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Author Topic: Orks vs Adeptus Astartes 1000 pts  (Read 1549 times)

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Offline Blazinghand

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Orks vs Adeptus Astartes 1000 pts
« on: June 27, 2017, 04:52:07 AM »
Played against Kingsley again at the game store. We played Matched Play at 1000 pts. I ran my Orks vs his Space Marines.

Army Lists

Blazinghand's List:
1x PATROL detachment of Orks (3 CP)
++HQ++
Warboss with Power Klaw
++TROOPS++
30 Slugga Boyz, 1 is Nob with Klaw
11 Shoota Boyz, 1 is Nob with Klaw
10 Shoota Boyz, 1 is Nob with Klaw
22 Slugga Boyz, 1 is Nob with Klaw *1
++HEAVY SUPPORT++
3 Killa Kans, 2 with Rokkit Launcha, 1 with Big Shoota
1 Big gun: Zzap gun
++DEDICATED TRANSPORTS++
2x Trukk with no frills

*1: When I brought my army list, it originally did not include this unit. I'd miscalculated the cost of my HQ and had about 150 unspent points. With Kingsley's permission, I just added a unit of as many Boyz as I had spare points for joined by a Klaw Nob on the spot and wrote it into my army list, even though this wasn't correct/legal, to bring my points up to 1,000 so we could start the game.



Kingsley's List:
1x BATTALION Detachment of Imperials (6 CP)
++HQ++
Captain with Storm Bolter, Power Axe
Librarian with Force Staff, Bolt Pistol
++ELITES++
Dreadnought with 2 twin Autocannons
Eversor Assassin
++TROOPS++
5 Tac Marines with Plasgun, Combi-Plasma
5 Tac Marines with Plasgun, Combi-Plasma
5 Tac Marines with Plasgun, Combi-Plasma
++DEDICATED TRANSPORTS++
2x Razorback with Lascannon, Twin Plasguns, Storm Bolter
1x Razorback with Twin Assault Cannon, Storm Bolter



Setup and Deployment
We rolled for modes and got Secure and Control as our mission, the classic 2-control-point super drawish mission. However, with Slay the Warlord, First Blood, and Linebreaker all giving 1 Victory Point each, it is definitely possible to win without completely wiping the enemy.

Our deployment mode we rolled up was Spearhead Assault, which has each of us taking a table edge and having a chevron-shaped, well, spearhead-like deployment zone, with the closest point between our deployment zones being a mere 18 inches nose-to-nose right in the center. I won the roll-off and picked the side with the crater, so that my opponent wouldn't be able to use it to make it harder for me to charge him. It also looked like a good place to park my Big Gun.



Kingsley and I each set up the objectives. I put mine at the front of my deployment zone in some ruins, since I figured I'll be running at him full tilt and want to be able to access my own easily. He puts his as far back as he can, 6" off the edge, since he'd be trying to hang back. We take turns deploying. Since Kinsgley can deploy in 5 moves if he loads his marines into the razorbacks with his HQs, I know I'll be going second. I put my artillery on the objective and Kingsley drops his dreadnought on his own objective. I pile in most of my units in the front, putting my Kans and Trukks in front of my mob of 30 Boyz. My Warboss goes in a Trukk. Kingsley deploys his Razors just out of range of the Zzap gun, but otherwise as far forward as he can, with all his tac marines and his HQs inside. The Eversor Assassin is in reserve. I (rather regrettably) deploy one squad of boyz by my own objective, concerned I may need to defend.



I fail to seize the initiative, but remember a key learning from the last game: Better a CP wasted than a chance to go first wasted. Every turn of shooting I deny my opponent is super worth it. So, spending a CP to use a Command Re-Roll Strategem, I roll again to seize the initiative...



Yes!

Top of Turn 1 (Imperials) (Orkz):

So, this is great. I get to get closer without Kinglsey shooting my Trukks out from under me. I move and Advance with all units but the Big Gun, which Zzaps and fails to do anything useful. I am concerned about a potential surround, and try to present long faces and put my Trukks near each other to prevent it. My Kanz are juuuust 25" away from his front Razor, so only the Big Shoota fires, as well as some weapons on and in the Trukks. No serious damage happens. My squad of 22 Boyz is sadly out of position as I realize of course I want to charge forward as soon as I can with them.



