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Author Topic: Finally getting to play my DE in 6th vs CSM... some questions  (Read 1538 times)

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Offline angel of death 007

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Finally getting to play my DE in 6th vs CSM... some questions
« on: December 3, 2013, 12:24:32 AM »
So my step son has talked me back into playing 40k again after a long dry spell with a few pick up games and an apocalypse game scattered in.  6th has set me back in game play.  Aside from that I have been trying to pick up a game a week.

So I had all this Dark Eldar stuff I picked up when it was released as I loved the new models.  Only some of it was built so I built up some more stuff, and made a list to have a fun game as my Step son is still learning the game and doesn't have an overly competitive CSM army as of yet.

So in my first week I did the Duke / Baron build.  Only had one wytch squad built took hellions, raider w/ wytch squad, raider w/ warrior squad, wracks in a venom, trueborn with duke in a venom, trueborn with blasters in a venom, ground squad of warriors, scourges, small reaver squad, 2 ravagers and a razorwing.

Overall the army did good but some of the squads I am not really sure about.  So my questions go out to the masses about certain units.

The units I really had the most dislike for were the wytches, hellions, and scourges.   

Hellions:
I can't seem to find what the purpose for the hellions were.  They didn't seem effective enough to use to take an objective so I had them hold an objective in which they pretty much got picked off slowly throughout the game. 

Wyches:
Not really sure how a squad that seems to be geared up for an assault can't do that too effectively.  In my first game without a pain token they lost combat but stuck in there only to get taken out the next turn.  With combat drugs on both turns I got the extra attack one but even with a massive amount of attacks the standard marine unit is a tough nut to crack.   That was with a unit of 9 with hetatrix.   What is the armament for the Hetatrix now or what should it be?  Wounding seemed to be all of impossible.  Reguardless of the amount of attacks they get their mediocre str really is a huge downfall. 

Scourges
I did the five man squad with 2 haywire blasters.   I can honestly say they really didn't contribute much.  Got shot and assaulted first game and second game when I tried to keep them back more they just got shot up.   

In the second game the following week I cut the hellions out due to really lack of a purpose for their points cost. (sucks because I really like the models)  And on that note playing against the new CSM codex seems hardly balanced as the standard cost for a marine is slightly over that of a Wych or warrior.  Yet marines got higher toughness, str, and a great save.  I don't mind being the underdog, heck I love my orks.  But I think dark eldar are even harder to play then eldar.  I love the models and will continue play testing stuff as I go.  I purchased a Talos just to try it out. 

So basically what am I missing or what should I be doing that I am not?  What units do you feel are working in 6th and what is not really worth taking?  I am trying to get a fair assessment of the units by playing them and trying them in different roles when possible.

Offline csjarrat

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Re: Finally getting to play my DE in 6th vs CSM... some questions
« Reply #1 on: December 3, 2013, 04:54:51 AM »
-Hellions:
take in as large a squad as you can with the special char who makes them scoring. this is their only real purpose. beasts are a better fast assault unit, warriors/trueborn do their shooting better.

-Wyches: better tarpit unit than assault unit against anything with marine saves. squad of 9 in raider, champ with agoniser, succubus with agonizer is the only way you'll pack enough out of wyches to punch through marine saves. if you need to deal with marines in hand to hand, you need incubi + archon combination.

-Scourges: expensive for their mediocre damage. mixed weapons stop these guys being too useful, shoot a tank and the carbines are wasted, shoot infantry and the AT weapons are wasted. keep these guys armed with splinter cannons and use for anti infantry. even then, trueborn in a venom do it better


___________________ ____
as for how people like to build armies in 6th:
generally tends to be lots of small units mounted in venoms. a couple of venoms put out an ungodly amount of AI fire for the points expenditure, though raiders are a must if you're rocking anything over 5 men.
-5 man wych squads with haywire grenades are popular to go stickybomb tanks/dreadnaughts etc, as are 5 man warrior squads with a blaster as troops. 10 man warrior unit in raider, with splinter cannon + splinter racks makes for a reasonable gunboat. dont see too many wracks as troops unfortunately.

-beasts units are popular because of their speed, lots of people chuck in a special character or two in here to milk some of the special rules that rub off on an already good unit.
-reaver jetbikes are pretty awesome. super quick, can carry AT guns and survivable (by DE standards). well worth a look at.

-elites vary from incubi to grotesques depending on personal taste for an assualt unit. many players dont take assault units now due to overwatch and strangely enough, premier DE units being too good. they often kill their opponent straight up and get left to take a full round of shooting! grotesques are my fave (cos i custommed the models) take an archon with phantasm grenade launcher, soul trap, husk blade and shadowfield for either squad and add a haemonculus if you take grots (furious charge is lovely on the archon). trueborn are a great option, blasters for anti tank or carbines and cannons for massed splinterfire.

-heavy support is a bit divisive. you'll often see x3 ravager gunships or x2 ravagers + flier of choice. not many people take the monsters because of their speed (or lack thereof) compared to the gunboats, but i really like them when you build your army around them (x2 talos, x1 chronos, next to x5 grotesques + supported with wracks presents a tough wall to shoot through). many armies struggle to deal with monstrous creatures, especially ones with FnP saves as well! Chronos is good here as an infantry support platform. his pie plate and flamer options are auto-takes as good use of both will net you 2 pain tokens a turn for nearby units.
if you do go for the monsters, then trueborn with blasters, reavers with heatlances/blasters can pick up the slack in the anti-tank department.


HQ is a bit divisive too, as mentioned, loads of people take special characters for multiple reasons (scoring hellions for example) but out of the mundane ones here's my pick:
Succubus, fairly meh. fine and cheap option for small games (just give her a venomblade and stick her in an assault unit of some kind) not too fussed but is capable of destroying whole guard/tau/eldar units single handedly. wont scratch marines much without an agoniser or power lance though.

Archon, gets expensive quickly but is the only option if you're taking grotesques or incubi due to his phantasm grenade launcher.

Haemonculous, not survivable so poor choice unless in really low pts games (he is a bit of a bargain). i like to keep them cheap with just the flamer option and bunker them in tough units like grotesques.
they rob assault units of their fleet, so don't put them in with wyches, however tempting it is to get them a pain token.

______________
units i never see: mandrakes. bloodbrides.

hope that helps!!

Offline Plastikente

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Re: Finally getting to play my DE in 6th vs CSM... some questions
« Reply #2 on: December 8, 2013, 04:08:37 PM »
Late to join the conversation, but, for what it's worth, I have given some opinions on general DE list build, HQs, Troops and Elites via the guides linked in my sig.  Csjarrat has given a good overview though.

I hope you enjoy playing with your DE.  We got some seriously good looking models when they reinvented everything for the new codex, and we take a bit of skill to use well (so fragile), but it's well worth it when it works out.

 


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