland we also aint that fond of busch. The Netherlands always had its own opinion about things and never followed another country something im quit proud of. If we need to open our mouth then so be it!

The war in Iraq is certainly not good but you cannot judge a whole country by the acts of one man!

Offline Lockmaster

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Re: Anti americanism
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2005, 06:21:26 PM »
Quote
This isn't about him hating Americans, it's about Brits hating Americans for stupid reasons, which is why he can't back up 'his' argument
YES!!!!!  This is what i have been trying to get at this entire thread, and this is the point of it.

Quote
However I do have to admid that most americans>>  I MET<< were quit arrogant
I believe this is largly due to a culture thing.  In america, it is not seen as arrogant to talk about yourself, and much of what they do is actually simply calling a spade a spade.  A problem only arises when an outspoken american comes to england and people have been conditioned to be reserved where a conflict arises.  I do not believe that these people actually think they are better than anyone else, they are just talkative.

Quote
If you're trying to explain why people hate America, saying that people hate Tony Blair has nothing to do with your topic
Lol, sorry, yer, it may appear a little stupid, and the reason is simple.  It is!!  British people hate America becuase:  (when i say we, i do not refer to myself, i am referring to an a stupid argument someone could make up) We see tony blair as being Bush's lap dog.  We do not like this.  I do not wish to blame myself for voting for this nit wit.  I know, i'll blame Bush, and thus america.

Quote
Ahhh, Im touched the same time an american starts a thread about liking Britain, a brit makes one about hating the United States.  Where's the love?
Nooo, i'm trying to spread the love!! i am trying to unpick and destroy stupid reasons for hating america!!  Help me out here!

I find it strange that people 'do not hate americans, they hate the nation'.  So you hate a nation that is founded on the ideals of freedom and justice for all, a nation where it is possible to be a citizen without loosing your identity (irish american etc.), a nation founded on imigration, and where imigration is seen as a positive thing?  Please enlighten me here
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