Bottom of Turn 1 (Imperials):

Kingley pours most of his anti-vehicle fire onto the Kans and the Trukks, popping a Kan and the Trukk in the back. Plasma and Assault Cannon rounds streak out of his vehicles, Lascannon shots from his Razorbacks joined by Plasgun shots from the marines that jump out. His bolters and assault cannons open up on the Boyz that pile out of the downed Trukk (I forgot to use the ramshackle ability, aaaaaa), wiping them out.



He puts some fire into the Trukk, bringing it down to 2 wounds, but doesn't finish it off. Why? Well, he wants every model inside to die when it does, so he wants to fill the disembarkation zone. If there is no space for models to legally disembark a destroyed vehicle, they too are destroyed. This vehicle contains my Warboss, 10 boyz, and a boss Nob, so it's a ripe prize. Two of his tac squads roll good charges and his Libarian and Captain join the fight, piling in to surround the vehicle.



You'll note they don't go into base-to-base. This is intentional. The range for disembarkation is 3", so your ideal situation is for some models to be about 1" away from the vehicle, and every other model to be 2" away from the vehicle but 1" away from a model that is within 1" of the vehicle (and therefore eligible to fight). This best fills the 3" disembarkation area with models and prevents the passengers from disembarking (since they can't disembark within 1" of an enemy). Naively pushing into base-to-base would give enough space behind for a full squad to safely disembark. So yes, if you want to surround and destroy a vehicle with all hands lost, you need to do a weird zig-zaggy formation with your surround, and avoid base-to-base contact.



Rather hilariously, after all this effort, Kingsley fails to actually down the Trukk. It takes 1 wound but makes the rest of its saves.

Top of Turn 2 (Orks):




Things are looking dicey for my HQ, the squad of boyz, and the Trukk, which collectively represent about a quarter of my points. In rush the remainder of my units (sans Zzap gun, which shoots pointlessly). No Advancing this turn, because we're going to charge!



No overwatch for units already in assault. The front squad of tactical marines melts under over 100 attacks from the Boyz squad. Sadly, I consolidate forward, closing off the opportunity for the Warboss and the Boyz to disembark from the Trukk. It seems that instead of rescuing him, my Boyz are likely to effectively trample him to death. Then again, "rescue" and "trample to death" are two sides of the same coin, for Orks!

My Kan has also charged in, on the other squad, the back one. However, after my Boyz fought, Kingsley spent two Command Points to use the Counter-Offensive strategem, which let him use one his eligible units and have them fight next. Worrying my Kan would clear out another Marine or two, opening a gap for my Trukk passengers to escape, Kingsley decisively had his Captain act next, hitting the Trukk and destroying it.



The Trukk was lost with all hands.



Bottom of Turn 2 (Imperials):

The Librarian remains engaged in assault with my Kan, and the weakened Tac squad Falls Back. Another Tac Squad moves forward to fill the gap. Kingsley concentrates all his firepower on my now-disengaged squad of Boyz, killing many of them before charging with his 3rd tac squad.



However, my boyz prove somewhat a match for them, knocking off a couple of them. Ont op of that, the Killa Kan gets lucky and takes down the Librarian in two swings.



At this point, I have a decision to make. The squad of Boyz lost 20 models this turn, and will autofail this morale check and be wiped out. However, I can spend my 2 remaining CP on Insane Bravery to automatically pass the check and keep them alive. It's just 4 Boyz and the Boss Nob, but the Boss Nob has one of the two living Power Klaws (three, if you count the Kan Klaw) that i'll need to take down the Captain and the Razorbacks. If I want to win, I need that Power Klaw.

I use the Strategem, and the Boyz live.

