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Offline Calamity

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #120 on: May 9, 2015, 06:56:05 PM »
So, I have another draft of the Infantry Company to present now:

1 Company Command Squad
1 Commissar
3 Infantry Platoons

Formation Restrictions: The Commissar must be attached to a unit from within this formation.

Special Rules:

If this Formation is your Primary Detachment, you can re-roll the result when rolling on the Warlord Traits table in Codex: Astra Militarum.

Directed Firestorm: Nominate one enemy unit at the start of the shooting phase before any orders are issued.  If any unit from the formation makes a shooting attack against this unit after successfully receiving an order, it gains the Twin-Linked special rule.

Supporting Fire: If an enemy unit declares an assault against a unit from this formation, then any other unit from the same formation except for vehicles within 6'' of the unit being assaulted may make an Overwatch attack as if it was them being assaulted.  A unit may only make a single one of these attacks per shooting phase.

Designers Notes: I could have just given them Objective Secured, but it seems that no other formation in the game has that, and if they did have it then it would pull the carpet out from the under the feet of a combined arms detachment. :P

I know supporting fire isn't very original, but it does suit the formation very well imo.  Also, the Space Marine Company Apocalypse Formation also get this rule so there's some precedent. 

Directed Firestorm is just my version of what we discussed. 

How does this look?  Is it fair?  Useful?  Would anyone consider taking it?

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #121 on: May 9, 2015, 10:32:15 PM »
The Command Benefits are suitable and tempting.

The only "issue" I would have is how I would play it myself. I wouldn't want more than one Platoon to be Sit'n'Shoot, since that doesn't bode well in 7th edition missions. Objectives are placed before deployment "Type" is rolled for, much less which side you'll set up on. There's no practical way to ensure you'll have an objective in your deployment zone if you get an average of two objectives.

Sooo... working towards a style that I'm currently fond of: Cluster of Tanks, surrounded by meat shields.

185 - CCS + Chimera: Kurov's Aquila, 2x Plasma, Vox, Astropath

120 - PCS + Chimera: 2x Melta, Vox

120 - PCS + Chimera: 2x Melta, Vox

 30 - PCS: [Nothing, rides in Vendetta]

205 - 20 Infantry + Commie: 3x Power Axe, 2x Meltabombs, Vox, 2x Flamer

61 - 10 Infantry: Boltgun, Vox, Grenade Launcher

61 - 10 Infantry: Boltgun, Vox, Grenade Launcher

61 - 10 Infantry: Boltgun, Vox, Grenade Launcher

61 - 10 Infantry: Boltgun, Vox, Grenade Launcher

904 - Sub Total

170 - Vendetta

50 - Armoured Sentinel: Lascannon

50 - Armoured Sentinel: Lascannon

195 - LR Executioner: Lascannon, 2x Plasma Cannon

165 - LR Vanquisher: Lascannon, 2x Multi-Melta

630 - Sub Total 2

1534 - Grand Total


So... that infantry crew takes up a fair bit bigger chunk than I'd normally want. Unfortunately, because I want to be mobile, I can't take as large an advantage of the Twin-Linked ability as I'd want to. I couldn't feasibly do the formation any cheaper than 900 points, and to make it AWESOME I'd need to dump another 300 points or so into Sit'n'Shoot heavy Weapons. And more CCS to get more orders.

So I still feel that 3 Platoons is too much to be able to "do it right" and still have other stuff at 1500 points, which is still my go-to mental zone for list building.

The other trick to Formations, is that if I want to take a CAD to be able to take the rest of the goodies from Sub Total 2, I'd technically need to take another HQ and 2x Troops, which I didn't here. So my list is technically unbound.

Since formations don't count towards a CAD's requirments, it's too much points in my opinion to make a viable build without access to a cheap "Battle Tanks" formation and a "Fast Attack" formation. So unless the idea is to force a [completely uncompetitive] footslogging sit'n'shoot build, I don't think it would work on the table.

A good idea, if Sit'n'shoot was competitive. Needs work as it stands. A good place to start, I don't want to come off as overly negative here.

The codex still lacks CRUCIAL mobility factors, which isn't the fault of the formation, but it leaves my list sorely lacking against any of the current hotness lists.

If I may gently suggest, try making an army that contains your formation plus a CAD. That way, you can see how many points you'd sink into the formation, and then how much you'd have left over to fix the weaknesses of the formation. In the above, I wouldn't have enough points to still take a CAD in addition to the formation.

