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Offline Baldar89

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1500 pts. Campaign lists
« on: February 2, 2013, 08:46:19 AM »
Hi everyone!

I'm a newbie to the 40k game, with only 4 battles on my back I wish can get some help from ork experts.
Here we are: I need a couple of lists for a 40k campaign I'm going to do with some friends, the armies of my friends are: Space wolves, Salamanders, Necron and Tyranids.

First battle for me will be aganist the Tyranids: the player is not a common one, he loves Hormagaunt, trigon and Termagant and I'm sure he will put them even if they are useless. (He loves alien movie XD )
I want to try a fast list aganist tyranids large numbers, so here it is:

HQ
Wazdakka Gunsmek

1 big mek
- Shokk attack gun
- kustom mega blasta
- 'eavy armor

ELITES
10x Nobz
- all bikers
- all with twin-linked shoota
- 2 Waaagh! banners
- 2 bosspole
- all cyborg
- 10xammo runt
- Doc + grot

10x lootas
10x lootas

TROOPS
20x Boyz
- 1 nob with power klaw and bosspole
- 2x rookit launcha

20x 'Ard boyz
- 1 'ard nob with bosspole
- 2x rookit launcha

FAST ATTACK
1 Dakkajet
- red paint
- fighta ace
- additional twin-linked supa shoota

For the Space wolves i will post soon (here) a list for them: I want to put some heavy guns (big gunz or the big mek) to kill his troops, around them a huge mob of boyz to protect them and the boss Zogwort to kill his Rune Priest (he will put dozen of them if he can for use the "fangs of the wolf" psychic power)
Is a good idea for start a 1500 list aganist the space wolves?

Thank you since now for suggestions, advice and critiques (forgive my horrible english...is not my language)
« Last Edit: February 2, 2013, 08:59:38 AM by Baldar89 »
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Offline SKEETERGOD

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Re: 1500 pts. Campaign lists
« Reply #1 on: February 2, 2013, 11:01:11 AM »
First, let me welcome you to the best ork forum on the whole www.  8) I invite you to join the Way of The Waagh. Just go to THIS LINK and post a reply that you would like to join.

I would say to drop Wazdakka and take a regular warboss on bike (with cybork, PK, and attack squig). Your nob bikers will still count as scoring (warboss makes one squad of nobs count as troops), and it will be a few points cheaper as well.

For the nob bikers, they don't need twin link shootas as the bikes come with twin link dakka guns, so a few points saved there. Maybe add in a PK or a few big choppas. Since all the dakka guns are twin link, drop the ammo grots as you can't reroll a reroll.

For the big mek, unless you have the actual model drop the shock attack gun and instead take a boss pole and put him with one of the loota boy squads, as they can't take any upgrade to give them any LD assistance. If you do have the shock attack gun model then drop the KMB as you can only shoot one or the other and the KMB is almost as dangerous to the big mek as the SAG.

For the boys, you didn't mention their loadout, so I highly recommend you take shoota boys. Same points more shooting. I would also recommend that you drop the "ard" from the ard boys and make them regular boys, use the leftover points to maybe get them some transportation: like a battle wagon, or add more more boys, or use the points to add more big choppas to the biker nobs.

As for the jet... I don't have much luck with mine, it comes in, shoots something and dies. I hope you can figure out a way to use it better than I do. Maybe someone else on this forum can give you some good advice on the jet

Hope that helps, my two teef
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Offline Ork E Nuff

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Re: 1500 pts. Campaign lists
« Reply #2 on: February 2, 2013, 11:25:17 AM »
Welcome to the Green Tide! 

Looking at your list and thinking along the lines of your wanting a "fast" list, I would recommend the following:

Like SKEETERGOD said, swap out your character for a regular WB.
Ditto with the recommendations on the nob bikers
Drop a unit of lootas, change them to burnas; same points, template weapons, attach them to the mek.
Divide your 20 ork units into 2 tens, bump up to 12 each (this will include your nobs). 
Drop the 'ard boyz all together, they are better at being foot sloggers, not fast.  Use the points for trucks for your boyz.  Now they are fast as well.
I'm ambivelent about the dakka jet.  I don't have one, hence I've never used one.  But from the forum readings, it's a 50/50 shot at doing its job.  I would switch it for a burna bomba, better chance of eliminating those large pesky tyranid units.

That's my two teef...Good luck and post a great battle rep and pictures!
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Offline OD from TV

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Re: 1500 pts. Campaign lists
« Reply #3 on: February 2, 2013, 02:46:59 PM »
Welcome to the party Baldar89, there may not be cookies but we got squig pies and fungus brew!

Your list is certainly interesting, and totally capable of being bumped up a notch to take on those Nids, so let's get to it...

