News: No news is good news...

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: The UK's EU Referendum  (Read 36062 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Irisado

  • A Light in The Grim-Darkness ~ Guns Don't Kill People, Copyright Stats Do | Farseer | Reporting Live! from the Crime Scene | Somewhat behind the times
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11480
  • Country: gb
  • Soñando debajo del arco iris
  • Armies: Administrators must not play 40K
Re: The UK's EU Referendum
« Reply #140 on: June 26, 2016, 02:01:30 PM »
Getting back to the fallout from this referendum, it's very rare for me to agree with Alastair Campbell, but he is spot on: BBC News (UK) on Twitter: ""If Boris is prime minister, I will be ashamed to be.

I remember when I watched the Vote Leave trio respond to their victory and Cameron's resignation, they did look as miserable as Campbell suggests.  They have no plan and have been totally caught off guard by Cameron's resignation.
You haunt my in-box like an ex-girl friend could only dream of.

The Forum Rules - Please Read and Remember Them.

Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline The GrimSqueaker

  • The Badger on the Road | Staff Infection Officer | Debased Vassal Slayer | Title Barfly | XOXOXO Gossip Girl | Bent Over
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19053
  • Country: nz
  • From the Fourth Necromantic House
Re: The UK's EU Referendum
« Reply #141 on: June 26, 2016, 03:40:42 PM »
To be fair, the government should have a plan. It is their job after all to plan for contingencies and emergencies. They've known for a while about the vote and should have had some outline/guidelines for what to do in either eventuality. Leave should have one as well, to be sure, yet the onus is more on the government as they had the information and resources to get something formulated.

In today's news, Leave didn't make promises, merely stated possibilities. What a bunch of outrageously sexy lycra-clad pixies.
Quote from: @TracyAuGoGO
Tact is for people who are too slow witted to be sarcastic.
Drink
Knights Tippler
Quote from: Surviving the World
If you can't make fun of something, it's probably not worth taking seriously.

You have to love the smell of science in the morning. It smells of learning.... or perhaps a gas leak.

Offline Irisado

  • A Light in The Grim-Darkness ~ Guns Don't Kill People, Copyright Stats Do | Farseer | Reporting Live! from the Crime Scene | Somewhat behind the times
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11480
  • Country: gb
  • Soñando debajo del arco iris
  • Armies: Administrators must not play 40K
Re: The UK's EU Referendum
« Reply #142 on: June 26, 2016, 04:08:19 PM »
I agree.  The government ought to have had a plan in place, and that was a latest in a long list of blunders from calling the referendum in the first place, how it was run, and the failure to plan for the wrong result.

Leave are just missing in action now.  They're desperately trying to come up with a plan, all the while saying that they didn't promise what they actually promised on freedom of movement, the NHS, immigration, or for that matter anything.  The fact that they have deceived people is clear for all to see, but far too few are paying attention, sadly.
You haunt my in-box like an ex-girl friend could only dream of.

The Forum Rules - Please Read and Remember Them.

Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline The GrimSqueaker

  • The Badger on the Road | Staff Infection Officer | Debased Vassal Slayer | Title Barfly | XOXOXO Gossip Girl | Bent Over
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19053
  • Country: nz
  • From the Fourth Necromantic House
Re: The UK's EU Referendum
« Reply #143 on: June 26, 2016, 04:13:08 PM »
The Daily Mail has actually started telling people the truth about the consequences and from the comment sections people are not happy. It's darkly amusing to read as people suddenly realise they've been lied to and didn't look hard enough to find out.
Quote from: @TracyAuGoGO
Tact is for people who are too slow witted to be sarcastic.
Drink
Knights Tippler
Quote from: Surviving the World
If you can't make fun of something, it's probably not worth taking seriously.

You have to love the smell of science in the morning. It smells of learning.... or perhaps a gas leak.

Offline Lonewolf

  • Cthulhu cultist, The Final Solution | Swarmlord | Staff Soap Spotter
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4558
  • Country: de
  • Murdering armies since 2003 - retired since 2012
Re: The UK's EU Referendum
« Reply #144 on: June 26, 2016, 04:17:35 PM »
Well, as said, people are starting to learn their lesson...