Top of Turn 3 (Orks):

This is it, Boyz. This is where we make it or break it. My squad of (exactly, now) 20 Boyz piles in, and pours attacks onto the Tac squad, grinding it to dust. The captain, 2 tac marines, three razorbacks, and a Dreadnought yet live. The Zzap gun manages to wound something this turn.



Bottom of Turn 3 (Imperials):

The Eversor Assassin shows up from reserves and picks off the 2 grots manning the Zzap gun, removing me from my own objective.




At this point, I'm down to a single squad of 20 Boyz, which will likely be killed or somewhat weakened by shooting this turn, and having given up first blood, warlord, and linebreaker, even if through incredible luck I down his warlord and 2 tac marines, and kill all his transports, push onto his objective and kill his dread, he'd still win due to the Eversor assassin 60 inches away in the other direction.

The Orkz concede.

Final Tally:

Blazinghand Concedes!

----

Some key learnings:
1. Zzap guns. Man, where do I begin. Either you miss, or you roll bad for strength, or SOMETHING. Next time, I'm taking Kannons. Still, it did a decent job of "sit on the objective and be cheap."
2. This time I tried not taking a weirdboy, thinking my extra boyz would get me to melee. This was wrong. Take the weirdboy, Blazinghand. If you won't mount everything up, take the weirdboy.
3. Every Command Point Strategem is good. The Command re-roll, we all know and love. The Insane Bravery saved a squad of Boyz that were going to auto-wipe to morale both this game and last game, giving the Nob and his buddies another round of assault. Kingsley's usage of Counter-Offensive was frankly inspired, and wiped out a quarter of my army. There is a time and a place for everything.
4. Also, Razorbacks are pretty good tanks. With a Storm Bolter, Twin Plasguns, and Lascannon, they surely can't be cheap, but they were able to put some serious hurt on the Kans and the Trukks.
5. Don't deploy some of your boyz off to the side on a triangle deployment zone like this, they won't make it there until turn 3. Instead, put the Boyz in the center if they have to footslog, and Trukks on the side. The Trukks will catch up.
6. Don't let your Trukk get surrounded. This is very important. This has happened in two of the three games I've played. I tried to be cute with the trukks this time, but put them nose-to-nose and leaving more space in front would be wiser. If you're gonna be cute with Trukks, don't be cute with the one that has 180 points of HQ and Troops in it, be cute with the one that has 80 points of troops in it.
7. Rerolling the Seize The Initiative roll is highly good for Orks. Even if it doesn't work, it's worth doing every time.
8. Killa Kanz are once again quite useful, perhaps even MVP. They take a beating, one of them killed a Tac Marine with a missile then smashed down a Librarian. I'm not really sure why they're so good.
9. Boyz remain good and basically melt anything they charge if they have big enough numbers, as long as that thing is a 5-man tac squad.

Thanks for reading!
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 04:59:17 AM by Blazinghand »
Quote from: Howard Zinn
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.

Offline dog_of_war

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Re: Orks vs Adeptus Astartes 1000 pts
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2017, 08:18:20 AM »
Another great battle report. Terrible luck with the loss of the trukk cargo, but hopefully lesson learned. Zzap guns have traditionally been disappointing, while kannons are relatively consistent. Lobbas may also be worth a look. Kans seem pretty awesome. I'm looking forward to trying them myself soon. I've got most equipped with grotzookas, so I'm curious to see how they perform.

Offline Irisado

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Re: Orks vs Adeptus Astartes 1000 pts
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2017, 08:51:41 AM »
This was a great read and it seemed a bit closer than the previous game, even though it was another defeat for the Orks.  The biggest problem was losing the Trukk with your Warboss aboard.  It's going to be critical for all assault based armies to prevent their transports from being surrounded like that, but it's not always easy.  If you hold back for too long, you risk transports being shot to pieces, but if you're too bold, they can be surrounded.

Either way, the game looked like a lot of fun.  Thanks for the report :).
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Orks vs Adeptus Astartes 1000 pts
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2017, 09:36:56 AM »
Thanks for yet another great report!

Yeah, the more reports I read and the more testing I do, the more Command Point abilities seem to be clutch at certain times--Counter-assault especially.