I think that would be the fastest way to see if a formation's size is practical.
« Last Edit: May 9, 2015, 10:44:04 PM by Spectral Arbor »

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #122 on: May 10, 2015, 09:55:41 AM »
So, I have another draft of the Infantry Company to present now:

1 Company Command Squad
1 Commissar
3 Infantry Platoons

Formation Restrictions: The Commissar must be attached to a unit from within this formation.

The special rules look good to me.

As for the formation, it is a fair bit of points. Why not make it 1-3 platoons with a requirement of an equal number of commissars for the platoons.
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Calamity

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #123 on: May 10, 2015, 08:29:03 PM »
Can Formations have variable sizes?  What if I trimmed it down to just 2 platoons?  That would knock a bit of the price.

And sorry to get distracted, but I have another formation idea:

Militarum Tempestus Assault Force

1 Militarum Tempestus Scion Platoon
1 Commissar
 
Formation Restrictions: 
The Platoon must consist of a Command Squad and 3 Scion squads.
The Commissar must be attached to a unit from within this formation.

Special Rules:

The Commissar has the Deep Strike and Infiltrate special rules (just like the rest of the units, as per our changes)

Supporting Fire

Special Operations:

You must chose one of these missions for the Assault Force (I'll work on the names):

Capture And Defend: Select one objective marker.  All units in the formation have the Objective Secured and Stubborn special rule when taking this marker.

Elimination: Select one enemy unit.  All shooting attacks made by units in the formation against this unit have the Preferred Enemy special rule.

There will be a third one hear once I can figure it out.  How does this look?

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #124 on: May 10, 2015, 10:59:04 PM »
Variable sizes are fine. Some formations are effectively alternate FOC's with different rules instead of ObSec. The Flesh Tearers Strike Force is effectively a CAD, less a couple Troop Choices, plus 3 FA slots. And you have one min HQ, Troop, and FA. You get Rage on a certain charge roll or better, instead of ObSec.

The Rules look ok. Maybe an option to take a Lord Commie. That way, his Ld Bubble could boost multiple squads, which would be quite useful for MSU. Further, as a unified group, you could add a rule that they roll for reserves as one unit, if they're in reserves.

Did you try making this Scion formation, plus a CAD? How many points go into 20 Scions with Guns and Stuff? Plus a Commie? How many points did you have left to build the rest of the army with? 500+ points of Scions is a tough swallow for most lists, so maybe you could create a sample list to see it in the light of?

Offline Calamity

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #125 on: May 12, 2015, 03:54:15 PM »
Variable sizes are fine. Some formations are effectively alternate FOC's with different rules instead of ObSec. The Flesh Tearers Strike Force is effectively a CAD, less a couple Troop Choices, plus 3 FA slots. And you have one min HQ, Troop, and FA. You get Rage on a certain charge roll or better, instead of ObSec.

That's pretty cool (I think...I don't know Marines so good).

Wait, that's it!  The infantry company!  I could leave it up to the player to decide what to put into it!  Think about it...an infantry company might be a fresh, newly raised one full of rookies, or one that's been in operation for years and is full of grizzled vets!

So with that being said...how about 1 Company Command Squad, 1 Commissar (must join one of the units), and 3 Troop choices.  So that's either platoons or Vets!  With an Astra Militarum warlord trait re-roll, Directed Firestorm and Supporting Fire?  Is that more workable?

The Rules look ok. Maybe an option to take a Lord Commie. That way, his Ld Bubble could boost multiple squads, which would be quite useful for MSU. Further, as a unified group, you could add a rule that they roll for reserves as one unit, if they're in reserves.

Did you try making this Scion formation, plus a CAD? How many points go into 20 Scions with Guns and Stuff? Plus a Commie? How many points did you have left to build the rest of the army with? 500+ points of Scions is a tough swallow for most lists, so maybe you could create a sample list to see it in the light of?

