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The Armies of 40k => Chaos Armies (Marines and Daemons) => Topic started by: Lord of Winter and War on January 30, 2009, 08:09:31 PM
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So,I am slowly working on getting my Chaos Marines back to working condition. I have some general ideas on a list, but some parts are open to...Interpretation . Suggestions are helpful. Any ideas to make this sort of army work are encouraged. Spawn need to stay. I like spawn. Spawn are cool.
HQ
Now, For my HQ I have to use this model somewhere. (http://www.40konline.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=3217) as it is one of my main reasons of wanting play chaos. Plus, it's a dead sexy model. Obviously, it has no wings. I have a secondary Daemon-like model with wings I could use with it. I do want to try and use the Gift of chaos power (for obvious theme reasons), but I am hesitant to use such an expensive power. Also, I am pretty parial to the MoT. It seems like a good idea for a creature that will attract heavy fire and fits my Love of Tzeentch.
Or, I could use a Lord with a Jumppack and lighting claws to ride along with the spawn and then use the Forge World spawn as a greater deamon.
Eilites
I have nothing I want to use as Elites.
Troops.
Troops will be something like this.
Two units of ten marines. Both with powerfist Champ, Icons of Chaos Glory. One unit with Autocannon and the other with either duel meltaguns or flamers (undecided).
The Autocannon, I feel is the best bet as a heavy wepon for the chaos marine unit. I have a heavy bolter, or lascannon it could hold instead, but I feel Autocannons are a good 'jack of all trades' weapon. I am open to suggestions.
Plus, two units of eight lesser Daemons. I like lesser Daemons, as they are cheap. Good to hold objectives, cannot be shot at right away and I don't have any more chaos marines and want four troops. Some people hate them, I think they have their usess. I feel that with the large(ish) unit sizes, they could pull their weight in an assault with a unit of marines/spawn.
Fast Attack
12 spawn. This is down set and I am using this. This is the second reason why I would want to play with my Chaos models. Plus, I think that they will be unexpected enough to cause some good carnage. Coupled with a flying Lord/Daemon prince I think they could do some good damage.
Heavy Support.
I have three oblitorators I'll shove into one unit, plus I have a Defiler. The defiler, probably wont fit in the game at this points size. But it is another option. Oblitorators, I think will be very helpful in order to deal with walkers and tanks that may cause trouble for the spawn.
After some possible considerations and suggestions I will work on a 'real' list. So, yeah.
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That big scary thing would make a great GD. I think an HQ needs to have a more charismatic presence. The trick is to find suicide champs which don't show up in your list yet.
Autocannons are my favorite toy, so I support your cause. I just don't think 10 CSMs should ever get bogged down for 1 heavy weapon. This new codex really supports mobile CSMs, especially with the uber-grit package. A havoc squad that spews 4 Autocannons has usually worked well for me lately. Saved my butt recently against a gunline Tau that was ripping me apart until a brought a few fish down...
I like everything else.
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Greater Deamon it is. I guess that a flying Damonprince would be best then as a compulsory HQ, keep up with the spawn and keep them scary. I do see what you you mean with Sacrificial Champions, as the ones I have are pretty costly, what could I do to fix that? I used to use Havocs with Autocannons before, but when I sold off most of my models I got rid of the autocannons, so it is not very possible to add in a unit like that right now, though quad-autos are always fun. I might be able to find parts to slowly build up a unit of Auto Havocs. I am sure I have enough bitz lying around.
I have today while searching through my boxes of bits, found 8 pewter terminators and enough parts to convert a demoniacally possessed Land Raider. Might also have enough bitz for a Rhino or two as well..I don't really see the terminators fitting in, not with the expensive Spawn I have.
I also found some Meltagun and plasmagun parts, I could have both squads running duel flamers, duel meltas or duel plasmas.
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I was looking through your list again and came up with a neat idea. I imagined little mini-warbands of Spawn and CSMs that move around in clumps on the field. Like 4 clumps of 3 Spawn with 6-8 CMSs that slog around right behind them. Each unit of CSMs has one plasma or melta, a bare bones champ, and a IoCG. Cheap, expendable, but uterlly annoying for your opponent to deal with. GD and Lessers can come in that way on 4 different points on the board, and all 4 clumps are just constantly inching towards the enemy like a wall of zombies.