Waz is really the only Special Character HQ I like, nevertheless I don't think he's a good choice without a serious overhaul to the list.  His main power is allowing you to bring standard Warbike mobs as Troops, which your list is lacking, and while his Dakkacannon is great for instakilling the little bugs and knocking wounds off Monstrous Creatures, the better bet is a BikerBoss which is typically 30 points cheaper even when you kit him out.  A standard Biker Boss also has other advantages over Waz such as higher Str, option to have an additional attack than Waz, can get the Cybork Invul save, and has the option of taking a Big Choppa which would allow you to attack with his higher than average Initiative (which with the exception of Genestealers, Lictors and Nid Special Creatures is higher than Nid Ini).

Skeetergod mentioned the Big Mek a little bit, but I personally differ on him with the idea of a SAG attached to a Loota Squad.  Yes Lootas would benefit from a Bosspole, but the negatives are that the SAG would have to target the same unit, and on the dreaded double 1 it's almost guaranteed to take out a large chunk if not the entire Loota unit.  When I play with the SAG I like to have him accompany a unit of 19 Grots (at 19 you only need 1 Herda).

Grots are cheap ablative wounds for the Mek, especially when you have the unit in terrain that gives both wide Line of Sight to the battlefield and a decent Cover Save, not to mention in late game they can run off to guard homefield objectives or even detatch from the Big Mek to assault an enemy MC that's gotten too close.  Grots verses MCs are surprisingly great, not because they can kill one, but they can tie one up for multiple turns, sacrifice 1-3 to stay in the fight, and multiple Herdas really enhance this ability by knocking off attacks with a Grabba Stick.

Also look closely at the wording on page 97 on the Big Mek's options, he can't take both a SAG and a KMB, it's one or the other, and against Nids I would strongly advice the SAG, which has a statistical average of 7 (even though it usually doesn't feel like it).

The Nob Bikers... well take Skeetergod's advice and drop the Shootas and Ammo Runts, maybe even drop one of the banners.  I can see where your were going, it's good to have a backup in case the Banner carrier gets Precision Shot to death, but it's cost at being 2.5 Boyz is a bit too steep to bother taking two, at least in my opinion.  Like Skeetergod said (but I feel it needs repeating) this squad really needs some Pks, I'd say 3 max, but that's just me.

One thing to consider is just how point heavy a full squad of Nob Bikers is, almost a third of your army list.  That's a huge percentage that will be really difficult for them to earn back.  Certainly not impossible, but there's a reason why I'm not a fan of "Deathstar" units.  I can easily see someone who isn't very experienced (no offense is intended by the way, we were all newbies at some point!) bringing a 10man of Nob Bikers for the exact reason that they would start out in the 550 point range before the trimings of extra weapons, and that squad lets me play larger games without too many extra models.  (Heck when I started out I was planing the same basic thing with not one but 2 10man squads of Wraithguard, what held me back was the pricetag)

Some people swear by the Deathstar unit style of play, I'm not one of them, and personally I think it's the antithesis of the Ork gameplay style of multiple redundancy.  In simplest terms what I'm saying is a backup to the backup plan (and maybe a third Plan B on top for gravy).  You want to be flexible, and be able to handle setbacks such as a unit or two dying without it seriously hampering the strategy.  And with Orks the general strategy is shoot, stomp, move on.  Of course that's just my take on it.

Two 20 mobz of Boyz seems really light.  Like a spoonful of beer in a large glass of water and being called a 'light beer' light.  It's not that 20 mobz don't work, it's just I've never seen them work when they're not in Wagons or backed up by 2-4 more units of 20.  Of course that's been my experience, and experience is the best teacher.  Anyway the Eavy Armor is generally a waste, there's a lot that can still bypass the armor and it is generally cost prohibitive.  I think it's great on Nobz leading a squad but even then it's debatable.  Similarly to Skeetergod I hope these Boyz are of the Shoota variety, which I believe have finally risen up to end the Shoota v. Slugga debate. 

You mention in the end of your post that you're going to write another list with Heavy Guns and huge mobz, and at this I really must make a suggestion.  Instead of it being a completely different list, smash that in with this list.  Artillery rules are Boffo, and the Kannon itself is the single greatest Anti-Nid weapon in the Ork arsenal (can reliably take out blobs of the little critters, knock off wounds from MCs, and can access cheap rerolls for when you need it).  The list itself can open itself up a bit for additional units, and overall that would compliment it greatly.

Peace
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Offline Baldar89

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Re: 1500 pts. Campaign lists
« Reply #4 on: February 3, 2013, 05:16:22 AM »
Really thanks to everyone for help me: it's a pleasure see someone who instead to say "Put this one, drop this one and move that here" (such is the normal in 40k world) says WHY I should choose a model instead of another one! Is a great thing and I'm glad to found this forum!

