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Author Topic: WBB from Jaws of the World Wolf? [was Lash and Jaws and Deepstrikers, Oh my!]  (Read 1051 times)

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Offline Spacefrisian

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Meh Jaws is not that bad since we get our wbb from it.


Sorry to bring it to you but no you dont get wbb from it, the model is removed from play not killed. P37 SW codex.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 06:54:49 PM by Gutstikk »
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Offline NecronCell2131

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Re: Re: Lash and Jaws and Deepstrikers, Oh my!
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2010, 02:58:30 AM »
Meh Jaws is not that bad since we get our wbb from it.


Sorry to bring it to you but no you dont get wbb from it, the model is removed from play not killed. P37 SW codex.

 Sorry to bring it to you but if you check the Faq you will see that the last laugh does the same thing "Remove from play" and we get our wbb roll from that.
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Offline int main()

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Re: Re: Lash and Jaws and Deepstrikers, Oh my!
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2010, 06:37:46 AM »
It only handles that last laugh thing not jaws. Both are 2 different things.


No. The Last Laugh ruling is perfectly applicable to Jaws as both share the same wording of 'remove enemy models from play'(paraphrased slightly) .

Let me quote an example of your line of argument, albeit a not so recent one(if you played 4th edition before you might remember this). A question was asked in the old Eldar FAQ whether a wraithcannon could penetrate a skimmer moving more than 6''. The answer was that the Skimmer Moving Fast rule was a blanket rule that took precendence over everything so, no the wraithcannon cannot penetrate such a skimmer. If we were to use your line of reasoning, the ruling would apply only wraithcannons, and nothing else, but as we can see from the approx 4 years of 4th edition, that's simply not the case.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 06:55:36 PM by Gutstikk »
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Offline NecronCell2131

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Re: Re: Lash and Jaws and Deepstrikers, Oh my!
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2010, 02:44:35 PM »
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m800008a_FAQ_SpaceWolves_Jan2010

 Last laugh does the same thing as Jaws aka "removes from play"

 In the Necron codex under WBB it says "if reduced to 0 wounds or removed as a casualty for any reason we get our wbb unless it was double our str or a weapon in close combat that denies our save"

 Since there is no separate category for Remove from play then we must assume that to be Removed from play is the same as removed as a casualty.

 The rules that remove from play models all specifically deny wbb in the rules such as Death or glory (its written right into the newer necron codex wbb entry) and Vortex grenades say no clever way of living will allow you to survive (or something close to that)
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Offline Spacefrisian

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Re: Re: Lash and Jaws and Deepstrikers, Oh my!
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2010, 02:50:15 PM »
I guess we wont have a winner here as neither is going to back down on statements and or wording of rules. We should stop on this subject before things get to much out of hand.
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Offline NecronCell2131

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Re: Re: Lash and Jaws and Deepstrikers, Oh my!
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2010, 05:18:12 PM »
 Please don't turn your head I've laid out the rules that correspond and it all points to necrons getting WBB.

 Id like you to pull up an argument saying that Jaws deny WBB otherwise dont be stubborn, the rules are the rules if you cant come up with anything to the contrary then rules as written.
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Offline Log

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Re: Re: Lash and Jaws and Deepstrikers, Oh my!
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2010, 06:08:28 PM »

 Since there is no separate category for Remove from play then we must assume that to be Removed from play is the same as removed as a casualty.

 

Right I'd like to start by saying I'm not a necron nor SW player and I have not read the FAQ yet, so my reply will be soley based on the evidence that you have given and I am taking it as that you have quoted word for word, as this can make a real difference.

I answer the quoted statement with 'why must we?'

You seem to quote

"if reduced to 0 wounds or removed as a casualty for any reason we get our wbb unless it was double our str or a weapon in close combat that denies our save"

However I'm fairly confident that this is not the exact wording. Based on my trust that you have given fair representation though I can say it is clear from JOWW that you are not being removed as a casualty or reduced to 0 wounds, you are being removed from play. Your model is being removed, there is no marker left for WBB, it is removed, not a casualty, removed.

However if this does not convince you, as I doubt it will, I suggest bringing it up on the rules forum.

Offline Guildmage Aech

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However I'm fairly confident that this is not the exact wording. Based on my trust that you have given fair representation though I can say it is clear from JOWW that you are not being removed as a casualty or reduced to 0 wounds, you are being removed from play. Your model is being removed, there is no marker left for WBB, it is removed, not a casualty, removed.

And you can prove that 'removed from play' and 'removed as a casualty' are not the same thing? Surely if the  model is removed from play it becomes a casualty.... this isn't Magic the Gathering where removed from the game is defined as separate from simply being killed, discarded or sent to the graveyard.

I see no evidence that WBB is prevented, none of the triggers that disallow it's normal use have been used. Therefore WBB should work as normal.
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Offline TheGreatAvatar

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How about quoting the actual rule, or at least reference correctly. The WBB rules states "A Necron cannot self-repair if it is destroyed by a close combat weapon that allows no Armour save or any weapon whose Strength is twice the Toughness of the Necron concerned." (Codex: Necron, p. 13)

So, if a model in close combat is removed without getting an armour save, then no WBB. And if the model is removed from the table it is not in range of any ResOrb.

And for those range attacks that remove a model from the table, if the model is not on the table it get a WBB since it is not within 6" of a like model.


Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Read the stickies in the Rules forum FTW and you will realise that this debate on the wording of "removed from play" vs "casualty" has been debated before.

And just to be clear we are not going down this road again...

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PS.  Thanks to TGA's arguement for reminding me of this link though as he has used this arguement before.
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