This is were it gets a little disheartening.  A CAD of 1 CCS, 1 Platoon and 1 Vet squad all bare bones came to 250pts.  Then the Scion Formation, bare bones, came to 320pts.  So that's 570pts just to get the models needed for it.  Realistically, with all the necessary upgrades, it's going to come to well over 1000pts.  Check out this list (using many of our changes) for example:

CCS
Commander with Kurov's Aquila, 4 vets (1 CCS, 1 Vox Caster, 1 lascannon, all with camo gear), MoO, Ootf, Astro (243pts)

Infantry Platoon:

PCS
Commnder, 4 guardsmen with 2 plasma guns and autocannon (70pts)

Infantry Squad
Sgt with boltgun, vox caster, 2 plasma guns (86pts)*

Heavy Weapon Squad
3 autocannons (75pts)*

* Combined

Infantry Squad
Sgt with boltgun, vox caster, 2 plasma guns (86pts)**

Heavy Weapon Squad
3 autocannons (75pts)**

** Combined

Veteran Squad
2 melta guns, 1 flamer
Chimera with multilaser, heavy flamer (150pts)

There's 785pts spent on a not too special CAD.

Now for the Scion Assault Force:

Commissar with power sword: 40pts

Scion command squad
Prime with power sword, platoon standard, vox caster, 2 melta guns: 135pts

Scion squad
5 scions, vox caster, 2 flamers: 85pts

Scion squad
5 scions, vox caster, 2 flamers: 85pts

5 scions, Scion squad, 2 flamers: 85pts

So that's 430pts for a basic 20 man, 3 squad assault force.  Altogether, the army is 1215pts.  What do you guys think?  :-\
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 03:55:16 PM by Skitarii Tangi »

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #126 on: May 12, 2015, 06:21:42 PM »
Personally, that's too much Scions. ;)

You almost have enough points for a couple tanks, but that would be it. Until you make boutique formations... Formations that you add to the core "Infantry Company" group, Decurion Style, taking a CAD on top of the Scion formation is going to be tough.

I think I like the idea of 1 CCS, 1 Platoon, and a couple other options as the "Core" formation would work if you're looking to go Decurion Style. If you were designing this to GW's ideals, you'd take some core choices, and then add whatever is new, and whatever is selling like amphetamine parrot.

Ogryns happen to hit both targets square on the head, I imagine, but so are Scions.

So 1x CCS, 1x Platoon, 1x Ogryns and 1x Scions would be a decent base, that includes things that are "new" [Scions] and things that sell like amphetamine parrot [Ogryns]. Add the command benefits you mentioned, and BOOM! Core formation is made. :)

EDIT: I forgot about the Hydra / Wyvern kit! Add one of those in, too!
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 07:43:58 PM by Spectral Arbor »

Offline Calamity

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #127 on: May 15, 2015, 07:47:37 PM »
If you replace the Wyverns with Hellhounds, that looks like the basis of some sort of 'assault company' or something.  Not a bad idea though, regardless of what we use.  :)

In the meantime, I'd like to post these revised rules for a new Al'Rahem:

WS:4 BS:4 S:3 T:3 W:3 I:3 A:3 LD:9

Unit Type: Infantry (character)

Wargear: Flak Armor, Plasma Pistol, Claw Of The Desert Tigers, Frag Grenades, Refractor Field.

Special Rules: Voice Of Command, Senior Officer, Scout, Desert Raider, Like The Wind.

Warlord Trait: Grand Strategy

Desert Raider: When rolling to determine how many units gain the Outflank special rule from his Grand Strategy Warlord Trait, the player may re-roll the dice.  In addition, all units in Al'Rahem's detachment have the Acute Senses special rule.

Like The Wind: All friendly units from Codex: Astra Militarum within 12'' of Al'Rahem have the Crusader special rule.

Claw Of The Desert Tigers: Range: Melee Strength: User Ap:3 Special Rules: Master Crafted, Rending.

How does that look?  Not too OP, or too UP, I hope?

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #128 on: May 16, 2015, 08:11:41 PM »
Well, rending on a Power Sword is pretty tame, although if you added Instant Death... you'd be talking.

I'll not abide anything less than being able to outflank an FOC slot. As in, a whole platoon. Plus himself. It's critical to my continued well being. And my ability to competitively play IG in 7th.

Outflank d3 FOC slots. :)

Offline Calamity

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #129 on: May 17, 2015, 09:01:24 PM »
Perhaps we could write a rule for the army to say that if one unit in a platoon gains outflank, then all units in the platoon gain it, but must deploy from the same board edge if doing so.  This would give you want you're looking for.  Platoons are supposed to function as a single entity anyway.

And I know the original sword had Instant Death, but I always felt that this was strange for some reason.

Oh, and I think it's time to post stats of Chenkov too:

WS:4 BS:4 S:3 T:3 W:3 I:3 A:3 LD:9

Unit Type: Infantry (Character)

Wargear: Caraprace Armour, Bolt Pistol, Power Sword, Frag Grenades, Refractor Field.