What i really dont get is the big surprise and lack of planing that is evident on all sides. The polls for/vs Brexit have been pretty much tied for quite some time.


No problem, I'll give you a 100% increase in pay effective immediately and retroactive to 1999.

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

  • Grand Master of the Deathwing | Oh the lolmanity! | 40kOnline's Care Bear of LOL!
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11372
  • Country: ca
  • We were murderers first, last, and always!
  • Armies: Dark Angels, Custodes, Knights, Night Lords
Re: The UK's EU Referendum
« Reply #145 on: June 26, 2016, 04:18:26 PM »
The Daily Mail has actually started telling people the truth about the consequences and from the comment sections people are not happy. It's darkly amusing to read as people suddenly realise they've been lied to and didn't look hard enough to find out.
Link?
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

Quote
"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline The GrimSqueaker

  • The Badger on the Road | Staff Infection Officer | Debased Vassal Slayer | Title Barfly | XOXOXO Gossip Girl | Bent Over
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19053
  • Country: nz
  • From the Fourth Necromantic House
Re: The UK's EU Referendum
« Reply #146 on: June 26, 2016, 04:20:44 PM »
Quote from: @TracyAuGoGO
Tact is for people who are too slow witted to be sarcastic.
Drink
Knights Tippler
Quote from: Surviving the World
If you can't make fun of something, it's probably not worth taking seriously.

You have to love the smell of science in the morning. It smells of learning.... or perhaps a gas leak.

Offline Irisado

  • A Light in The Grim-Darkness ~ Guns Don't Kill People, Copyright Stats Do | Farseer | Reporting Live! from the Crime Scene | Somewhat behind the times
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11480
  • Country: gb
  • Soñando debajo del arco iris
  • Armies: Administrators must not play 40K
Re: The UK's EU Referendum
« Reply #147 on: June 26, 2016, 04:51:11 PM »
The Daily Mail has actually started telling people the truth

Now that really is a first.

What i really dont get is the big surprise and lack of planing that is evident on all sides. The polls for/vs Brexit have been pretty much tied for quite some time.

Everyone in positions of power thought that remain would win, even if only by a small margin, so nothing was done.

People have been showing screen shots on Twitter. Here's some from the other day:
http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/the-mail-has-explained-what-brexit-means-and-its-readers-seem-shocked--Z1772TI4aNW

It dawns on them now.  As I mentioned to someone the other day, they don't know what they've lost until they suddenly realise what they won't have any more.
You haunt my in-box like an ex-girl friend could only dream of.

The Forum Rules - Please Read and Remember Them.

Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Lonewolf

  • Cthulhu cultist, The Final Solution | Swarmlord | Staff Soap Spotter
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4558
  • Country: de
  • Murdering armies since 2003 - retired since 2012
Re: The UK's EU Referendum
« Reply #148 on: June 26, 2016, 05:15:07 PM »
Well at the very least it will serve as an example for other EU members.


No problem, I'll give you a 100% increase in pay effective immediately and retroactive to 1999.

Offline dog_of_war

  • Aspect Warrior
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 862
  • Country: ca
  • Armies: Orks, Chaos Space Marines, Eldar, Dark Eldar
Re: The UK's EU Referendum
« Reply #149 on: June 26, 2016, 08:12:22 PM »
Another very interesting interpretation here.

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/people-are-really-really-hoping-this-theory-about-david-cameron-and-brexit-is-true--bJhqBql0VZ

I'm not as familiar with UK politics, as everyone else posting, but it seems very plausible.

Offline The GrimSqueaker

  • The Badger on the Road | Staff Infection Officer | Debased Vassal Slayer | Title Barfly | XOXOXO Gossip Girl | Bent Over
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19053
  • Country: nz
  • From the Fourth Necromantic House
Re: The UK's EU Referendum
« Reply #150 on: June 26, 2016, 10:33:23 PM »
That was the Facebook thing I linked too earlier. Quite the fascinating analysis. Makes me almost respect Cameron for a couple of minutes as the potential for four dimensional chess revenge is just too good to ignore.
Quote from: @TracyAuGoGO
Tact is for people who are too slow witted to be sarcastic.
Drink
Knights Tippler
Quote from: Surviving the World
If you can't make fun of something, it's probably not worth taking seriously.