To compliment, you get a beefy Chosen unit with nice firepower, (autocannons, plasmas, what ever you want) and then put the good Champ with fist and maybe a combi-something. The Chosen can infiltrate on a nice point on the board and blast away from cover.
Hows that sounding?
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Two units of ten marines. Both with powerfist Champ, Icons of Chaos Glory. One unit with Autocannon and the other with either duel meltaguns or flamers (undecided).
The Autocannon, I feel is the best bet as a heavy wepon for the chaos marine unit. I have a heavy bolter, or lascannon it could hold instead, but I feel Autocannons are a good 'jack of all trades' weapon. I am open to suggestions.
To each his own I suppose, but like Dryad has already stated, CSM are best in an assault oriented go get 'em role. The autocannon is good, I just hope you get to shoot it enough to warrant its usage. However, I would say that if you must take an autocannon, I think you should fill out more troops options before making a static firebase. Havocs would make better use of this!
The Tide of Spawn!!! I have been waiting to see this being used, even without the Apoc rules, well, that is if there are any. I don't know. I always knock armylists with just 1-2 Spawn, but with 9, you bet you have my support!! It will definately confuse your opponent! Definately report your success/failure with them!
L.Daemons,.......meh. If they were ~2-3 pts cheaper then I would be for them. Also, at this point, you are only going to have 1 maybe 2 icons to summon them on, and one of those being the static Autocannon CSM unit........not so good as you want the L.Ds' to get into the thick of things ASAP, otherwise they get shot down pretty easily.
Goodluck!
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Yea, I recently used a 42 spawn list at 2000 points vs. Locke's gun line Tau.
It was fun, spawn were very random....5 dice to move, dice to see the attacks...
Anyway, the results will be like a rollercoaster, spawn did it all, die, make/fail cover saves, instant killed by railguns, die to small arms, Wipe out whole FW squads, Tie combats with firewarriors, lose combat to firewarriors, no retreat wounds...
CSM are ok.
Lesser daemons, eh, I only see them working at 10 man and 20 man squads.
I suggest you use your model as a DP, generally the speed from the 'wings' upgrade can be explained differently (ie, jump pack, remember daemonic speed, stuff like that)
I experimented with 2 different IC HQ options for lesserdaemon/spawn spam lsits.
Lord, biker, PI, and weapon is nice to hide and ride around delivering LD's
Sorc, MoS, Lash, mount, same speed of spawn, and can enhance charge distances for spawn (as it's always random).
My 7 Cents.
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I was looking through your list again and came up with a neat idea. I imagined little mini-warbands of Spawn and CSMs that move around in clumps on the field. Like 4 clumps of 3 Spawn with 6-8 CMSs that slog around right behind them. Each unit of CSMs has one plasma or melta, a bare bones champ, and a IoCG. Cheap, expendable, but uterlly annoying for your opponent to deal with. GD and Lessers can come in that way on 4 different points on the board, and all 4 clumps are just constantly inching towards the enemy like a wall of zombies.
To compliment, you get a beefy Chosen unit with nice firepower, (autocannons, plasmas, what ever you want) and then put the good Champ with fist and maybe a combi-something. The Chosen can infiltrate on a nice point on the board and blast away from cover.
Hows that sounding?
That actually doesn't sound like too bad of an idea. I still don't like the idea of champs being totally Nekked, so I'll need to at least throw power weapons on them, so be a bit of a combat threat. But, I like mobility and spamming targets. That would then give me like six troops, which would be good in objective games. Spawn are not very good at the whole 'capture' thing I feel. I'll need to find more models to make chosen with though, but I do like infiltration.
Two units of ten marines. Both with powerfist Champ, Icons of Chaos Glory. One unit with Autocannon and the other with either duel meltaguns or flamers (undecided).