Warlord Trait: Draconian Discipline

Special Rules: Aura Of Discipline, Voice Of Command, Senior Officer, Stubborn, Send In The Next Wave

Send In The Next Wave (I think this needs a better name): If a unit of Conscripts in Chenkov's detachment is destroyed, immediately roll a D6.  On a roll of 5 or 6, another unit of Conscripts of equal size to the destroyed unit is immediately placed into Ongoing Reserves.  Any independent characters joined to the destroyed unit may not be returned in this manner.

How's this look?  It's built to encourage the player to take lots of conscripts across multiple platoons.  I think it's 'neater' than the old way of paying for it.  Also, even Chenkov can run out of reserves, which is what the random roll is about.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2015, 09:04:34 PM by Skitarii Tangi »

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #130 on: May 18, 2015, 12:24:10 AM »

I'll not abide anything less than being able to outflank an FOC slot. As in, a whole platoon. Plus himself. It's critical to my continued well being. And my ability to competitively play IG in 7th.

Outflank d3 FOC slots. :)

This could easily be done using formation. Then the special rules of outflanking is via the formation rule and not his own, and would allow for him to bring d3 support units with the platoon.
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Calamity

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #131 on: May 18, 2015, 07:14:36 PM »

I'll not abide anything less than being able to outflank an FOC slot. As in, a whole platoon. Plus himself. It's critical to my continued well being. And my ability to competitively play IG in 7th.

Outflank d3 FOC slots. :)

This could easily be done using formation. Then the special rules of outflanking is via the formation rule and not his own, and would allow for him to bring d3 support units with the platoon.


Would this be something like, Al'Rahem's Desert Tigers:

1 CCS (must include Al'Rahem)
2 Infantry Platoons

With all units in it having Acute Senses and Outflank?  So there's two outflanking platoons and company command squad all deploying together, with up to three other units also joining in on the Outflanking. 

Also I've been having a long hard think and I have come to the conclusion that Stormtrooper Squads need to start off at 55pts (65pts for the command squad), with further models in the unit costing 10pts.  They're still too expensive for what they are.  And that's even with our changes.
 


Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #132 on: May 20, 2015, 11:23:57 PM »
If it's a formation, and that's a great idea, I'd just say Captain Al and a Platoon. Keep it simples. I just want my Outflanking Platoon. I suppose, if it's a formation, we could just make it a Platoon, except you have to take a CCS instead of a PCS as the commander unit?

Just a thought. I don't need everything else to come along. More than one Platoon becomes cost-prohibitive. You can't afford anything else, and you're tabled turn 1 without models on the board.

For the love of the Emperor, Tangi, Quit making 2500 point formations! :D

[Not that a couple Platoons + CCS is 2k points... but keep it small. You still need to bring the rest of the force.]

Offline Calamity

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #133 on: May 22, 2015, 07:52:14 PM »
I think that part of the problem with potential IG formations are, they already kind of have them (in platoons) which makes them very expensive to do.

The only formations I can think of now that would work involve units like Pyskers (joint Primaris/Battle Squad unit), Ogyrns (Ogyrn Platoons) and Sentinels (Emperor's Talon Recon Companies).

For the Ogyrn one, I was thinking of 1-3 squads of them and a Platoon Command Squad.  At it's cheapest that's only 170pts (I think) so not prohibitively expensive.   And for rules, how about Ogyrns within the formation have Rampage and Crusader/Counterattack?  Maybe only if within 6'' of the Officer?


Offline Calamity

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #134 on: May 28, 2015, 08:18:31 PM »
Hey guys.  Probably like the rest of you I'm coming to the realization that most of our elite choices are simply too expensive to be considered competitive.  Namely, Scions and both kinds of Ogyrns.  Ogyrns especially.  Three Ogyrns for the price of a small platoon doesn't seem right.  I mean...they aren't that good right?  High toughness and lots of wounds nothing...it's low armor value and invulnerable saves that make tough units.  Especially when said unit is very cowardly and will fail their leadership tests a fair amount when tested. 

The same thing goes for Scions.  Fancy guns and better armor aside, they're still only human, and pretty much always get wiped out in one round of shooting.  Even with the extra rules we'd be giving them they'd still need to be cheap in order to be worth it.

So I came up with this:

Ogyrns now cost 20pts each, with their Bone Head costing 30pts.  So a minimum sized squad of three models would be 70pts whilst a maxed out unit of ten would be 210pts.

