News: No news is good news...

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: 1500pt League List  (Read 2077 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline BearBitesHurt

  • Insolent: Forum Blockhead
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1792
  • Careful: I might talk to you like you're an adult
Re: 1500pt League List
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2008, 05:25:40 PM »
I'm afraid this is going to be unpopular, but it needs to be said:

20 Warriors?  As in, the bare minimum of troops?  Not very balanced or fluffy, I'm afraid.  Generally it's good to have at least 40% of the army be troops, in 5th edition more than ever.

A good player, or even a mediocre player like myself, would focus everything I had on your Warriors and leave you unable to claim objectives.

Offline Gutstikk

  • Infinity Circuit | Title here to be dreaded 'til further notice. Rummy's Deepstriking Pylon
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7829
  • Country: 00
  • I am a Wolf.
Re: 1500pt League List
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2008, 05:44:48 PM »
Different lists have different needs. If you can kill all of the enemy you do not need scoring units [wipe-out victory condition], which granted is hard to do. If you can contest all of the objectives the game goes to the highest VP scorer [not as hard to do as wipe-out, but could still be difficult].

In 5th I would say this is what you should consider as mission objectives in every mission:

1) The Scoring unit vs KP dynamic
2) VP acquisition/VP denial
3) Sheer destructiveness
4) Planning against Phase-Out [though this generally doesn't contribute to victory]

If you can win on point 1, you don't need to worry about the others. Same on point 2 and point 3. However, if all 3 are available, you have 3 different ways to win. I throw point 4 in because as a Necron player this victory condition is available to your opponent.

My lists generally don't go over 20 warriors in 1500pts and I've never been called cheesy or unsportsmanlike, because I play a CC list that really needs stuff other than warriors. Also, it is vulnerable to the opponent phasing it out. In 5th edition, I'd say for now it's more important to protect your warriors, which will prevent phase-out, rather than field more of them. You can always place them on an objective in turn 5, where their durability will help them survive the chances of random game length bringing extra rounds.

Different approaches require different unit selections.

Offline BearBitesHurt

  • Insolent: Forum Blockhead
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1792
  • Careful: I might talk to you like you're an adult
Re: 1500pt League List
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2008, 05:53:06 PM »
Minimum Warriors + Destroyer Spam will definitely get you a Composition Score nerf at my LGS and I have to assume other stores as well.  I just wanted to bring it up as a possibility.

With 5th Edition Gauss rules it's really not all that easy to wipe an enemy off the board, especially if they have a decent amount of AV12+ Vehicles.  Warriors are very hard to get rid of entirely if you support them well, and IMO supporting them well means bringing at least 3 Units of them to doubleplusgood ensure them getting WBB.  And it's not like they're a bad unit anyway.

@ Gutstikk:  I don't think your lists would get hassled too much, since you go so far out of your way to make extremely unorthodox armies.  You're not looking for loopholes, and that's what composition is all about.

Offline Demonboy

  • Forum Idiot: I post so I don't have to read
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 317
Re: 1500pt League List
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2008, 07:21:44 PM »
I had a list similar to this but with 30 Necrons and they just dont do much damage.

Offline BearBitesHurt

  • Insolent: Forum Blockhead
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1792
  • Careful: I might talk to you like you're an adult
Re: 1500pt League List
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2008, 07:28:47 PM »
I had a list similar to this but with 30 Necrons and they just dont do much damage.

That's a pretty general statement.  What don't they do much damage against?

Offline Demonboy

  • Forum Idiot: I post so I don't have to read
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 317
Re: 1500pt League List
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2008, 09:48:35 PM »
Sisters of Battle. I shot with 10 rapid fire shots and killed 1 Sister of Battle, they just didn't seem to be effective. The Destroyers were amazing, killing entire units per turn.

MVP in my list (greatest -> least)
Destroyer
Immortals
Monolith
Heavy Destroyers
Necron Lord
Necron Warriors
Scarabs (I used them incorrectly)

Offline BearBitesHurt

  • Insolent: Forum Blockhead
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1792
  • Careful: I might talk to you like you're an adult
Re: 1500pt League List
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2008, 07:53:36 AM »
Sisters of Battle?  That's not really the best example to use.  If the SOB player has some faith points left a Baneblade isn't going to kill very many of them either.

Offline Demonboy

  • Forum Idiot: I post so I don't have to read
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 317
Re: 1500pt League List
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2008, 01:11:50 PM »
Sisters of Battle is an army, and my warriors did poorly.