The Autocannon, I feel is the best bet as a heavy wepon for the chaos marine unit. I have a heavy bolter, or lascannon it could hold instead, but I feel Autocannons are a good 'jack of all trades' weapon. I am open to suggestions.
To each his own I suppose, but like Dryad has already stated, CSM are best in an assault oriented go get 'em role. The autocannon is good, I just hope you get to shoot it enough to warrant its usage. However, I would say that if you must take an autocannon, I think you should fill out more troops options before making a static firebase. Havocs would make better use of this!
The Tide of Spawn!!! I have been waiting to see this being used, even without the Apoc rules, well, that is if there are any. I don't know. I always knock armylists with just 1-2 Spawn, but with 9, you bet you have my support!! It will definately confuse your opponent! Definately report your success/failure with them!
L.Daemons,.......meh. If they were ~2-3 pts cheaper then I would be for them. Also, at this point, you are only going to have 1 maybe 2 icons to summon them on, and one of those being the static Autocannon CSM unit........not so good as you want the L.Ds' to get into the thick of things ASAP, otherwise they get shot down pretty easily.
Well, The Lesser Daemons could come from either squad, though I do agree I should have more that can move about. I think lesser Daemons are a good deal for their cost. They are not 'OMG AP1 and S10', but they will be able to adequately hold objectives or add an extra punch to close combat. They are their as a support role, not to lead the show.
Also, not Nine Spawn. Twelve.
Yea, I recently used a 42 spawn list at 2000 points vs. Locke's gun line Tau.
It was fun, spawn were very random....5 dice to move, dice to see the attacks...
Anyway, the results will be like a rollercoaster, spawn did it all, die, make/fail cover saves, instant killed by railguns, die to small arms, Wipe out whole FW squads, Tie combats with firewarriors, lose combat to firewarriors, no retreat wounds...
CSM are ok.
Lesser daemons, eh, I only see them working at 10 man and 20 man squads.
I suggest you use your model as a DP, generally the speed from the 'wings' upgrade can be explained differently (ie, jump pack, remember daemonic speed, stuff like that)
I experimented with 2 different IC HQ options for lesserdaemon/spawn spam lsits.
Lord, biker, PI, and weapon is nice to hide and ride around delivering LD's
Sorc, MoS, Lash, mount, same speed of spawn, and can enhance charge distances for spawn (as it's always random).
My 7 Cents.
I think that 8 Lesser Daemons, is close enough to ten to make no difference. Also, I cannot with good concentrate give the monster 'flight' if it does not have wings. It is not the most agile looking beastie either. I don't really like any of the gods units, besides Tzeentch, so I am hesitant to use a Sorcerer with the Mark of Slaanesh and the Lash. Though, a Tzeentch Sorcerer with Jetpacks, pair of lighting claws and warptime could be quite a threat and the only statistical difference from a Lord would be a lower Weapon Skill, which is no big concern for me. I am out of town At the moment of posting this, but I will write up a list when I get back.
I quite like Dryads idea of the unit set up. I keep finding lots of bitz where I am (as out of town as my Model storage workshop-room). So I'll be able to have more resources to draw from when I get back. Might have to do lots of stripping though. I have found at least five more basic marines and a couple of sorcerer models plus an entire little container full of plasmagun parts.
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I quite like Dryads idea of the unit set up. I keep finding lots of bitz where I am (as out of town as my Model storage workshop-room). So I'll be able to have more resources to draw from when I get back. Might have to do lots of stripping though. I have found at least five more basic marines and a couple of sorcerer models plus an entire little container full of plasmagun parts.
Finding stuff rocks. I have tons of Chaos/weapons bitz too, just let me know if you have a wish list. I only ask for shipping cost compensation (I'm in Manitoba), I would be happy to help the "Chaos Mod" rebuild his army again ;)
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Ah no, I could not accept stuff from you. Thank you for the offer though.
I have made a list.