Bullgyrns will now cost 30pts each, with their Bone Head costing 40pts.  So a minimum sized squad of three would be 100pts whilst a maxed out one would be 310pts.

Scions are now 55pts for a normal squad (further models costing 10pts) whilst the command squad would be 65pts.  So now you could have a full sized platoon with good upgrades for around 450pts.  With deep striking, infiltrating and longer ranged guns as standard and the option to buy melta bombs for them, that's a powerful force.

How does this sound?  Is it balanced? 

The main idea behind the reduced price for the Scions is the fact that they will always be taking heavy casualties whatever you do to them and so you'll need a lot of them for them to be effective, whilst the Ogyrns problem is that they will require some sort of delivery system to be effective and that will only cost more points so, they need a discount to cover that.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 08:26:13 PM by Skitarii Tangi »

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #135 on: May 28, 2015, 10:39:09 PM »
I feel like Ogryns at 20 points would be a touch too cheap... so if GW is trying to push them, you'd be right on! Bullgryns at 30 points seem a touch expensive.

3 Ogryns, at 20 points, are filling the bullet sponge category better than an Infantry Squad. That's not bad, and I sadly don't think they'd be OP per se, but I think 25 points is probably in the ballpark for their abilities.

I think the real fix for Ogryns is to give them Carapace armour, leave their gun, give the Bone'ead a Power Fist option [I mean, REALLY!?! Who better?] and create a proper dedicated transport for them. An AV 12 /12 /10 "open topped" delivery barge. Make them 30 points base at that point, because the wounds and high T will keep them alive vs most PF type weapons. Let you carry 5 Og's with a Character... so capacity 16? Or maybe just make them Bulky again and keep a Chimera's capacity.

Open-topped would allow for some impressive drive-by shootings. And the whole assault thing, if you want to do that, too.

Now you've got a melee beast unit, sort of, which is what Ogryns should be!
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 10:40:16 PM by Spectral Arbor »

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #136 on: May 29, 2015, 03:25:16 PM »
I feel like Ogryns at 20 points would be a touch too cheap... so if GW is trying to push them, you'd be right on! Bullgryns at 30 points seem a touch expensive.

3 Ogryns, at 20 points, are filling the bullet sponge category better than an Infantry Squad. That's not bad, and I sadly don't think they'd be OP per se, but I think 25 points is probably in the ballpark for their abilities.

25pts was my initial idea too, but then I thought of trying to 'push it' to 20 in a sneaky and underhanded manner.  8)  But I think you're right.  25pts for basic Ogyrns, and 35 for their Bone Heads?  85pts is a pretty decent price for the unit, especially since you'll need a transport of some kind too.

Then 30pts for Bullgryns and 40pts for their Bone Heads?  100pts for the unit?  145pts if they replace their gauntlets with power mauls?

A powerfist for the Bonehead would be cool but I can actually picture that they would be too 'complicated' for the simpletons to use.  They would probably forget to turn the power field on...or off.  ;D  A Thunder Hammer though...essentiall y a better power maul...that might work!  Although maybe that's too sophisticated for them...

The reduced price also makes my formation idea even more viable.  You could have a formation of 1 PCS and 2 minimum sized squads for 200pts.  Ad in an extra Ogyrn to each unit (the biggest sized squad that can be crammed into a typical IG transport, including our Termite tunneling vehicles), and buy a vox, a standard, and two grenade launchers/flamers for the PCS and that comes up to 275pts.

Then, if you where to give them three of our new 'basic' Tauroxes (the ones that only have a storm bolter and cost only 35pts) this formation would cost 380pts.  That's not bad right?

Speaking of which, I was thinking of making all Bone Heads in that formation count as having vox casters.  So giving the PCS a vox would be worth it.

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #137 on: May 29, 2015, 06:49:05 PM »
I think 5 pts for the Bone'ead upgrade is enough.

The extra... offensive ability stat point... isn't that meaningful, nor is their Ld Benefit.

You're going from 'Po Ld to Poor Ld. When you're 'Po, you can't afford the extra letters. I know, I've been 'Po before. So I'd say 5 points would be good.

I'm pretty sure the Mechanicus could activate the Ogryn's PF before battle, and then he's just punching stuff. What could be more natural for an Ogryn? :)

I'd also like to get away from the Ogryn / Bullgryn split. Give basic Ogryns the standard loadout, and then give them the option to upgrade to Carapace for 5 points each, and the shield-wall for another 5 points... something like that. Maybe even 3 pts / upgrade. Just a thought.