You have to love the smell of science in the morning. It smells of learning.... or perhaps a gas leak.

Offline Irisado

  • A Light in The Grim-Darkness ~ Guns Don't Kill People, Copyright Stats Do | Farseer | Reporting Live! from the Crime Scene | Somewhat behind the times
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11480
  • Country: gb
  • Soñando debajo del arco iris
  • Armies: Administrators must not play 40K
Re: The UK's EU Referendum
« Reply #151 on: June 27, 2016, 05:12:13 AM »
The latest plan from Boris Johnson is that the UK is going to remain in the single market yet be able to restrict migration and freedom of movement.  This is impossible within the structure of the treaties and is, therefore, impossible.  It's pie in the sky thinking from Vote Leave, and demonstrates either their complete lack of understanding of the EU or their utter denial that the UK is so important that the treaties will be rewritten to accommodate it.
You haunt my in-box like an ex-girl friend could only dream of.

The Forum Rules - Please Read and Remember Them.

Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline TagniK'ZuR

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 805
  • Country: za
  • You have the right to act your shoe size
Re: The UK's EU Referendum
« Reply #152 on: June 27, 2016, 05:55:45 AM »
@ Wyddr, Irisado Yes, it does seem to be a trade/commonwealth thing, although I'm never really sure if we're part of the commonwealth or not, we compete in the commonwealth athletics, but otherwise, we don't really have much to do with Britain (well....obviously Trade linked to it in ways I'm not aware of..)

Btw, not sure if it's been mentioned (you guys really talk a lot, and I get lazy to read everything)
But I saw 2 different graphs, one showing that older people were more inclined to vote "leave" while younger people were more inclined to vote "stay'
And the second showing that older people had a much better turnout than younger people.

so, much like in SA, it would seem that voter apathy, especially among young adults, had a profound effect on the results :(
Birthdays are good for you, the more you have the longer you live.

If you ignore your health long enough, it will go away.

Offline dog_of_war

  • Aspect Warrior
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 862
  • Country: ca
  • Armies: Orks, Chaos Space Marines, Eldar, Dark Eldar
Re: The UK's EU Referendum
« Reply #153 on: June 27, 2016, 07:47:46 AM »
Ah, I wasn't sure if that was posted already. As TangiK'Zur mentioned, there's an awful lot of posts in this topic lol.

I am amazed by all the public interviews I see on the news every evening how much leave voters based there entire decision to leave on their xenophobia.

They Took Our Jobs - YouTube

Is this the direction the world is going now? Our past election in Canada seemed to buck the latest trend, by punishing the Conservative party for their attempt to win votes through fear mongering, but if the Brexit vote and rise of Trump are any indication, the world is moving into a dangerous chapter.

Offline Irisado

  • A Light in The Grim-Darkness ~ Guns Don't Kill People, Copyright Stats Do | Farseer | Reporting Live! from the Crime Scene | Somewhat behind the times
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11480
  • Country: gb
  • Soñando debajo del arco iris
  • Armies: Administrators must not play 40K
Re: The UK's EU Referendum
« Reply #154 on: June 27, 2016, 08:21:20 AM »
Btw, not sure if it's been mentioned (you guys really talk a lot, and I get lazy to read everything)
But I saw 2 different graphs, one showing that older people were more inclined to vote "leave" while younger people were more inclined to vote "stay'
And the second showing that older people had a much better turnout than younger people.

so, much like in SA, it would seem that voter apathy, especially among young adults, had a profound effect on the results :(

This is correct.  Just to add one caveat, the turnout among younger people was higher than usual, but still not high enough to counter the older vote, because there are more older voters and more of them vote.

It was the high turnout among the old Labour working class voters (who normally do not vote) to vote for Brexit though which was also a strong contributory factor in determining the outcome.