HQ
Greater Daemon
Deamon Prince with Wings
Troops
Chaos marines
x7
Ac w/pw
Plasmagun
IoCg
Chaos marines
x7
Ac w/pw
Plasmagun
IoCg
Chaos marines
x6
Ac w/pw
Meltagun
IoCg
Lesser Daemons
x7
Lesser Daemons
x7
Fast Attack
Spawn
X10
Heavy Support
Oblitorator Cult
x3
1499pts
11 Kill points
5 scoring units
I had to take out two spawn and a couple of lesser Daemons in order to fit in the Flying Daemon prince, but I needed a compulsory troops choice. The Prince will fly with the Spawn and help them out. The Chaos Marines, Lesser Daemons and Greater Deamon will support eachother. They will all follow the spawn and attempt to aid where the spawn have caused the most trouble, or to objective spam.Oblitorators will kill walkers and ordinance tanks as highest Priority and then other targets as they present themselves.
I think it should work relatively well.
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Its a decent list but the CSM squads are screaming for 10 men, 2 special weapons, and a Rhino to be most effective. Personally, I don' care where you get the points from, be it the LDs', Spawn, or simply (my preference) the loss of the G/Daemon.
Goodluck!
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I don't see much of a necessity for Rhinos, plus with the lack of any other vehicles I don't know how long they'd last. It was hard enough to shuffle around points for the Deamon Prince, I don't know how I'd fit in Rhinos and a few more marines without killing the theme I want to set for the army. Not that the suggestions are poor, I do like Rhinos, though I'd prefer to use them in a fully mechanize force, then just for a couple of units.
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That's a nice list. Totally different from the usual stuff, but it can be quiet effective.
This is just an idea but, I've noticed that you seem to like Tzeentch.
Tzeentch just happens to be the best way to create spawn, so perhaps you can consider to take a TS squad with GoC and the MoT and GoC for the DP.
To get the points I would drop the LD's and GD.
The GD is a nice model, but you have to sacrifice a valuable Champion for this.
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I actually did consider converting the marines to be Thousand Sons marine-things. Also, as much as I love GoC, since it needs to be used at the beginning of the turn I find it's far too finicky to use and very expensive to purchase. I did try to fit it in, but it wouldn't do.
Oh, I never explained why I didn't use the Thousand Sons. I don't remember, I may get them eventually but I would give the champ a power that would be of actual use, like Flames of Tzeentch Bolt of Tzeentch Bolt of Change or Doombolt. I don't really think that Thousand Sons should be really getting that close to their opponents if they can help it...Though, I could be wrong.
Also, I don't mind Sacrificing a champ, I find the whole notion of Demonic possession to be, quite Romantic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanticism#Related_terms).
I'll use the list tomorrow when I go to Vets night. I'll reply with how it fairs, or what changes I may, or may not make.
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Look a double post.
I played with this list tonight, Twice even. Amazing? Yes. I bet your all dying to figure out how it did.
Oh, I did make one change. I removed the 10th spawn to give the Daemon Prince Gift of Chaos. I though, as it would be a single unit of one would needlessly give away a kill point.
First game was against Blood Angles. Pitched Battle, four objectives. The table was desert with a giant spynix (with a neat tunnel inside) dominating the table, with a few hills and a couple piles of rocks.
His list had;
Dante, Lemataes, Massive flying Death Company, Massive jetpack Vetreans, two units of 10 marines in rhinos and two attack bikes.
I won the first turn and took it. Ha! Objectives were placed evenly around the sphinx, except for one which as to my far right flank on his side of the table on a hill.
I deployed on my left flank. I had the spawn deploy far left and forward, with the chaos marine units right behind. The oblitorators deployed on a hill very far to my left, almost as far forward as the spawn.
He split up one of his tactical squads, so he had five men with a plasmacannon on his objective on my right flank, while everything else set up hugging the spynix in the center of the table. Lemates with the Vets, Dante with the Death Company.
I go first, spawn surge toward his army and invade the sphinx. There is an objective neatly in the centre of the table, beside the sphinx and within 15" of my deploment zone. One squad of marines advances near that one, while still heading forward, while another objective is in the open, centre of the table to the left of the sphinx. I put a squad of marines on a hill about 8" down from that one, to accompany the oblitorators who move off the hill to snipe at his vets. Daemon prince hangs back, waiting for an opportunity.
