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Author Topic: 1750 "Wraithwall"  (Read 1719 times)

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Offline Sapo

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1750 "Wraithwall"
« on: October 3, 2012, 10:57:03 AM »
Hi there!

Being out of the Forum for a time now...but I want go back to my Eldar roots! Wraitwall is what it is!

So! I've played a couple a games when 6ed came out, but I've out since then.

Big question is, for this list: RB Psychic Powers or Eldar Codex? Divination is awesome...but there a couple of Powers in Eldar RB that catch my eye, like Fortune, especially with this list build.

Another option is drop Eldrad and get one cheap Fortune Seer and a Divination Seer (with Stones and 2 Powers).


Eldrad Ulthran (HQ) @ 210 Pts
   
10 Harlequin Troupe, Harlequin's Kiss (x6),Death Jester, Shadowseer, Troupe Master, Power Weapon  @ 264 Pt

10 Wraithguard, Spiritseer, Conceal @ 396 Pts

10 Guardian Defender Squad,  Scatter Laser @ 95 Pts
           
10 Guardian Defender Squad,  Scatter Laser @ 95 Pts

6 Guardian Jetbike Squadron @ 152 Pts
    Shuriken Cannon (x2)

5 Warp Spiders @ 110 Ptsr

5 Warp Spiders @ 110 Pts
   
1 Wraithlord @ 155 Pts
     2xFlamer, Bright Lance,Missile Launcher (x1)

1 Wraithlord @ 155 Pts
     2xFlamer, Bright Lance,Missile Launcher (x1)

Please tell me what you think!

Cheers!

Offline Dev Null

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Re: 1750 "Wraithwall"
« Reply #1 on: October 3, 2012, 11:55:47 AM »
I play a wraithwall list too, and I've got to say that I love Fortune with them.  The Divination "replacement" for it, Forewarning, isn't nearly as good for Wraithguard to my mind, unless you're facing a lot of heavy AP.  Especially if your seer takes Conceal, which mine generally does.  Divination seer with 2 powers is too random for my taste - you can't count on getting anything in particular (besides Prescience of course.)  Theres a whole thread going on this topic though.

Harlies behind the Wraithwall are great in this version.  Not real convinced by the Death Jester or even the Troupe Leader so far, preferring to save the points.  Everybody I face seems to have ludicrous Ld though; the Pinning from the Jester could definitely be useful against horde armies.

I love the Spiders.  Splitting them in 2 lets you split their fire, which is often nice, but when I tried it that way I found it hard to get a) both units arriving at the same turn, and b) not tripping over each other on their deep strike arrivals.  And if anything stuffed up and they arrived on different turns, they just got eaten one at a time.  You could not deep strike, of course, but it is a nice way of ensuring you get at least 1 solid round of shooting in.  Splitting them also potentially gives your opponent an extra VP in 1 scenario out of 3, though it also gives you an extra denial unit if they survive to the end.

Offline Galef

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Re: 1750 "Wraithwall"
« Reply #2 on: October 3, 2012, 12:03:15 PM »
As nice as the Div powers are for Eldar, having 10 Wraithgaurd & 10 Harlequins, I would stick with the Eldar powers.  Have Eldrad join one of them and Fortune both units.

Overall a pretty solid list.  I might suggest splitting the Jetbikes into 2 units of 3 and Reserving them.   Since they are your on fast Troop, they will get targetted and killed early.  Having 2 smaller units are easier to hide and doubles your chances to get 1 of them across the board unharmed.
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Offline Sapo

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Re: 1750 \"Wraithwall\"
« Reply #3 on: October 3, 2012, 01:34:18 PM »
Thanks for the reply, guys!

That are pretty much my concerns on it.

I think Eldrad and an extra Seer is way to much points in HQ. Either 2 Seer or Eldrad...but then I need one with Fortune (Ok...) and another with, at least 3 Powers...way to expensive! With this build, I think I'll steak with Eldar Powers. Conceal on Warlock is mandatory, no question about it.

About the Harlies...well my concern is to protect the Shadow Seer in Challenges ((which is a character if I'm not mistaken)...and the only way I can protect him is adding the Troupe Master with PW to accept the Challenge and and clear whatever is challenging. The Death Jester...is just for coolness factor and extra S6 shots.

The Warp Spiders are, by far, my favourite Eldar Unit!...and they didn't saw much love in 5th. A unit of 5 is...small I grant it, but more than 8 they will start to eat lots of points. After a couple of games I'll conclude what is the best option. They are are also useful for extra scoring in the Scourging mission...on the other hand...they also give an extra VP...

I can try to squeeze another unit of Harlies (2 units of 8 with Seer and 4 Kisses) by dropping one unit of Spiders, but I don't know how useful it will be.

