Topic: putting my DE in storage :(

[nawari]

Hi all, its a sad day for me. after playing many games and trying to play with what i have, i have decided to put my DE away. i just cant win games and i dont want to buy more stuff just to make my army a little more competative. last edition my army was well balanced and i had alot of fun, now i just get smashed...

its also not the case about winning all the time, it's just that im not having fun at all. everytime my raider blows up i lose 7-8 wyches out of 10. its just sad lol. my whyches in this edition have not performed well at all, and in most cases havent even made it into combat. now i dont play carelessly, i use cover as much as i can combined with jink and night shields. sometimes i even reserve my raiders to avoid fire. but every army i play lately bring alot of guns to the table.

my mate on the other hand is doing well with his DE. but he plays a warrior list with alot of shooting. thats not how i want to play, and the whole reason i was attracted to DE was the whych cults. oh and every gamer that plays marines at my LGS has a flamer in every tactical unit lol, so overwatch hurts my 3 whyches that made it out of the wreckage alive!

so i write this to say farewell to my dark kin, it has been an awsome ride! thanks for all your opinions and feedback over the time. goodluck to the rest of you and have a blast!

[Khain Mor (/kharandhil)]

been using bad tactics, bad lists too. Wych Cults still work, not like the previous wych Cults, the first WC actually have nothing to do with the current ones. This army proved to be not your thing that's just it. Dark Eldar aren't an easy to use army, the cool new minis made it attractive, but in game it's something else. If you give up this quickly, you are correct to move to chaos, marines, whatever, have fun with your new army ^^.

change is natural and it is normal, GW wants us to buy more stuff, they may be friendly, but they're mostly after our money.

[Ludo]

I feel your pain. I have 40 Wyches that I bought in 5th edition and I haven't brought more than 14 to the field since 6th Ed came out. I have also had to buy another 20 warriors and a razorwing. I still love my DE. The alternative is to bring my ultramarines which are worse off than DE.

It isn't just Wyches that are hurting. Assault based armies are weaker than they used to be.

What are you playing with now that the DE are benched?

[whackenewe]

I know you don't want to add new models to make your list competitive, but I think giving up 2 raider equiv of wyches, and
adding a smallish eldar ally group would distract his big, long range guns for a turn or two.

Having a fortuned FD exach running a quad gun in the back field takes a LOT of fire away from your raiders and venoms.

And, fwiw, grisly trophy's allow your ally to reroll leadership as well, including perils tests.

[Fealhach]

Sorry to hear you've quit the DE. There are no units that I can think of that were nerfed as much as Wyches; not even Howling Banshees came close. I've the same dilemma regarding the models too, but at least I've got Warriors and allies to plug the gap they've left.

I was considering converting them to Corsairs which is something you might want to think about before giving up on them.

[Starrok]

There are no units that I can think of that were nerfed as much as Wyches; not even Howling Banshees came close.

Uhm... Sorry for the slight off-topic, but could you please explain how exactly wyches were nerfed more than banshees?

Banshees lost assault out of transport, AP on weapons and started to suffer from overwatch. Wyches only have overwatch trouble, but have had their antitank buffed dramatically (haywire grenades, anyone?).

Yes, they probably can't be used in large numbers like before, but a couple of squads still performs excellently at smashing light infantry and tanks.

[Aoitora]

Starrok the biggest thing I've noticed with my wych cult is the open topped transports exploding at the same strength as closed top vehicles. So now I go from losing 1/2 to 2/3 each time a vehicle explodes. Also banshees will generally get an armour save against overwatch whilst most weapons in the game ignore the wyches saves. So perhaps that is what the OP is talking about.

Nawari: My advice would be not to  give up on them entirely. My wych cult is a side project and I only play them maybe 1/3 games that I play so this way I have something different to play if I feel like it. In my cult I generally run 5x 8 woman squads in raiders with ravager support and I still either win big or lose big - however these wins do seem to be linked to games where it's been night fighting and Ive got top of turn 1....