In shooting, everything runs forward, the oblitorators fire three plasmacannons into the vets and kill five of them.
In his turn, his vets fly into the center of the sphinx with one of my spawn units, while the death company move into a position to do the same next turn. His bikes are in reserve. He moves both the rhinos with the Death Company, nearing my side of the table but sticking behind the spynix, lemates leaves the Vets and joins the Death Company. In shooting, his Plasma squad can only see my spawn and cause one wound. The vets fire at the same spawn unit and cause more wounds. In assault, the Vets murder the remaining spawn, but are left in the open.
In my second turn, Greater Daemon comes in and one lesser Daemons. Both pop out right near his vets in the sphinx. One spawn unit moves to the Vets, the other to a rhino. I move two of my Marine units into Rapid Fire range of his vets. The Daemon Prince, still loiters, wating for the Death Company to show up. I shoot the vets a lot and I only charge with the spawn (as I didn't know how close the death company were and wanted to charge them with the Daemons and not the other way). Other spawn charge the rhino. The Vets are all killed off (lots of attacks! yay!) and the Rhino spawn unit blows up the rhino, causing two wounds on their own unit and killing one Death Company.
His turn, The Death Company move to charge the Lesser Daemons and Greater Daemon (nutz) and Lemartes and Dante split off to charge a 7 man unit on their own. His 10man unit disembarks from their rhino and try to walk over the syphinx wall so they can shoot the spawn that killed the vets, but fail. The 5 man unit from the Rhino move into optimal spawn-flaming position. In shooting, Dante and Lemartes shoot a marine unit to 'nill effect, same with Death Company and Greater Daemon. His plasmacannon over heats, but is all good. Bikes fail to come in. Flamer and bolt pistols drops a spawn. In combat, he charges a spawn unit, Death Company double-charge the Daemons and Dante and Lemartes charge a marine unit. Spawn and Marine unit combat ends in a draw, Dante and Lamartes wipe out my marine unit, Lemates takes a power sword wound. Deathcompany wins the Daemon combat (damn lesser Daemons) But GD takes out four. With no retreat and wounds combined I loose all 7 lesser Damons and a single wound off the Greater Damon.
Now it's pay back time. My second lesser unit, fails to show. Daemon prince casts GoC on Dante, turning him into a spawn. while my remaining spawn unit moves to charge the death company. Shooting on my part is more-or-less minimal, but Lemartes dies. Dante-spawn then charges the marine unit that is fighting spawn, while I have other spawn charge Death Company.
Dante-spawn and spawn kill the 5 man marine unit, while the other spawn and GD kill off the rest of the Death Company. At this point, the game is as good as mine. He ends off with one model left and I control two of three objectives. Basically once I turned Dante into a spawn the game was mine (I was able to make one more spawn after that as well). The army seemed to work pretty well and the caustious use of the Daemon prince seemed to work as well.
The second game, was same mission but dawn of war deployment against orks. He had a 10 man biker nob squad with Warboss that charged me on the first turn, pretty much never recovered and that one unit killed my entire army. So, it was a pretty bummer game. I have no idea how to kill such a unit. Besides if you have a massive unit of thunderhammer/storm shield terminators...But thats for loyalists.
Overall, I butchered one guy and then got butchered myself. So overall, I am pretty impressed with the way the army turned out. It was also lots of fun to play, I'll need to have another go.
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So, All the units worked pretty well, Greater Damon, Daemon Prince, Oblitorators and spawn were the true heroes of the show. Lesser Daemons only showed up on the game against blood angels, I am sure that without them, the Death Company would have chewed through the Greater Daemon and caused lots of trouble, so then enababled it to survive and maim more Death Company latter, the other unit came one when I had already essentially beaten the guy, (turn 5).