Offline CrownAxe

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 195
  • "This is for the haters..."
Re: 1500pt League List
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2008, 01:20:56 PM »
Sisters of Battle is an army, and my warriors did poorly.
We all know its an army, the problem is that they have acts of faith that make them much tougher a that even baneblades have a tough time killing some, of course your warriors weren't going to kill alot of them

Offline Demonboy

  • Forum Idiot: I post so I don't have to read
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 317
Re: 1500pt League List
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2008, 01:28:27 PM »
Their acts of faith aren't that great. AP 1 weapons... well I'm in cover. Inv saves.... well I only have 2 models shooting at infantry with AP3. Higher I... lol because your I is too low? +Strength... now I attack first. Those are the common ones I saw, I know theres like 5-6 and I've played Sisters before and against armies with marine stats (including I) or lots of ap1-3/power weapons the acts are great but against Necron those acts didnt do much. Celastine had a 2+inv save almost the entire game and she still died (in CC).

HQ - Necron Lord - Veil, Res Orb - 200
Elite - 10 Immortals - 280
Troops - 10 Warriors - 180
Troops - 10 Warriors - 180
Troops - 10 Warriors - 180
Fast Attack - 10 Scarabs - 120
Heavy Support - Monolith - 235
Heavy Support - 1 Heavy Destroyer - 65
Heavy Support - 1 Heavy Destroyer - 65
I'll have trouble against large tanks like Land Raiders, but I still can kill them.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 01:37:26 PM by Demonboy »

Offline moc065

  • Infinity Circuit / Necrontyr Lord / KoN Warlord
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8827
  • Country: ca
  • King of the Preemptive Strike
    • klucas.piczo.com
Re: 1500pt League List
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2008, 02:32:32 PM »
Their acts of faith aren't that great. AP 1 weapons... well I'm in cover. Inv saves.... well I only have 2 models shooting at infantry with AP3. Higher I... lol because your I is too low? +Strength... now I attack first. Those are the common ones I saw, I know theres like 5-6 and I've played Sisters before and against armies with marine stats (including I) or lots of ap1-3/power weapons the acts are great but against Necron those acts didnt do much. Celastine had a 2+inv save almost the entire game and she still died (in CC).

HQ - Necron Lord - Veil, Res Orb - 200
Elite - 10 Immortals - 280
Troops - 10 Warriors - 180
Troops - 10 Warriors - 180
Troops - 10 Warriors - 180
Fast Attack - 10 Scarabs - 120
Heavy Support - Monolith - 235
Heavy Support - 1 Heavy Destroyer - 65
Heavy Support - 1 Heavy Destroyer - 65
I'll have trouble against large tanks like Land Raiders, but I still can kill them.

Are you still asking how to use this as a Phalanx based army.... I wouldn't but thats jsut me... anyway here is a load of Phalanx data for you.

Deploy Warriors in the following 2 shapes, each with its own benefits:

Again, this depends on what type of CC enemy or shooty army you face.

Method 1:
x x x x x x x x x x
y y y y y y y y y y
z z z z z z z z z z z
(or some other variant in a line)

This method builds in some CC absorbtion as the enemy has to go through 1 unit to get to the others… Buys you time and possible Cover Saves; but also limits your clear LOS to the enemy (unless unit x, is something that moves prior to your shooting and then uses “Run” to get back in front to form the screen). This method also allows the squads to fire at almost theirs full strength at an incoming enemy units. Squad x shoul dbe your Scarabs of Flayed Ones, etc, as if their not charging your at the enemy they shoul dbe sued to slow the enemy.

Method 2:
x x x x x         x x x x x
x x x x x         x x x x x
|--- 6"---|--3"-|---6"---|

Remember, packed the models together to maximise concentrated firepower and limit the enemies options on flank manoeuvres (terrain dependant of course). Now this can get you more shooting options; but also opens the door to “bridge Assaults” over both units from those larger enemy units, and often does not provide any Cover to your Phalanx from incoming fire.