Anyway here it is a new list (following yours instructions)

HQ:
Warboss
- warbike
- cyborg
- big choppa

Big mek
- cyborg
- bosspole
- SAG
- 'eavy armor

Elites:
10x lootas

Troops:
12x Boyz
- nob + bosspole + big choppa
12x Boyz
- nob + bosspole + big choppa
12x Boyz
- nob + bosspole + big choppa

16x gretchin + 1 runtherd

3x trukk
- red paint
- grot riggers
- armor plates

Fast attack:
20x warbikers
- nob + bosspole + big choppa

Heavy:
3x big gunz
- 3x kannon
- 3x ammo runt

1x big gunz
- zzap gun
- 6x grot

QUESTIONS:
a) As OD say: Trukks make Orks moving faster...but aren't they a little easy to blow up? (like all Orks veichles)
b) If before two 20 mobz of Boyz seems really light, now is even worse

------1500 pts. list vs Space wolves and Salamanders
HQ:
Old Zogwort

Big mek
- SAG
- cyborg
- bosspole
- 'eavy armor

Elites:
10x lootas
10x lootas

Troops:
30x Boyz
- nob+bosspole+big choppa
- 3x big shoota
30x Boyz
- nob+bosspole+big choppa
- 3x big shoota
30x Boyz
- nob+bosspole+big choppa
- 3x big shoota
30x Boyz
- nob+bosspole+big choppa
- 3x big shoota

16x gretchin + 1 runtherd

Heavy:
3x big gunz
- 3x kannon
- 3x ammo runt

1x big gunz
- zzap gun
- 6x grot

For this one I've put all the efforts in a huge, green mob meanwhile big gunz, lootas and the big mek do an heavy fire work from the back. The problem is if him drop with drop pods on my side or using scouts...maybe leave a little mob behind to protect others?
This one may work even for others campain missions like take/defend some objectives?
Zogwort is here only to "squig-form" his leader and the rune priest.
What do you think about it?
"Remember Elan: It dosen't matter if you lose or win, as long as you look really cool doing it!"

Offline CheesyRobMan

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Re: 1500 pts. Campaign lists
« Reply #5 on: February 3, 2013, 06:52:59 AM »
Hi and welcome  :)   in answer to your first question, yes, trukks are relatively fragile. However there are benefits that offset this problem:
1) Trukks are cheap! You can take lots of them to get your boyz closer to the enemy. If you do have a good number of trukks, it doesn't matter too much if one or two get blown up before they get there.
2) Putting a kustom force field on your Big Mek instead of a SAG would give them an extra bit of protection.
3) Trukks are fast, which means that you can drive behind terrain/buildings to stop the enemy firing at you better than most other vehicles can.
4) If a trukk gets blown up, there's a lesser chance of the passengers dying because of the special rules - you might even get a movement bonus out of it!

You have also correctly seen that mobs of Orks in trukks are smaller - however again, there are ways to get around this. Don't pick a fair fight - mob an enemy unit with two or three trukk-loads of Orks at once. You might also be able to charge multiple enemy units, if it suits, and stop those units from firing at you. Also remember that you don't have to get out of the trukk - they are open-topped vehicles which means every passenger can shoot from the vehicle without disembarking. I believe Skeetergod likes this tactic a lot, talk to him about how to use it  :)
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Offline SKEETERGOD

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Re: 1500 pts. Campaign lists
« Reply #6 on: February 3, 2013, 11:37:42 AM »
I really like your first list, and I would like to recommend a few changes.

On the trucks: The grot riggers and armor plates won't help the trucks survive, and are pretty much a waste of points. Instead I recommend Red Paint and reinforced rams. The red paint gives you that extra movement, and really comes in handy, you can move 13" during the movement and another 13" during the shooting phase (flat out) allowing you to basically cross the board on the first turn. With the new edition the penalty for going flat out has disappeared, so use it if you want. The ram allows you to go through difficult terrain instead of around it. I have rarely rolled two ones in a row, so getting stuck in terrain is not that much of a factor, plus it helps to give your trucks a cover save if you can hide behind large rocks and inside buildings.

Make at least one of those squads in a truck shoota boys. Their job will be to go for the trapped result on your opponent. While it doesn't work work too well on fearless  units, but if you use your bikers to shoot a squad, and then your shoota boys to shoot some more, there won't be too much left to assault. The shoota boys are really good at getting genestealers off your back as the AP of the shoota negates the stealers armor. Come to think of it, make at least two squads shoota boys, as you really don't want to get too much into CC with most things nid.

For your bikers: first; check your codex, I don't think you can take 20 bikers in one squad. However if you want 20 bikers I suggest you divide them into two squads of 10. Have one squad led by the biker boss, and the other squad led by the nob. One thing to keep in mind is that they are regular boys on a bike, so use them as mobile fire support. They have a 30" threat range with their shooting, and twin linked goodness will help soften up anything your truck boys will want to assault. If you do choose to get your biker boys into a fight use them as the secondary unit, never charge them in by themselves as they will get killed off fairly quick.