First impressions with the Lesser Daemons, is pretty sour, though I am not going to fully judge them after just one game...But I think I may need to replace them with something a bit more serious later. I do like Deepstrike though, so perhaps a unit of terminators or something..Or infiltrating Chosen to out-flank. I would have just over 200pts to play with, so thats not too bad. Though, then I would be down on potential troops, which worries me. I like all the Scoring units I have, makes me happy inside. maybe I'll just bunch all the LD together in one 'uber squad of 14 dudes instead of two smaller.
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Good stuff, sounds alot like my Night Lords in battle. Utterly crush or be crushed, nothing really in the middle...
I think that the Spawn, with multiple units of CSMs supported by a few MC's is really the backbone and image if this army. You could easily lose the LD's and still maintain the flavour. I think the Blood Angels game is a better synopsis of how the army will function overall, cause a first tunm charge from a giant Nob Bike squad is not a really good way to figure out your army performance.
You got good tarpit, 2 MC's and lots of Spawn will hold up pretty much anything for a least a round or two. I love that you added Gift of Chaos into the mix, the fact that even more Spawn pop up is just golden. You also seem to have some decent anti-tank for the 1500 point zone, so I would not put too much thought into that either. I think 200 points would give you a nice Deepstriking Termy squad which really might go with the flow you got there. I would go HeavyFlamer instead of Reaper, you got lots of icons on the board, so having some Termies show up on target an clear some hordes might be a nice way to play them. My Termy squad is 210 points, but thats with a lightning claw champ and a few other goodies too.
I'm not sure Chosen would flow as well. Chosen work great for me, but I play a speedy mech/raptor style where having some meltaguns infiltrate ahead of the rush just tends to work out.
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yeah, I quite like the idea of the termies more than chosen. I have no real experiance either (have not used terminators since 3rd edition. I have re-built a few terminators to weild combo-plasmas and Ihave been in the process of converting one with heavy flames (I like fire).
What do you normally run with your termis? That points size would be perfect.
I agree the ork game is not a good basis for figuring it out. I feel I would do better against a more traditional ork force. I also am happy I took GoC. So much fun to spawn things.
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yeah, I quite like the idea of the termies more than chosen. I have no real experiance either (have not used terminators since 3rd edition. I have re-built a few terminators to weild combo-plasmas and Ihave been in the process of converting one with heavy flames (I like fire).
I run 5 man. One champ upgrade w/lightning claws. One guy is my tank buster with a chainfist in one hand and a combimelta in the other. One guy holds a Heavy Flamer. One guy holds the Banner of the Dominus Nox (well, in the codex they made a spelling mistake and called it the Icon of Slaanesh :P). and the last guy is just stock. Comes to 210 point.
They work good in a Land Raider, but usually not unitl about 1850. Otherwise, they DS from my Chosen, or one of the other 3 icons I have flying/driving around the board.
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I run a 5 man squad as well. Champ with claws and IoK, one with heavy flamer/chainfist, and 3 with power weapon/combi-plasma. Deepstrike plasma spam is sooooooo much fun! ;D They dont even see it coming :D. Sometimes I bump it up to a six man squad to get a 4th combi plasma in there. I've decimated squads of smurfs before when all 8 plasma shots hit home and the flamer roasted what was left. Its not too points heavy either, although I cant remember the cost at the moment. Your list looks like its a lot of fun to play and is refreshing to see. good work.
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I run 5 man. One champ upgrade w/lightning claws. One guy is my tank buster with a chainfist in one hand and a combimelta in the other. One guy holds a Heavy Flamer. One guy holds the Banner of the Dominus Nox (well, in the codex they made a spelling mistake and called it the Icon of Slaanesh :P). and the last guy is just stock. Comes to 210 point.
They work good in a Land Raider, but usually not unitl about 1850. Otherwise, they DS from my Chosen, or one of the other 3 icons I have flying/driving around the board.
Sounds good, Land Raider would be cool for larger games (I have one lying around in pieces..I couldn't find all of them but some Greenstuff can work well with chaos tanks). Deepstike is what I am looking for. I've not used Deepstrike too often in 5th edition, it is super fun.
