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Offline Claw

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51st State?
« on: December 29, 2006, 11:57:20 AM »
Puerto Rico, Washington D.C., U.S. Territories, New York City, Chicago, Michigan, Guyana,  Philippines, Taiwan???
Alberta? Canada?

All these places are speculated to be the 51st state. Advocation for Statehood into the United States or even have been called the 51st State. Is there much chance for one of these to be the 51st state or even the 52nd or 53rd in the future?

Offline Sir Sam Vimes

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2006, 12:01:29 PM »
I think Iraq has a greater chance of becoming the 51st than your options  ::)

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2006, 12:09:17 PM »
Last I checked, Michigan was a state.  And Chicago and New York were cities, inside other states. 
Canada has been called the 51st state, but we would never actually become one.  Alberta...Alberta would do just fine on its own, and once again, logistic problems of being inside another country...
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2006, 12:23:40 PM »
Puerto Rico is a US territory I believe which gives them a number of the advantages of statehood but certainly not many or all.

Taiwan is having enough trouble maintaining its own Independence from China to even worry about US statehood. I would imagine the Taiwanese being rather insulted by the idea.

As mentioned, Chicago and New York are cities. Michigan is a state. Guyana is a country.

Anyway, we all know the 51st State is Israel.  ;)
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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2006, 12:46:54 PM »
I think its time we annex Puerto Rico. Give them frigging statehood already. Right now, they get many of the benefits of being a state, but very little of the downsides, I.E. taxes.

The Phillipines are a country, are they not? Why would we annex and INDEPENDENT nation?
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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2006, 12:57:01 PM »
coxo, you've obviously never been to Puerto Rico, or even met anybody from there. Does the phrase taxation without representation ring any bells? That's Puerto Rico. Also, my (English) aunt currently residing in Columbia, South Carolina. Puerto Ricans are missing quite a lot of rights, such as the right to decide which war they are about to be drafted into fighting
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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2006, 01:11:42 PM »
Puerto Rico information from linky

Quote
Facts about Puerto Rico's Relationship with the U.S.

As citizens of the United States, Puerto Ricans are protected by the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Puerto Rico's local government, which consists of the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government, is subject to the U.S. Constitution.

The people of Puerto Rico cannot vote for the President of the United States.

The Island is represented in the U.S. House of Representatives by an elected Resident Commissioner who votes at the Committee level but has no vote in the full House. Puerto Rico has no representation in the U.S. Senate.

As in mainland states, all federal agencies are represented in Puerto Rico.

Puerto Rico residents, individuals and corporations, contribute to the local income tax and do not pay federal income tax, except for income derived from sources outside of Puerto Rico. Island residents pay Social Security and Medicare taxes.
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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2006, 01:12:10 PM »
New York and Chicago have advocating parties that the cities should leave the state and become their own state. Something on par what D.C. or major Euro cities have, like Paris, their own district. State.

Michigan has had talk to split on the Pennsulia, sort of like West Virgina and Virginia.

Strangely a poll on where the future of Taiwan is headed in the future 15% said US.

http://www.nycstatehood.org/index.php
« Last Edit: December 29, 2006, 01:16:51 PM by Claw »

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2006, 01:57:29 PM »
Words

Why didn't you say so in the first place?  :)

I seriously doubt Taiwan will head towards the US. They gain little benefit at the cost of their independence. Even actively heading in that direction could have China freak out (more).
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Offline Claw

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2006, 02:05:41 PM »
It would be a strange twist to have Taiwan somehow become a state of the US.

I have high hopes for Puerto Rico and possibly NYC. Though in Puerto Rico they seem to like how things more but definitly don;t want to leave.

Guyana was a surprise http://www.guyanausa.org/

There are over 500,000 Guyanese in the US and Canada, compared to 750,000 in Guyana.