For the lootas, since you are only taking 10, why not give them a looted wagon as a transport? No need to give it fancy upgrades as it is only movable cover for the lootas. You could drop the single big gun to get the points for it. This way your opponent has to kill the vehicle before he can assault your lootas, who really don't do well in combat.

As for your second list; the green tide is hard to defeat. I have a similar list, only instead of two units of lootas I have one, and a unit of 15 tank bustas that are really good at getting rid of all things armor. Not to mention that they are really good at insta killing most space marine heroes, and the nob can select special weapon troopers if/when he rolls a six to hit. The AP is really good at killing most everything marine.

I wouldn't worry about drop pods and scout units, as they are just coming to you. If a squad of 10 marines drops within charge range of a unit of 30 orks, they are just plain dead marines. Sure you may have to go backwards for a turn, but your opponent loses a big chunk of his army that turn.

Make sure to make at least two units of shoota boys. The volume of fire can really wipe out a lot of stuff, and there is so much shooting that they can even cause serious damage to terminator units. When you wound 15 times, you are sure to get a few ones that your opponent will roll and so goes his point sink unit to ork shooting.

Maybe drop one kannon, to get the points to give the nobs in the two combat units power klaws. If you get stuck in combat with a dreadnought or some other armored beast they will be your only chance to kill it.

Other than that, it looks like a great green tide, you will have fun with it.

Hope that helps.


"It needs but one foe to breed a war. And even those who have not swords can still die upon them" (Lady Eowyn)
     We orks are not about being the hero; We orks are about being the mob.
                         
Quote from: angel of death 007
Skeetergod: (adj) A crazy fascination for all things combustible mixed with an unhealty lust for red paint. see also Speed Freak

Offline Baldar89

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Re: 1500 pts. Campaign lists
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2013, 10:41:55 AM »
According with yours suggestions here the two final lists:

1500 pts. vs all kind of enemy
HQ
Warboss
- Bikers
- Cyborg
- big choppa

Big mek
- SAG
- cyborg
- bosspole
- 'eavy armor

ELITE
10 Lootas
- 3 meks

TROOPS
12x Shoota boyz
- Nob + bosspole + big choppa

12x Boyz
- Nob + bosspole + big choppa

12x Boyz
- Nob + bosspole + big choppa

16x gretchin
- 1 runtherd

trukk
- red paint
- reinforced ram

trukk
- reinforced ram

FAST
10 Warbikers

HEAVY
Big gunz
- 3x kannon
- 3x ammo runts

Big gunz
- zzap gun
- 6x grot
- 3x ammo runts

looted wagon
- red paint
- boomgun
- big shoota
- rookit launcha

battlewagon
- deff rolla
- wrecking ball
- red paint
- killkannon
- zzap gun

Lootas in the battlewagon role: "Shut up and firee!!"
Shoota boyz in the red painted trukk, the others in the trukk and in the battlewagon.
The bikers with the boss.

1500 pts. vs Space wolves
HQ
Old Zogwort

Big mek
- SAG
- cyborg
- bosspole
- 'eavy armor

ELITE
10 lootas
- 3 meks

15 tankbuters
- How many tankhammers?

TROOPS
30 shoota Boyz
- nob + bosspole + 'eavy armor
- 3x big shoota

30 shoota Boyz
- nob + bosspole + 'eavy armor
- 3x rookit launcha

30 Boyz
- nob + bosspole + 'eavy armor
30  Boyz
- nob + bosspole + 'eavy armor

16 gretchin
- 1 runtherd

HEAVY
Big gunz
- 3x kannon
- 3x ammo runts

Big gunz
- zzap gun
- 6x grot
- 3x ammo runts
"Remember Elan: It dosen't matter if you lose or win, as long as you look really cool doing it!"

Offline SKEETERGOD

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Re: 1500 pts. Campaign lists
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2013, 03:04:42 PM »
I like both lists, you will have to tell us how you do with them.

As for your question about tankbustas and hammers, only give the nob the hammer, as he will need it if/when you get forgetful and get into combat with a dreadnought. The tankbusta grenades are better than than even space marine grenades for taking out armor (read the codex closely) and you will see that you don't need the hammer except for the accidental CC with a non vehicle.

My two teef
"It needs but one foe to breed a war. And even those who have not swords can still die upon them" (Lady Eowyn)
     We orks are not about being the hero; We orks are about being the mob.
                         
Quote from: angel of death 007
Skeetergod: (adj) A crazy fascination for all things combustible mixed with an unhealty lust for red paint. see also Speed Freak

 


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