I am amazed by all the public interviews I see on the news every evening how much leave voters based there entire decision to leave on their xenophobia.

I touched on this with the comments about the Hartlepool interviews earlier in this topic, but it is important to emphasise just how much Vote Leave and Farage based the entire last few weeks of the campaign on immigration, sending extremely misleading and xenophobic literature through the post.  Farage also produced that ghastly and misleading poster to stir yet more xenophobia.
You haunt my in-box like an ex-girl friend could only dream of.

The Forum Rules - Please Read and Remember Them.

Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Wyddr

  • Author Eminence: Hereticus Liber Daemonica | Fio'shas Shi
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5254
  • Country: us
    • My blog about SF/F stuff
  • Armies: Daemons, Imperial Fists, Tau, Ksons, Vostroyans
Re: The UK's EU Referendum
« Reply #155 on: June 27, 2016, 10:31:45 AM »
The Young/Old divide in voting is very clear in the US, too. It's part of why Bernie Sanders lost the primary (massive support among young people, but young people don't turn out) and part of why Trump is still relevant - even though his support among young people is *historically* low, it doesn't much matter because you young whipper-snappers don't get off your asses to the polling booth and make sure the olds don't make dumb amphetamine parrot happen.

And we Middle Aged people just stand here, tear at our hair, and yell WHYYYYYY!?

(note: this is a bit unfair to young voters, as they are a proportionally smaller demographic than old folks in most of the places we're talking about here, but I'd also argue they're healthier and better able to get to the polls all on their own, so what the hell is their excuse, anyway?  ;))

Offline Lonewolf

  • Cthulhu cultist, The Final Solution | Swarmlord | Staff Soap Spotter
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4558
  • Country: de
  • Murdering armies since 2003 - retired since 2012
Re: The UK's EU Referendum
« Reply #156 on: June 27, 2016, 10:55:49 AM »
Just read an intresting article concerning the resons for the brexit. Forgive the in parts bad google translation, i tried to fix the worst blunders  :P

"He looks so, the European enemy, not particularly educated, from the country, over 60. He also has something against the Internet. 71 percent of the people who voted for the Proposed referendum on United Kingdom membership of the European Union, see the Internet as a "force of evil" as a quick survey revealed after the vote. That the ancients have betrayed the youth, because they are no longer interested in the new, is the great mantra after this election.

It is obvious that all can not live in the English hinterland of the 17.4 million exit proponents, where besides the Internet also feminists, Green and foreigners are despised. Even in the London area, the epitome of casual, cosmopolitan life, 40 percent voted for the exit.

But that someone could have voted with a university degree and a job with perspective against the EU, just does not seem to imagine. When people voluntarily leave a club, the other club members praise as heaven on earth, such mortification can be coped best by declaring the rejection with the narrowness of the naysayers."...


"There may be somewhere in North Lincolnshire a few confused spirits who believe that the turning away from the continent promises paradise. Apparently there are also people that hold the UKIP leader Nigel Farage for a serious politician rather than a political handbag seller. But those who had not clogged eyes and ears in the past few weeks, knew that it is a risky thing to get out of the EU.

The conspicuous unwillingness to deal with the reasons for the election victory

Obama has warned of the withdrawal, the IMF and virtually every economist of distinction. That a majority of Britons still decided to choose independence, increased understandably the surprise of the Forsaken. Everywhere you can now read, many Britons  never realized what they voted for and that they agree that they would reverse their decision. But that is part of the therapeutic program, which the media offers in this country for the psychological relief of their readers. Also, the myth, the elderly have the stolen the young ones the future, can be refuted easily. In the 18- to 24-year-olds, according to Sky Data, the turnout was 36 percent. If anything, the youths slept through the future.

With the shock of the election in the UK corresponds a conspicuous unwillingness to deal with the reasons for the victory. That one of the oldest democracies in the world could have lost confidence in the European institutions, because they valued their democracy, is a thought that has been quickly banished again. Instead, we hear how ruthlessly David Cameron was to call a referendum. One can not organize the referendum on such a complicated thing as the EU membership, is the put forward in numerous variations argument.