If the words of US and Guyana intergration is heard by Chavez though we all know he will go off the handle.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2006, 02:07:28 PM by Claw »

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2006, 02:19:34 PM »
People like the number 50.  It's a nice number.  I don't see it changing at any time in the near future, considering how often the subject comes up over the years.
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Offline Irandrura

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2006, 07:28:42 PM »
It would be a strange twist to have Taiwan somehow become a state of the US.

Hasn't China more or less said that they will invade Taiwan if reunification ceases to be possible? Linky. (I can say that, right? :D)

Quote
In the event that the "Taiwan independence" secessionist forces should act under any name or by any means to cause the fact of Taiwan's secession from China, or that major incidents entailing Taiwan's secession from China should occur, or that possibilities for a peaceful reunification should be completely exhausted, the state shall employ non-peaceful means and other necessary measures to protect China's sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Annexation by the USA seems to be such a circumstance. As war with China is not high on the US' priority list, I doubt they'd do such a thing any time soon.
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Offline Lt. Pinard

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2006, 10:54:51 PM »
On the michigan part I am almost positive I've hear something that a state can not be splint. Its a law or something.

And before you say it West virginia only happened because of the civil war.

Offline Valhalla114

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2006, 11:37:14 PM »
I was born in Puerto Rico and they have citizenship and a bunch of benefits. They also have a huge port and pay taxes in other ways like you and I (talking to Americans here).

But recently a sales tax was imposed on them so that they would "pay their dues". Its true they were freeloading and not changing for the better. Bunch of slackers...sorry cousins.

As to becoming a state, a territory has to want to become a state and draft its constitution. Thats from US History. And so far, public opinion goes 33% Want to, 33 % Dont want and would prefer to be independent to the US and like always 33 % dont give a rat's ass and would like to keep the system as is. So, its not becoming a state any time soon because it doesnt want to. However, it doesnt want to become its own state.

Cuba, like Puerto Rico in that it was won from Spain in the Spanish American war 1898, chose to become independent rather than stay a territory. The Phillipines was taken away from the US from the Japs in WWII were later liberated by Yanks and were subsequently liberated at their own request.

Big Cities:

Big Cities like NY and Chicago wont easily be seprated from their states because theyre economic powerhouses in their own respects. The states that they belong to wont release the states so easily and also will not be able to deal with such a massive change. Not to mention new state to state laws and structures that would need to be formed.
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Offline chaos0xomega

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2006, 12:36:33 AM »
coxo, you've obviously never been to Puerto Rico, or even met anybody from there. Does the phrase taxation without representation ring any bells? That's Puerto Rico. Also, my (English) aunt currently residing in Columbia, South Carolina. Puerto Ricans are missing quite a lot of rights, such as the right to decide which war they are about to be drafted into fighting

Please see Rummy.

Quote
Strangely a poll on where the future of Taiwan is headed in the future 15% said US.

Who voted in this? The Taiwanese people? If so, that is surprising. But do you reall ythink the US would allow it? Such action could toss the US into a very bitter and confusing conflict.

Quote
If the words of US and Guyana intergration is heard by Chavez though we all know he will go off the handle.

Going by the numbers, we already have something like 40% of the population here, might as well, right. As for Chavez, he can go suck it.

Quote
As to becoming a state, a territory has to want to become a state and draft its constitution. Thats from US History. And so far, public opinion goes 33% Want to, 33 % Dont want and would prefer to be independent to the US and like always 33 % dont give a rat's ass and would like to keep the system as is. So, its not becoming a state any time soon because it doesnt want to. However, it doesnt want to become its own state.

I say suck it and annex that be-atch already.

Quote
Big Cities like NY and Chicago wont easily be seprated from their states because theyre economic powerhouses in their own respects. The states that they belong to wont release the states so easily and also will not be able to deal with such a massive change. Not to mention new state to state laws and structures that would need to be formed.
\

Yeah, if you think about it, those massive cities in many of those states are what is keeping the rest of the state alive. Think how much state tax revenue comes from NYC, Chicago, etc. Washington on the other hand, could easily become a state as it is already its own entity.

