Topic: Bretonnia or Skaven?

[DeathShadoww]

So im new to fantasy, ive done 40k got 2 armies eldar and SM. I want to know what everyone thinks is a better starting army Bretonnia or Skaven. I like both but dont know which would be more forgiving to a begginer

[Greg23]

I have both armies, so I would have to say Brets are a better beginner army.  The high armor of the Knights plus their ward saves makes the units very forgiving when mistakes happen.

Skaven is all about the raw numbers they field, so cash-wise $$$, it's a rough army for noobs to start off with.

But if you want sneaky stuff (assassins, "infiltrators", "deep-strike"ish abilities, poison attacks, etc) definitely go Skaven.

[Rasmus]

Skaven are a lot trickier to play well, and a lot less forgiving.
Brets are a bit more "hammer"-like, which allows you to slam into your enemies down and proceed. Not a lot can go wrong and not a long needs to be carefully planned.

[NecronCell2131]

Its true that brets have the nice hammer style with good armour but with the codex getting old its becoming harder and harder to compete with the latest issues such as dark elves, chaos,vamps, and skaven.

Skaven will have a nice playing style though as they say will take quite a while to field since most armies have 2-3 units of 20-30 slaves and then the regular clan rats, blah blah blah...

grab each codex and see which one you like better.

[Calus Drakin]

I have to agree that currently, with the aging of the Bretonnian army book, Skaven would be the better choice. Since the Skaven book just came out, plus starting Bretonnia right now would be rather moot since their army book will be out in probably around the next year or so.

I have to disagree with the level of forgiveness the Skaven army allows though. Having played both with and against them quite a bit, including with the new book. The cheap cost of their units means you'll generally have units to spare and when you lose one, you're not going to lose a boatload of points. And while it's true Bretonnian armies have the better armour and ward save, a handful of bad rolls can cost you a lot, especially if a cannonball or something rocks one of the knight units. I also tend to see Bretonnia as a One-trick army. Once you know your way around their lance formation, it's really pretty easy to tear them up.

[Greg23]

I agree that the Bretonnians are getting long in the tooth.  But Skaven is no easy walk in the park and not cheap on the wallet for noobs.

What get's me about Brets is that their best knights, Grail Knights, are an 0-1 rare choice.  They are good, no doubt, but other armies now have Knights that give Bret Grail Knights a run for their money.

IMHO, Saurus Cold One Cavalry, Dragon Princes, Flesh Hounds, Black Knights, and DE Cold One Knights pound for pound can match Bret Grail Knights. And they're special choices and not 0-1.  Grail Knights have the lance formation on these units, which is huge, but not much else.

[Rasmus]

IMHO, Saurus Cold One Cavalry, Dragon Princes, Flesh Hounds, Black Knights, and DE Cold One Knights pound for pound can match Bret Grail Knights. And they're special choices and not 0-1.  Grail Knights have the lance formation on these units, which is huge, but not much else.

As a High Elf cavalry-player I can tell you that while the Dragon Princes may be able to sort of match a single unit of Grail Knights point for point, it really doesn't matter too much, as the Knights of the Realm absolutely obliterate their support, and then mow them down like so much dragon-shaped grass.  The entire list-structure, special rules, lance and more, is a steamroller waiting to happen, compared to other cavalry-heavy lists. Add to that the unmatched support-capacity of the Pegasus-knights and you can overrun any cavalry-heavy list currently in the game.
They are, in a word, really tough.

[Spirit of Kurnous]

also dont forget grail knights all get a ward save which none of the mentioned knights do, and every grail knight can offer up a challenge meaning that even if you put an uber hero into combat with the unit he will kill a maximum of one knight per turn.

[Greg23]

The entire list-structure, special rules, lance and more, is a steamroller waiting to happen, compared to other cavalry-heavy lists. Add to that the unmatched support-capacity of the Pegasus-knights and you can overrun any cavalry-heavy list currently in the game.
They are, in a word, really tough.

True, it's the whole army composition that makes Brets so tough, not just Grail Knights.  Having heavy armored knights for all force org slots is amazing.  Still I believe there are two armies out there that can give Brets a run for their money in a cavalry vs cavalry battle, those two being Warriors of Chaos and Dark Elves.  And Daemons are just disgusting, no matter how you slice them.

Back to the main topic.  If you're  noob with gobs of cash to burn (like $800+ US), then the new Skaven book can give more force org builds than the current Bret book.  Clans Eschin, Moulder, Pestilens, Skryre, and Mors can be decently represented in the new army book, abeit with special characters fixing the force orgs.

With Storm of Chaos force orgs dead and buried for most leagues and tournies, Brets have the options of knight heavy, peasant heavy, or RAF.

[Awfully Dandy]

As a High Elf cavalry-player I can tell you that while the Dragon Princes may be able to sort of match a single unit of Grail Knights point for point, it really doesn't matter too much, as the Knights of the Realm absolutely obliterate their support, and then mow them down like so much dragon-shaped grass.  The entire list-structure, special rules, lance and more, is a steamroller waiting to happen, compared to other cavalry-heavy lists. Add to that the unmatched support-capacity of the Pegasus-knights and you can overrun any cavalry-heavy list currently in the game.
They are, in a word, really tough.

I will disagree that hey are really tough. IMHO the vast amounts of troops like DoC and VC who can withstand a charge causes the Brett impact charge to be diminished. However in compariosn to the empire and the orks however they are very formidable.