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #138 on: May 29, 2015, 07:30:54 PM »
I think 5 pts for the Bone'ead upgrade is enough.

The extra... offensive ability stat point... isn't that meaningful, nor is their Ld Benefit.

You're going from 'Po Ld to Poor Ld. When you're 'Po, you can't afford the extra letters. I know, I've been 'Po before. So I'd say 5 points would be good.


Alrighty!  That all works for me!  :)

I'm pretty sure the Mechanicus could activate the Ogryn's PF before battle, and then he's just punching stuff. What could be more natural for an Ogryn? :)

That is true.  How about access to the Melee Weapons list for Bone Heads?

I'd also like to get away from the Ogryn / Bullgryn split. Give basic Ogryns the standard loadout, and then give them the option to upgrade to Carapace for 5 points each, and the shield-wall for another 5 points... something like that. Maybe even 3 pts / upgrade. Just a thought.

This is a good idea!  It should be pretty easy to do.  It's not like Ogyrns and Bullgyrns are that different really, unlike Nobz/Meganobz and Ruststalkers/Infiltrators.  And Bullgyrn is a silly name.  I'd write it out like this:

Wargear:
* Flak armour
* Ripper gun
* Frag grenades

Options:
* May include up to seven additional Ogyrns (25pts/model)
* The entire squad may replace their flak armour with carapace armour (5pts/model)
* Any model equipped with carapace armour may replace it's ripper gun with
- grenadier gauntlet and slabshield (free)
- power maul and brute shield (+15pts)

So, that's both units merged into one nice and neat option.  And 'Bullgyrns' have a variety of weapons available to them.  Plus, this makes that Ogyrn formation even better, as you're getting both kinds of units included in it nice and easily.   8)

This also frees up a slot for a new Elite unit two btw.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 07:32:22 PM by Skitarii Tangi »

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #139 on: May 30, 2015, 01:19:29 AM »
I guess they could have access to the melee weapons, though Swords and Lances would look... out of place... to me. Did you ever play Blood Bowl? There was an Ogre Character that had a big spike fist. I've always wanted an Ogryn with a power-spike-fist. :)

With your proposed build, I'd take...

Bone'Ead w/ Ripper and Power Fist, 3x Ogryn w/ Rippers, Carapace. Chimera for a Dedicated Transport.

That should cost about 205 points, which should be appropriate for what they can do. Add a couple Chimera Vets, and an Evil Mutt and you actually have a group that could fly forward into the face of danger without certain destruction, which is something that is currently lacking. A unit actually capable of resisting bully units, making a first turn flat-out move forward with the Chimera not suicide. Which helps with mobility, which makes Guard better in 7th edition. You're still sacrificing a turn of movement, but you'd do that with flyers, or jumping out of a reserved Drop Pod, so within the realms of reason.

Take a couple Russes for Fire Support, maybe a couple "Pairs" of Armoured Sentinels to tie up / provide support... get an HQ in there, add a bird or two... That's starting to ballpark at 1500 points. It would make that unit an Auto-Include for me... but I'd be THRILLED to have Ogryns be our Tomb Blades. I'll step up and say that I'd buy Ogryn kits if I could do that.

200 - CCS "Tooled Up" in Chimera
165 - Vets w/ Goodies in Chimera
165 - Vets w/ Goodies in Chimera
205 - Ogryn w/ Counter-Assault Gear in Chimera
145 - Evil Mutt
175 - Russ w/ Sponsons
175 - Russ w/ Sponsons
170 - Vendetta
  50 - Armoured Sent w/ Gun
  50 - Armoured Sent w/ Gun
[1500 points]

Very light on bodies... Hmmm... Dropping the Evil Mutt frees enough points to buy a small Platoon w/ cheap upgrades. PCS could ride in the 'Detta as an objective thief, while the other boys could screen tanks / sneak around to objectives. Vets could be made cheaper, I went heavy on upgrades with them. Russ estimates are a bit on the high side... and you could swap the CCS for a Command Tank Squadron instead, which might be better in this list. Going with a Cheaper CCS would also probably be better, I went heavy on upgrades with them, as well.

If I trimmed things down, I could likely afford the bodies that are missing. Anyhow, that's where I'd start, and then probably cheapen things down / cut a unit to put more bodies on the table. :)

 


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