I run a 5 man squad as well. Champ with claws and IoK, one with heavy flamer/chainfist, and 3 with power weapon/combi-plasma. Deepstrike plasma spam is sooooooo much fun! ;D They dont even see it coming :D. Sometimes I bump it up to a six man squad to get a 4th combi plasma in there. I've decimated squads of smurfs before when all 8 plasma shots hit home and the flamer roasted what was left. Its not too points heavy either, although I cant remember the cost at the moment. Your list looks like its a lot of fun to play and is refreshing to see. good work.
Sounds good, I am not sure what the numbers are, but Plasma is something I am looking for. Heavy flamer too. I have lots of projects I am working on, so I wont be able to get the squad done for my next gaming day on Thursday, but the week after is my reading week. Only thing going on for me is getting my wisdom teeth ripped out, so doing some modelling can always be fun afterwards.
Um...I only have 182 points by taking away the Lesser Daemons and I can't really take points from anything else. So, I can add a unit of four terminators with three combi-plasma, one heavy flamer and an icon of undivided and a chainfist. This runs at 165pts, leaving me with 17pts left. I was unaware how cheap that heavy Flamers are now, what a pleasant surprise. The extra points, is nothing to be exicted about, but I can use it to make all my marine squads 7 models strong, which is good.
My next gaming night, will have to be with the same army, but I'll make the terminators for the week after and see how they go. The Daemons still have time to excite me lol. At least now that I have 8 terminator bodies to work from, I can make a good selection to choose from.
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I'm glad to see that the more chaotic choices (spawn, GD's) and unconventional units (no 10 man CSM) seem to work.
A thread like this makes me think about including more fun and fluff choices into my army.
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So, I have played so far three games with the list, with two wins and one loss. Not too bad, I like the layout. Though I am thinking of adding in a defiler for ordinance fire support, but I have yet to decide what to take out to make room for it.
I have decided that the Lesser Daemons are essential to the list, even though they mostly always die, their deaths leave me open to great counter-charges most of the time or they hold up the enemies nastiest units for one crucial turn. There is nothing that I could replace them with, that would be able to effectively counter the same threats at their points cost.
The list seems to work together pretty well I feel, I like the symmetry of it. I feel that taking out any part will ruin the list as it stands.
Oh, Well I have made a small change from the original list, it now stands as such.
HQ
Greater Daemon
Deamon Prince with Wings and Gift of Chaos
Troops
Chaos marines
x7
Ac w/pw
Plasmagun
IoCg
Chaos marines
x7
Ac w/pw
Plasmagun
IoCg
Chaos marines
x6
Ac w/pw
Meltagun
IoCg
Lesser Daemons
x7
Lesser Daemons
x7
Fast Attack
Spawn
X9
Heavy Support
Oblitorator Cult
x3
1499pts
11 Kill points
5 scoring units
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Awesome to see some spawn-heavy lists! Kudos to you, looks like it would be a fun list to play and to play against.
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Fast Attack
Spawn
X9
That makes 3 units of 3 models right?
I want to know how this many of them is working out for you!? Are you getting 1st and 2nd turn assaults? What armies are you playing against with them? They are awesome against T3 armies such as IG and Eldar!
I love the Spawn models, much like Possessed, I just wish they had better stats:expense ratio.
Are you having much luck with the GoC DP?
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I really like your list as it is.
A defiler will break the army coherency. It's always a fire magnet and without any other big targets it want do much IMO. In my list with 4 other vehicles it's always the first thing to go down (my brother has had some real luck since I bought my defiler and destroyed him the last 3 games with one ML shot on his first turn).
The spawn can also use some attention from heavy weapons, but most players will go for the defiler I guess.
If you want to include one, dropping a CSM squad is the next best thing if you don't want to drop the LD's.
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Right, I want to keep all stuff for this army in one thread. I find it helps me.
I have bought some models and now I can have a vet squad of 8 with two flamers and pairs of lighting claws (cheaper then powerfists or single claws, and margionally more expensive then power weapons).
Unit comes to like 204pts with 8, which is quite a lot.
Well, here is my ideas for list and I'll need help figuring out what to do. And some reasoning behind what I did.