It is amazing how many commentators have parroted that, without being aware of what that says about their understanding of democracy. Translated, the phrase, elections are only good as long as coming out of what is deemed the part formed fit. Or how it brought the "Star" columnist Mickey Beisenherz to the point: "Democracy is a good thing The stupid thing is only that the stupid are allowed to take part.."

"Deepening" is the code word for the further transfer of power to Brussels

The fact that the announcement of Geert Wilders and Marine Le Pen, now also to ensure that in France and the Netherlands referendums are held, is seen as a threat, shows the fundamental weakness of the European project. What should we the people vote for, if not the key issues? About the level of roaming charges, or the sex ratio at the traffic light man?

If one where to take a real look for the Brexit reasons, one would have to be talking about the refugee policy. One will never be able to prove what part played Merkel's open borders policy for the outcome of the referendum. But the images of refugee columns toward Bavaria scared many Britons, that may be considered certain. If not even the disciplined Germans are willing or able to protect their borders, who should succeed then?

The voices were barely counted, there was already talk of Europe must deepen in response to the British referendum. "Deepening" is the code word for the further transfer of power to Brussels. The SPD chairman Sigmar Gabriel has submitted a plan for a "Community Growth Initiative", an "economic Schengen", as he calls it, which means nothing more than that the governments lose more power over their budget, that is then distributed to where the demand is seen in Brussel. It takes a very special relationship to reality, to pick out from the vote of the British the task to further weaken national parliaments.

Populists such as the EU-opponent Boris Johnson appeal to emotions. People like Gabriel are obsessed with the idea, policy can be purchase agreement by promising subsidies from above. One can argue which side has the worse man. In any case, it looks as if those that appeal to the heart rather than the wallet, right now are on top."


No problem, I'll give you a 100% increase in pay effective immediately and retroactive to 1999.

Offline Irisado

  • A Light in The Grim-Darkness ~ Guns Don't Kill People, Copyright Stats Do | Farseer | Reporting Live! from the Crime Scene | Somewhat behind the times
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11480
  • Country: gb
  • Soñando debajo del arco iris
  • Armies: Administrators must not play 40K
Re: The UK's EU Referendum
« Reply #157 on: June 27, 2016, 11:49:53 AM »
The majority of the British electorate has no idea what deepening means in the context of the EU, so that didn't play a role.  Neither did Germany's migration policy.

What did play a role was the way in which leaving the EU was portrayed as being a silver bullet to stop migrants from coming to the UK.  That was a totally false impression to make.  You then had Farage and official Vote Leave campaign leaflets whipping up fear and ignorance about migration, which served only to drive some people to vote out of fear, ignorance, and prejudice, rather than based on the facts.
You haunt my in-box like an ex-girl friend could only dream of.

The Forum Rules - Please Read and Remember Them.

Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline The GrimSqueaker

  • The Badger on the Road | Staff Infection Officer | Debased Vassal Slayer | Title Barfly | XOXOXO Gossip Girl | Bent Over
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19053
  • Country: nz
  • From the Fourth Necromantic House
Re: The UK's EU Referendum
« Reply #158 on: June 27, 2016, 01:58:58 PM »
The sex ratio at the traffic light man? That's going to stick with me for a while.

The Farage advert was also *strikingly* similar with one from 1930's Germany, which was not lost upon many.
Quote from: @TracyAuGoGO
Tact is for people who are too slow witted to be sarcastic.
Drink
Knights Tippler
Quote from: Surviving the World
If you can't make fun of something, it's probably not worth taking seriously.

You have to love the smell of science in the morning. It smells of learning.... or perhaps a gas leak.

Offline Lonewolf

  • Cthulhu cultist, The Final Solution | Swarmlord | Staff Soap Spotter
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4558
  • Country: de
  • Murdering armies since 2003 - retired since 2012
Re: The UK's EU Referendum
« Reply #159 on: June 27, 2016, 02:05:00 PM »
I blame google  :P


No problem, I'll give you a 100% increase in pay effective immediately and retroactive to 1999.

 


Powered by EzPortal