I'm surprised noone has brought up losing a state yet though. Texas is the only state in the Union with the right to legally and legitimately secede from the Union(and thereby cripple the rest of the USA, Texas contains so much of what the country needs to keep running its ridiculous).
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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2006, 01:39:54 AM »
Puerto Rico is a US territory I believe which gives them a number of the advantages of statehood but certainly not many or all.

Taiwan is having enough trouble maintaining its own Independence from China to even worry about US statehood. I would imagine the Taiwanese being rather insulted by the idea.

As mentioned, Chicago and New York are cities. Michigan is a state. Guyana is a country.

Anyway, we all know the 51st State is Israel.  ;)


Preach brother!  ;D\

I think its time we annex Puerto Rico. Give them frigging statehood already. Right now, they get many of the benefits of being a state, but very little of the downsides, I.E. taxes.

The Phillipines are a country, are they not? Why would we annex and INDEPENDENT nation?

You did it once before!

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2006, 04:43:40 AM »
coxo, you've obviously never been to Puerto Rico, or even met anybody from there. Does the phrase taxation without representation ring any bells? That's Puerto Rico. Also, my (English) aunt currently residing in Columbia, South Carolina. Puerto Ricans are missing quite a lot of rights, such as the right to decide which war they are about to be drafted into fighting

Please see Rummy.

I did. What's your point? They don't get an elected representative in Congress. That's what I was saying. How has that dismantled my point?
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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2006, 04:37:43 PM »
Rather than becoming larger, if anything (though the following is itself rather unlikely) it would seem to me that the US will be more likely to become smaller, as a hispanization of the south and west lead to a break down in its cultural and, more importantly, linguistic unity. If Spanish were to supplant English as the main language, and Catholicism to supplant Protestantism as the main religion, the US could become much less united in those regions.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2006, 04:39:29 PM by CG »
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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2006, 12:25:32 AM »
coxo, you've obviously never been to Puerto Rico, or even met anybody from there. Does the phrase taxation without representation ring any bells? That's Puerto Rico. Also, my (English) aunt currently residing in Columbia, South Carolina. Puerto Ricans are missing quite a lot of rights, such as the right to decide which war they are about to be drafted into fighting

Please see Rummy.

I did. What's your point? They don't get an elected representative in Congress. That's what I was saying. How has that dismantled my point?
From Rummy's Post.
Maybe you're too ignorant of the US government to know that we have a bicameral legislature, meaning two bodies: The House of Representatives, and the Senate. PR has Representation in half of Congress.
Quote
The Island is represented in the U.S. House of Representatives by an elected Resident Commissioner who votes at the Committee level but has no vote in the full House. Puerto Rico has no representation in the U.S. Senate.

Quote
Rather than becoming larger, if anything (though the following is itself rather unlikely) it would seem to me that the US will be more likely to become smaller, as a hispanization of the south and west lead to a break down in its cultural and, more importantly, linguistic unity. If Spanish were to supplant English as the main language, and Catholicism to supplant Protestantism as the main religion, the US could become much less united in those regions.

Don't see that happening too easily. There are still too many racist pricks in the country. When such an issue really starts to occur, you're going to see some large-scale near-Naziism and 'ethnic cleansing' going on, unless Americans are so stupid they don't realize that the country is being taken over.
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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2006, 05:47:48 AM »
No vote in the full house doesn't sound like 50% legislation to me. They have NOBODY in the Senate and someone who can, in the House of Representatives, put up his hand and say "please sir, I want some more". That's a bit rubbish. Read the post you're quoting before you use it to back up your case.

Quote
The Island is represented in the U.S. House of Representatives by an elected Resident Commissioner who votes at the Committee level but has no vote in the full House. Puerto Rico has no representation in the U.S. Senate.

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