I feel like small squads are at a disadvantage this edition--I've been unimpressed with 5-man tac squads. They seem to lack the firepower to really hurt something but also add to your deployment drops. I guess it didn't hurt him this time around, but the desire to go back to full 10-man tac squads is fairly large. 

Offline Roboknee77

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Re: Orks vs Adeptus Astartes 1000 pts
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2017, 01:53:01 PM »
Thanks for the great write-up Blazinghand.  It's really helpful to see Orks in action with the new rules, what's working and what's not.  I'm really thinking about putting some Kans and a Weirdboy in my first list for 8e.

Offline Blazinghand

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Re: Orks vs Adeptus Astartes 1000 pts
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2017, 02:13:26 PM »
Another great battle report. Terrible luck with the loss of the trukk cargo, but hopefully lesson learned. Zzap guns have traditionally been disappointing, while kannons are relatively consistent. Lobbas may also be worth a look. Kans seem pretty awesome. I'm looking forward to trying them myself soon. I've got most equipped with grotzookas, so I'm curious to see how they perform.

Yeah, just looking over the statlines, it seems like Zzap gun, despite costing a little more than Kannon, isn't obviously better than it. To get higher S than a Kannon has, by rolling 2d6, only happens 28% of the time. The AP is better, but the damage isn't. The 1-in-12 chance of causing 3 mortal wounds SOUNDS strong, but I've played 3 games with varying amounts of Zzap guns and they've never actually managed to get it. I'm gonna shelve them for now.

I have models for Kannons, but not Lobbas (though I have some IG grenade launcher teams I could convert). The Rokkit Launcha Kans seem almost a little underwhelming in shooting, but they usually manage to either put a couple wounds on a vehicle or pop a marine or too. Grotzooka looks a lot more fun, and given the range that Kanz seem to operate in (I almost always move them towards the enemy quickly) a shot-ranged, multishot weapon may be better. They die fairly quickly if the enemy concentrated antitank weaponry on them, but if they're shooting at my Kanz they're not shooting at my Trukks.

This was a great read and it seemed a bit closer than the previous game, even though it was another defeat for the Orks.  The biggest problem was losing the Trukk with your Warboss aboard.  It's going to be critical for all assault based armies to prevent their transports from being surrounded like that, but it's not always easy.  If you hold back for too long, you risk transports being shot to pieces, but if you're too bold, they can be surrounded.

Either way, the game looked like a lot of fun.  Thanks for the report :).

Thanks! Yeah, this game I got his marines down to relatively low numbers. I was definitely pressing the attack in only one place and doing my best to get into melee, which helped. Losing that Trukk probably is what made the difference between "fairly even even fight" and "my boyz get mopped up" this time around. A valuable lesson in transport placement, though. One nice thing about vehicles is you can, at the start of movement, disembark up to 3" away from them. Coupled with a 5" regular move, 1d6 advance (since the Warboss lets you advance+charge), and 2d6 rerollable charge, Orks have a threat range of about 19" on average from the front end of the Trukk. Without the warboss, more like 16". Probably the correct move is to move so the trukk is far enough away that the boyz inside can threaten people, but not so close a normal enemy can reliably move+charge.

Thanks for the great write-up Blazinghand.  It's really helpful to see Orks in action with the new rules, what's working and what's not.  I'm really thinking about putting some Kans and a Weirdboy in my first list for 8e.

I think the Da Jump power from the Weirdboy is basically a must-take, if you are running a foot squad of some sort. I like using a 30-model unit of Boyz, since it's tough to reliably get such a unit into melee. I've heard some people toss around the idea of a big unit of Nobz or Meganobz doing it too. I will tinker with my 1k points list to get the wierdboy in and make it a Battalion detachment.
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Offline Saim-Dann

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Re: Orks vs Adeptus Astartes 1000 pts
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2017, 10:07:04 PM »
Hi Blazinghand!
That game was a hoot to read. Rhino surrounded, still didn't bust it open, then your own boys hinder while trying to help. That one scene there was as Orky as you can get.

Thanks for the post, mate. keep'm coming!

 


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