Formation 4:
x x x x x x x x x x              x x x x x x x x x x
      |-------12"-----|---6"----|-------12"------|

Now this can get you Maximum firepower with both units due to all figures possibly having RF range; but, its cost is that there is not defense what so ever…




Thus I recommend an alternative for your army that is more like this.
s = Scarabs
x = Warriors
L = Lord
i = Immortals
and the Mono is Self explanatory.

s – s – s – s – s – s – s – s – s – s – s 
xx xx xx xx xx          xx xx xx xx xx
                           L
   I – I – I – I – I – I – I – I – I – I

     Third Warrior squad can be used in deep cover to hold the objective and to thwart PO, or several other options. And the Mono can running "Blocking" manoeuvres on either flank as needed, or slightly in front to give the option of the teleport to any unit. The Immortals can PoP forward if the Scarabs are going down, to build a second layer of defence when needed or remember that the VOD can get them into tight spots to wreak havoc if required as well (also a considerationfor the 3rd Warriors Squad). This still leaves you H-D’s to work with your Monolith, coming out just far enough to gain LOS on an enemy target and thus keeping some of the “Blocking “ feature of the Mono working for them to.

When Not to use phalanx
When the enemy has template weapons (seriously, large blast ca hurt a lot), is the only time tighly packed phalanx is inadvisable. Spread out but remember to keep within coherency and within WBB units if you can

Here is a little tweek I learned form Eviceratus…
-- For fun, I sometimes use a sideways V formation to keep the Necrons in two ranks, but spaced out, like this:

                                                            W    W    W    W    W
                                                                                               W

                                                                                               W
                                                            W    W    W    W    W

I'm sure you get my meaning behind this. That gap between the front rank and rear rank is a good few inches wide.
”Go on, waste your templates by hitting 2 or 3 warriors with your best shot.” You tell you opponent,   Wink, Wink….
And, after the pie-plate danger is over, the Warriros tend to close ranks a little more for effective rapid fire, etc

Advancing Troops with Phalanx Formation
When there isn't any Monolith around to port the Warriors up to shoot, or a Lord with Veil of Darkness to do the same, more often than not we find ourselves marching the Warriors up the board to find targets to shoot at. Most people usually do either one or the other of these two things:
-- 1. Some march the Warriors within rapid range and stays there till target unit is dead or falling back.
-- 2. Some stops at 24" range and shoot.

With method 1, Warriors need to go very near. Effectlvely having to survive at 2-3 turns of fire (even if they “Run”) due to difficult terrain before they can stop to rapid fire, and they may also suffer a potential assault as they go.
With method 2, requires a turn to move and often does not have enough shots to make a difference.
So, by combining the two tactics above, we have leap frogging Phalanx Formation.
Every turn one unit of Warrior stays to shoot while the other unit(s) advances. Thus there is shooting every turn to keep opponent heads down.

Holy crap, that turned into a Book (Sorry)... but some things have changed in 5th Ed as to running a Phalanx style army... so I thought I would throw my thoughts at you.
Join POC: Saim-Hann
or Read the Guide to Eldar
or read the Guide to Necrons


And Click here if you like Magic The Gathering

Offline Demonboy

  • Forum Idiot: I post so I don't have to read
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 317
Re: 1500pt League List
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2008, 03:23:12 PM »
That's very very helpful. Previously my Phalanx looked like this: (The letters should be easily identified)
1750pts vs Sisters

S - S - S - S - S  S - S - S - S - S    [                   ]
        W-W-W-W-W W-W-W-W-W   [Monolith       ]
        W-W-W-W-W W-W-W-W-W   [                   ]
 D - D  I - I - I - I - I      L
       |                 I - I - I - I - I
D - D - D                         HD  -  HD      HD  -  HD

It worked fine, I just used my destroyer's wrong by not taking advantage of 36" range.

Typically I have the Scarabs in front to provide cover, however, I only do this against enemies who will not benefit from the scarabs' cover (such as space marines).

Against Armies who dont need cover (mostly power armored foes):
0'                                                                       3'                                                                       6'
[                 10 Scarabs              ][   Monolith   ]
[    5 Warriors    ][    5 Warriors  ][                  ]
[    5 Warriors    ][    5 Warriors  ][                  ]
[            10 Warriors                  ][   2 H. D.s   ]

The Heavy Destroyers will pop out on the side of the Monolith just barely far enough to kill tanks or w/e, but stay out of LOS for the other stuff. The Scarabs will be jetting across the board and will be assaulting very dangerous people (large shooty squads or tough CC sqauds I wont be able to shoot down). The Monolith and Warriors will be footslogging across the board capping objectives and the Monolith will probably be used to contest (forcing the enemy to attack it). The Lord and Immortals will be hidden really far away and behind cover so they dont get shot at and they will be used to flank the enemy with veil, shoot up whatever they'll have the most success shooting and then veiling away.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 03:38:10 PM by Demonboy »

 


Powered by EzPortal