On a side note do you run anything other than wych+raider/venom? I take beast packs and reavers as well. I find it's mostly the beast pack that helps as it can quickly get up the field and tie up a heavy weapons team for example. This has added benefit of the beast pack drawing fire off the raiders (things like heavy bolters/multi lasers) people will keep their ML/Lascannons for the vehicles but I'm sure you know as well as I that the mid strength/multi shot weapons are just as, if not more deadly than the single shot ones.

[Starrok]

Starrok the biggest thing I've noticed with my wych cult is the open topped transports exploding at the same strength as closed top vehicles. So now I go from losing 1/2 to 2/3 each time a vehicle explodes. Also banshees will generally get an armour save against overwatch whilst most weapons in the game ignore the wyches saves. So perhaps that is what the OP is talking about.

Well, it's still a comparison between having to suffer a whole round of shooting before even being able to charge (on normal BS!) as well as losing all usefulness against terminator armour, and simply having to deploy more carefully so that the transport doesn't explode on the way. Oh well, and being careful regarding flamers. I wouldn't say this was a big nerf, seeing that they became better against vehicles...

[Raktra (So long, I guess)]

I'm with Starrok on this one. I'm under no illusion there's been quite a few nasty changes to how Dark Eldar work, chiefly the royal beslubber-over about the WWP, but beyond overwatch and vehicles explosions (which will always suck, so "meh" on that one), there's nothing we haven't dealt with before. We also still have the great fortune of high I TEQ slapping power weaponry, which is lacking outside of certain Monstrous Creatures or Abaddon's elsewhere.

[mod] Edited to remove flaming - keep it nice people or I'm shutting this down[/mod]

[nawari]

hey all,

i've had a few days to dwell on my DE. and to be honest i dont think i can put them away for good. i like the models too much and the fluff. instead of giving up im thinking im going to have to suck it up and get some new units. i dont have beast packs yet so i will have to give them a go. might also get some wracks into my list, least its still close combat and a decent tougness.

thanks all for your opinions and feedback, it has made me think alot about my DE. besides i've spent too much money and time on them to just put them away. i think i just have to change and adapt alot more to the new edition. might be a great challenge aswell

[Plastikente]

The power of the community!  Glad to hear you're sticking with the Dark Kin.

Personally, I couldn't give up on my DE for the same reasons - I like the fluff and the models too much (I did even before the new codex!). 

[Dread]

This is funny, I put mine up too. However I am not having much luck with any of my other armies except necrons. It is a shame that we have to load out a list just to play against CSM. I am starting to get rekindled in the idea of fielding my DE again but just haven't quit worked out my tactics. I don't like taking units I don't have as proxies and the only thing I don't own are grotesques. Please keep us updated on how you fare and please give us battle reports as well as advice on what you have discovered. Now lets see, hmmm, what to try?

[Knaru]

If you're dead set on using Raiders full of Wyches, there is a way to adapt to at least bring some semblance of survivability until they reach the safety of close combat: The Haemonculus. 

Stock your Raider with 9 Wyches and one of these fiends.  He'll give the whole unit a Pain Token, so Feel No Pain will help a bit should something pierce the tissue-paper armor of the Raider.

If the Wyches make it into assault range, split him off from the rest of the unit (leaving the Pain Token behind).  Give him a Liquefier Gun or Shattershard, and he has the capacity to really soften up any infantry you point him toward.  Then charge with him first.  The enemy unit will have to choose between using up their Overwatch fire on him, or holding back hoping for a failed charge.  If he makes it into combat, or if the enemy fires Overwatch at him, your Wyches are safe.

And you can get 3 for one HQ slot.  That's protection for 27 Wyches!  And they come very cheap.  Set up with a Liquefier Gun and a Venom Blade (for the optimistic hope that they reach CC), each only costs 65 points.

I hope this helps inspire you to stick with it, and maybe devise other devious tactics of your own to bring to bear against your victims!

[Dread]

Thanks for that Knaru. I actually got my DE out this past monday in a 2 on 2 game. I was sided with CSM against Deathwing/grey knights each of us at 1500 pts. Worked pretty good with the CSM soaking up most of the fire as well as the cc. I am gonna try your advice this coming monday night and see how they fair. However, in my 1500 pts will be 2 razorwings and a void raven so...