The jetbikes. Now that is something that I struggle with it. 2x3 or1x6. I always tend to use them in bigger unit. Their Ld is "meh" and I'll test after lose one of them (size 3 squad), though is nice to have an extra scoring. I'll really love the fast they become in this Edition!

Post Merge: October  3, 2012, 01:47:18 PM
In the future, please use the modify button. Double posting is against the forum rules, and for that reason, the system merged your posts.

Something I might consider is Support Weapon battery (T7, 2W, Sv3+ and Gunners).

The Shadow Weaver catch my eye for price and range (it is a shame it doesn't have the ability of the Night Spinner).

D-Cannon is ok, though expensive and very short range.

Vibro cannon...not good at all...

Suggestions?
« Last Edit: October 3, 2012, 01:47:18 PM by Sapo »

Offline Atnas

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Re: 1750 "Wraithwall"
« Reply #4 on: October 3, 2012, 03:29:32 PM »
I think you ought to downgrade the Harlequins. I'm not sure how worth it is to to have the troupe master accept challenges... after all, the shadowseer is a good fighter and can probably kill off anything but IC and stuff. And even if she dies, you're in combat! Maybe the unit has served its purpose already?

I play a very similar list (almost down to every unit choice, I too love Warp Spiders) but I have been very hesitant about Harlequins. They can walk behind the Wraithguard and have that 2+ cover save in total, but I always worry that they in some games will go unusused and that they in other games get shot to bits when I need them the most- after all, weapons that ignore cover saves out there are not all that rare and without the cover save, Harlequins are veeery vulnerable.

Still cool as hell though.

Offline haunt

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Re: 1750 "Wraithwall"
« Reply #5 on: October 3, 2012, 03:45:54 PM »
I suppose I can say I do like the list, but I think I would be lying to you.

- IMHO, you're mixing far too many things your opponent can shoot at. You have 5 units that your opponent can shoot at all day and get KP or victory points from, not a good idea honestly.

- When using Wraithwalls you want your opponent to pick and choose the poison they want to swallow. Meaning your units can survive the 2 turns worth of shooting from your opponent and have him/her sighing in dismay that this feels like a lopsided battle. You have elements in your army that can outrun or out distance your anvil. You want the hammers to be nearby and drop on any unit that least expect them.
This is where Death rejoices, as he teaches the living.

Hoc est ubi mors gaudet, quod ipse docet vivis.

Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat

Offline Sapo

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Re: 1750 "Wraithwall"
« Reply #6 on: October 3, 2012, 04:22:57 PM »
I suppose I can say I do like the list, but I think I would be lying to you.

- IMHO, you're mixing far too many things your opponent can shoot at. You have 5 units that your opponent can shoot at all day and get KP or victory points from, not a good idea honestly.

- When using Wraithwalls you want your opponent to pick and choose the poison they want to swallow. Meaning your units can survive the 2 turns worth of shooting from your opponent and have him/her sighing in dismay that this feels like a lopsided battle. You have elements in your army that can outrun or out distance your anvil. You want the hammers to be nearby and drop on any unit that least expect them.

Thank you for your honesty. I appreciate it.

However, you are kind of vague.

5 Units: 2xGuardians, 2x Warp Spider and Jetbikes?

You could be right, however I think I'll need a firebase and a "Hammer". I think Harlies can be used as an Hammer and Spiders and Guardians are a way go get that "firebase".

But as I said, your post is vague, but you could help to clarify it, off course.

thank you for the reply.

Cheers!

Offline Atnas

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Re: 1750 "Wraithwall"
« Reply #7 on: October 3, 2012, 04:24:02 PM »
I'd love to hear aswell, since my list is so similar :P

Offline haunt

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Re: 1750 "Wraithwall"
« Reply #8 on: October 4, 2012, 02:53:46 AM »

10 Guardian Defender Squad,  Scatter Laser @ 95 Pts
           
10 Guardian Defender Squad,  Scatter Laser @ 95 Pts

6 Guardian Jetbike Squadron @ 152 Pts
    Shuriken Cannon (x2)

5 Warp Spiders @ 110 Ptsr

5 Warp Spiders @ 110 Pts


This is the weak point of your list. Your harlies are good to have as they are a counter-attack unit for your wraithguards. I think they become liabilities especially when you have 2 wraithlords already.

For a firebase, why not use pathfinders? What I am odded about your list is that it has a castle already to attract fire and survive it. Use Dire Avengers in WS with TLBL or TLEML.

Try your list first, if unsuccessful you can always revise it.