HQ
Deamon Prince with Wings, Mark of Tzeentch and Gift of Chaos-180pts
Deamon Prince with Wings, Mark of Tzeentch and Gift of Chaos-180pts
Elites
Chosen-186pts
x7 marines
x2 flamers
x2 pairs of lighting claws
Mocu
Troops
Chaos marines-160pts
x7
Ac w/pw
Plasmagun
IoCg
Chaos marines-160pts
x7
Ac w/pw
Plasmagun
IoCg
Chaos marines-155pts
x7
Ac w/pw
Meltagun
IoCg
Fast Attack
Spawn-240pts
X6
Heavy Support
Oblitorator Cult-225pts
x3
This leaves me 14pts under.
So I dropped the lesser Daemons (uesless to me I found) and the Greater Daemon. I added MoT and gift of chaos to both DPs (as MoT lets me use the power twice right? if so thats pretty yummy). Also I added a 7 man chosen unit. The chosen are there soely for the ability to out-flank which I think is very cool. Also the ability to threaten peoples further-back objectives I'll find very handy. All the changes I made though, are very expensive.
Some other possibilities.
1.Use the vet-models and use them to bolster my CSM units so all are 10men with double special weapons. This is instead of having the chosen unit. That'd be 175pts total for all of that, leaving me 25pts under.
2.Get rid of MoT on the princes as well as GoC. Maybe just give them Warp-time or Winds instead. Saves points.
3. I have a defiler. yay defiler?
4. Still have the Greater Daemon. Yay greater Daemon?
5. same with 14 lesser Daemons and 4 terminators (3 combi-plasma, 1 Heavy flamer and 1 chainfist)
Really at a stump on what to do.
I am adamant on keeping three separate CSM units, the duel princes (naked with wings minimum), 6 spawn and 3 oblitorators. With naked princes, and squads as they are above would leave me 286pts to spend on stuff. I do want to make use of the new marines I bought (about 5-6 basic marines are able to be rebuilt for any purpose). I do have extra marines lying around, so I am sure I can make at least two of the 7 man squads 10men. Special weapons I have quite a few of now. Not sure what to do.
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Dropping the Lesser Daemons is understandable, BUT THE GREATER DAEMON??? Are you even Killersquid? ;)
Dps are cool for max spawnage, but cookie cutter.
CSM look ok, but maybe one fist on the melty dudes would balance them out.
Spawn look ok, but don't forget it's 2 squads.
Oblits keep the list lethal as teh footsloggers get in optimal range.
I just think you need some speed to keep up with the DP's, as they need some company, not just bought spawn and made spawns...(to survive to reach there to sow havoc).
My 7 Cents.
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Yeah, dropping the DP is something I am not really too happy about. I kinda broke the model (again) so it needs to be fixed, thus an excuse to not include it now. Lesser Daemons I really like, but they are the easiest thing to drop for the points to upgrade the DP's and add the chosen (with the GD). If there is a way to fit them back in, I would go for it.
Getting to the opponent, or objectives is something I am very worried about, which is the reason for adding the chosen (infiltrate and such). But is it worth it? I could always use the vet models I made to convert them into Raptors instead, may be much cheaper points-wise or around the same amount.
In another town, I have a few vehicles that are unassembled I could use to make Rhinos with, but the chances of getting them anytime soon is doubtful. But is an option for later.
Daemon Princes are cookie-cutter, but they were before, and normally always would be. No way around that. I can at least use them to add to the theme, which is getting smaller lol. 9 spawn I would like to get back. What happened to them all?
I know it's two squads. I just list 'em all as one for convenience.
I am not too sure on the GoC on the princes, I at least want to try it out. It's 50 extra points on each prince over basic wings to add that, so if it doesn't work out I'll have easily enough points to sneak back in the GD. I feel like I am getting sucked into the "BUY EXPENSIVE STUFF" feeling.
I could also always just use the new chosen squad as just a 4th troops unit. Might save points. Powerfist on the Meltagun squad champ I'll try to fit in.
I feel like I am thinking into this too much. There is so much I want to do, but so little points :-\.