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Author Topic: Does anyone else wish forge world made the rules for triarch praetorians?  (Read 2132 times)

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Offline Herm_777

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Don't know if anyone has seen the experimental rules for the new necron unit produced by forge world.

 Forge World - NECRON CANOPTEK ACANTHRITES

Kind of hard to believe why Praetorians were even included in codex.  :-\

Maybe if the rules become official we can use the praetorian models instead.   

Offline Partninja

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Praetorians? These would compete with wraiths. Rather different units as well so I see no competition.

Offline Herm_777

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Really? No competition?

While I certainly see how these Acanthrites share similar qualities with wraiths, I feel that they have far more features in common with Praetorian.

Here is my case:

1) The Guns:
The default Praetorian weapon layout includes a gun called the rod of the covenant. While the gun is also a power weapon it's "unwieldy" nature means that if your selecting this armament for the Praetorian, chances are you are doing so for the guns stats as more effective power weapons can found in the hands of the Lych Guard for around the same cost.
The rod of covenant has the power of a heavy bolter and can chew through terminator armor with its AP rating. seems decent, but the gun only gets minimal shots and has a terrible range of X inches.

In contrast to this, Acanthrites get a gun called a "cutting beam." Superior to rod of the covenant in every way minus the power weapon feature, the cutting beam has a X inch range, can still penetrate terminator armor, has a higher strength then the rod of the covenant, and is a melta weapon. As a result, the cutting beam not only kills heavy armored infantry just like the rod of the covenant, it's more likely to wound, can do it from a farther distance, and is far more threatening to vehicles due to the melta rules.

Wraiths have no equivalent weapon
 
Acanthrites: 1
Praetorians:0
Wraiths: not even in the game 


2) Melee Weapon
Having already discussed why the rod's power weapon feature is not that effective compared to other choices, lets move onto Praetorian that have been built for combat by being equipped with a void blade and a particle caster. Praetorians armed in this fashion get more attacks by being armed with a pistol and close combat weapon.

Acanthrites not only get void blades as standard equipment but also have more base attacks as stated in their profile, this means that Arcanthrites enjoy the same number attacks as a Praetorian while also using the void blade. While Praetorian have more strength then Acanthrites, Arcanthrites still win in my mind because they get to keep their cutting beam. This means that Acanthrites can shoot just as far as the praetorian particle caster, with the same strength, but with the additional bonus of killing terminators and the melta rule. As a result, if Acanthrites get to shoot before assaulting their targets, they will likely kill more models with 4+ armor saves than Praetorian will. (plus they are way better at killing vehicles)

Comparing these traits to wraiths, I think you'll see a difference in target preference. Wraiths are 2x as strong as guardsmen and have more attacks base. While void blades and the phase attacks of the wraith both benefit from the rending special rule, the difference in strength and toughness between the Acanthrites and the wraiths means that they will be going after different targets. Wraiths excel at killing horde units with low armor saves. While Wraiths can be successful against heavily armored units, anything with a power fist can kill a wraith outright because its lower toughness. Not so with the Acanthrites, their toughness after better guns means that this unit has the potential of doing more damage against heavily armed and armored enemy units.

So after checking the score the amount in question appears to be

Acanthrites: 2
Praetorian: 0
Wraiths: can't kill vehicles, and armored units like Acanthrites can, but can murder everything else much more efficiently.

3. Toughness
While Praetorian have reanimation protocols and  the same toughness as Acanthrites. For the sake of time I'll just ask what you would rather have, more wounds, or less plus reanimation protocols. If your not much of a gambler (I include myself in that mix ) then you probably have selected more base wounds because this element is a static guarantee unlike the reanimation protocol which is left to chance. Sure you can get a res orb in the squad, but the cost of the orb plus the fixed cost of getting a figure who can take an orb leaves much to be desired unless this was your original strategy anyways. (and lets be honest, would rather your destroyer lord hang out with the Praetorian or the wraiths?)

Checking the score again

Acanthrites 3
Praetorian: 0
Wraiths: probably a toss up. can't handle lascannon shots like Acanthrites can, but do get a chance to save with their invulnerable.

4: Jump Infantry
all three units have it

scores remain the same

5. Stealth
 
only Acanthrites have stealth. This means that they have an guaranteed invulnerable save at specific ranges. While it's not the Wraith's invulnerable save, It does mean that the Acanthrites can shrug off long distance heavy weapons. Praetorians need a cover for this or need a reanimation protocol save.

Score: Im not keeping track anymore, it should be clear how Acanthrites are much better than Praetorian.

6.) Cost

Sure, Acanthrites cost a few points more, but the extra wounds, cutting beam, and stealth should more than make up for this.


So there are my two cents. Hopefully I have articulated why Acanthrites have more in common with Praetorians then wraiths and why Acanthrites are just plain better than Praetorian. :P
     
             
     
[mod]Post edited for copyright infringement. While you did try, please try a little harder not to post exact stats.[/mod] 


 
« Last Edit: August 13, 2012, 06:51:49 PM by Kaiju Senso »

Offline Partninja

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You didn't really need to reargue your point. Clearly the FW unit is better (assuming your LGS allows FW units) than the other two. However, Wraiths are generally a better assault unit than Praetorians. So then you are left to compare Wraiths to the Acans. Then depending on the amount of points you have available, and the rules your LGS uses this is where the competition between these two FA choices comes into play.

The key thing for Wraiths is the access to the whip coils, which is what makes the unit in my experience. Also the fact that they are a jump infantry unit that ignores terrain makes them very mobile. Lack of stealth means nothing to me as their invulnerable save has far less things that ignore it than things that ignore cover saves. And given normal terrain types, the cover save would be the same as (or worse in a lot of cases) than the Wraiths invulnerable.

Protocols means nothing when a squad of 5 Praetorians can so easily be wiped out, and thus not be able to get back up. This is why I never liked the idea of sticking the D-lord with them (or even Destroyers) anyway.

Offline Buttman

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All herm is saying is that praetorians share similarities and he is dissapointed at how poorly they play on the field especially when they look so good. If forgeworld can make rules like that why didn't ward. To be honest I think the forgeworld rules for these are a bit undercosted but I can appreciate why necron players would be frustrated your best looking models are some of the.least reliable. I play dark eldar so I feel your pain (mandrakes)

Offline Herm_777

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I agree with buttman. The Acanthrites are probably undercosted for being a relatively adaptable unit with an emphasis on killing vehicles and heavyily armored troops (that or praetorians or overcosted :) ). Its a shame really, as I'm very partial to the Praetorian fluff and their independence from tomb worlds.

 As for comparing Acanthrites to wraiths... Again, I'm not sure why this comparison is even apropriate. Wraiths in my opnion are just plain different than Acanthrites. They are better at killing different units in different situations. To use some common house hold items as an example, I wouldn't use a can opener to dice tomatoes, or a kitchen knife to open up my cans (guess which unit represents which household item). If I was then something has gone horribly wrong and I'm either trying to compensate for a lack of resources or I haven't planned for my needs very well... Just because two items share a few traits in mind doesn't mean their equivilent. To use my previous example of a can opener and a kitchen knife, I think that its fair to say that just because both tools are generally made of metal/plastic, are commonly found in the kitchen, and almost always have "handles" doesn't mean these items do the same thing...

In short, I like kitchen knives and I like can openers. If I choosen one over the other its because I've a different need or goal in mind. 

There, I've made my point as clearly as I can. Hopefully I've managed convince everyone what my orginal intentions were. If not, then I highly recommend that if anyone has any lingering questions to attempt an experiment at home with the aforementioned household items in the situations I've described....         

 


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