[spoiler]
This is the list I used for tournies in my LGCs

HQ
Eldrad [***]

Troops
WG x10 [399] Spiritseer, Conceal, Spear
Rangers x5 [95]
DA x10 [152] Exarch, ASCx2, Blade
+ WS [145] Stone, TL-BL
DA x10 [152] Exarch, ASCx2, Blade
+ WS [145] Stone, TL-BL

Heavy
AT-Lord [155] Flamer x2, BL, EML
AT-Lord [155] Flamer x2, BL, EML
Gun-Lord [155] Flamer x2, SL, StC

Total = 1748
[/spoiler]
This is where Death rejoices, as he teaches the living.

Hoc est ubi mors gaudet, quod ipse docet vivis.

Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat

Offline Atnas

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Re: 1750 "Wraithwall"
« Reply #9 on: October 4, 2012, 06:19:37 AM »
Are you saying that the Harlequins are good or bad to have? You seem to be saying both :P You don't think Warp Spiders fit? What about in bigger units?

Offline Sapo

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Re: 1750 "Wraithwall"
« Reply #10 on: October 4, 2012, 06:49:03 AM »
Now you're making yourself clear! Thank's!

I've consider all that. Rangers/Pathfinders, Waves and Falcons.

I haven't include them in the list for a couple of reasons...like don't have Rangers models (1st) and 2nd...few bodies, static and the general reduced cover save in 6ed.

I think 2 vehicles are not enough...they will have a huge "bullseye". Although I might consider a WS with SL (or 2x ShCannon) for the Guardians...not exactly for transport, but for the extra TL S6 shots (instead of the Warp Spiders).

I'm not a big fan on the DA Kitted Squad. I was at 4ed, but not anymore. Too much point invested in a "one shoot wonder" unit. It could work well with the Divination Powers...but I think I'll go with Eldar PPowers.

Jetbikes are a "speed" element for a latter objective grab!

I could go in other direction, I'm sure, but Harlies are in.

This kind of list will usual be outgunned by...everyone, I suppose. SM/BA/SW/GK, CSM, Tau...even Nids and SoB! I'll have to live with it. I can do minor tweaks...but in the end, I'll just add a couple of extra S6 shots.

Cheers!
« Last Edit: October 4, 2012, 06:53:22 AM by Sapo »

Offline Nologik

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Re: 1750 "Wraithwall"
« Reply #11 on: October 5, 2012, 12:20:03 AM »
This is the style of list that I am playing at the moment, love the Wraithguard :) So I will give you my thoughts on your list, take it as you will :).


Eldrad Ulthran (HQ) @ 210 Pts
Love Eldrad that power output is amazing with Wraithguard
   
10 Harlequin Troupe, Harlequin's Kiss (x6),Death Jester, Shadowseer, Troupe Master, Power Weapon  @ 264 Pt
Another solid choice, give them some cover, and if Eldrad is close he can fortune them for a really good cover save. This is a tough unit to kill shooting wise, and they are great in HtH. They will soak lots of fire. I am actually thinking of adding them in my current list. So let me know how it goes :)
10 Wraithguard, Spiritseer, Conceal @ 396 Pts
^is what I use for the troop choice

10 Guardian Defender Squad,  Scatter Laser @ 95 Pts
Here is the first problem I see with your list. 2 problems actually, first is that these guys are going to be all left alone in the back feild, and a strong breeze will kill them. Because your main force is moving to the middle to control it. So your guardians will be high and try to anything that trys to kill them. And 2 is that when you have 2 very tough units to crack I.E. Harlies and Wraithguard and Lords what are they going to kill? The super squishy guardians in the back. So my advice is go pathfinders. Against an army like marines where they have drop pods, you may want to reserve them so they don't die turn one. But if they do not, then you can place them by and objective. With the good cover save they have they are hard to kill from shooting.           
10 Guardian Defender Squad,  Scatter Laser @ 95 Pts

6 Guardian Jetbike Squadron @ 152 Pts
    Shuriken Cannon (x2)
I would go 2 squads of 3 and drop the cannons. The bikes are meant for linebreaker and late game objective grab. So you won't want them to have to shoot stuff, because with short ranges of the cannon, they will more than likely be in range of getting shot back. IMHO
5 Warp Spiders @ 110 Ptsr
Love these guys, reserve them and kill squishy targets :) what more to say? lol
5 Warp Spiders @ 110 Pts
   
1 Wraithlord @ 155 Pts
     2xFlamer, Bright Lance,Missile Launcher (x1)
These guys are tough, they usually do me proud with I play them, I love the set up you have, great Anti tank. Keep these guys, they are worth it :)
1 Wraithlord @ 155 Pts
     2xFlamer, Bright Lance,Missile Launcher (x1)
Over all I think the list is good, but you could make it a little more tough, which eldar are usually not good at, but this build is really resilient to most stuff.I hoped I at least gave you some good ideas on your list. Thanks for reading :)
Cheers :)

Please tell me what you think!

Cheers!

 


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