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Offline magenb

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Webway Guardians
« on: January 11, 2018, 03:17:34 PM »
So what your experience with using this?

A full squad still only takes out 4-5 marines, so are you drop them in early smash into a flank and soak up some fire or are you holding them off for a mid game smash and grab on an objective?

Did it not work for you and swapped it out for something else like a fireprism?


Offline Blazinghand

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Re: Webway Guardians
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2018, 03:55:37 PM »
A squad of 20 guardians coming out of the webway will probably wipe a 5-man tac squad with minimal difficulty, and might even be able to kill 2 if it has a couple Shuriken Cannons. Depends a lot on those rends, of course. I think the goal with something like this is to shoot at chaff units like cultists if you can, and present a big threat that can sit on an objective, and leave a point open for Celestial Shield so they're hard to kill.

I think if you want deep striking anti-infantry firepower, Eldar have other options like Warp Spiders and Swooping Hawks, and Swooping Hawks are in some ways better, 20 guardians with Shuriken Cannons costs about the same as 15 swooping hawks, who put out a blistering 60 shots (plus grenades etc) that bring them pretty close the guardians at shooting MEQs out of cover, much better than guardians at shooting guardsmen and such. of course, Guardians' rending shuriken weaponry makes them the winner against MEQs in cover, and they still outperform when shooting MEQs out of cover by a reasonable margin.
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Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Webway Guardians
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2018, 05:37:14 PM »
I have used it once with Storm guardians. Max size unit dropped out, got quicken off to move them up and Enhance on them. Winged Autuarch with banshee mask charged first to absorb overwatch and then the squad hit.

They ended up killing a Shadowseer, Death Jester, and a 5 man troupe squad. So I was pretty pleased. Need to play them more, but so far the only way I have been able to successfully use them
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Blazinghand

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Re: Webway Guardians
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2018, 06:41:48 PM »
I have used it once with Storm guardians. Max size unit dropped out, got quicken off to move them up and Enhance on them. Winged Autuarch with banshee mask charged first to absorb overwatch and then the squad hit.

They ended up killing a Shadowseer, Death Jester, and a 5 man troupe squad. So I was pretty pleased. Need to play them more, but so far the only way I have been able to successfully use them


Would Empower work better than Enhance, maybe, since they are already pretty accurate but their chance-to-wound is bad?
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Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Webway Guardians
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2018, 10:49:37 PM »
I am using Supreme disdain to try and get as many extra attacks as possible. Enhance basically doubles that. Nets me about another 16 attacks.

Be interesting to see the math on Empower vs Enhance there
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline admironheart

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Re: Webway Guardians
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2018, 11:00:29 AM »
The Storm Guardian Trick is Risky as even with everything going your way. About 1 in 4 games they will be stuck in the open. Ive gone to smaller units to just support my hth hitters and screen them with Dire Avengers. The Avengers have a good overwatch and the opponent normally Consolidates into the Storm Guardians just behind. Then next turn I am guaranteed to go first if I don't charge with any other units. Supremem Disdain + Enhance + Doom usually clears the line. If you have Doom...Empower vs Enhance goes down in value.

AS to the Original OP. The main use of the Webway bomb is as you used it. I try to use Celestial Shield to draw fire to them, but recently my opponent just ignores them. I normally wipe a unit of marines with 17+ 1 Cannon.  I have recently decided to shelve the WebWay and move toward a squadron of Vypers with Cloudstrike.  Will test that configuration out soon.
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Offline magenb

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Re: Webway Guardians
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2018, 09:23:25 PM »
Vypers are significantly more points and only take out 3-4 marines out of cover. FYI blood angels crush them in melee :( found that out the hard way lol.

For less points you can take 7 windriders with cannons and do a bit more damage than vypers.

Or for slightly less points than vypers,  9 windriders with twin cats, so it is almost the same fire-power as 20 man GDs, will probably live longer than foot GDs though, but a fair chunk of points.

None of these can hold objectives either, but if you are just looking for a nuke it's a handy option to consider.



« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 09:44:22 PM by magenb »

Offline Fenris

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Re: Webway Guardians
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2018, 10:26:54 PM »
I've tried webway guardians, but only a unit of 10, they do some nice damage 3.33 MEQ or 6.67 GEC to be exact statistically.
My main problem was to get them all in between 9-12" from the target so I think it may be difficult to fit 20 in the same manner.
Theoretically they can stay in 3 rows 7" wide, but in practice, that is not always possible.
Both "celestial shield" and "black guardian" stratagems works well, but it's not that marvelous as it seems unless you can actually fit 20 + 2 cannons, because stratagems cost CP.
Doom is still very powerful with shuriken though, but it can fail and be denied.

Personally I wouldn't use stormies in this manner, but I can see how windriders or shining spears could be useful.


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Offline magenb

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Re: Webway Guardians
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2018, 12:18:11 AM »
I've tried webway guardians, but only a unit of 10, they do some nice damage 3.33 MEQ or 6.67 GEC to be exact statistically.
My main problem was to get them all in between 9-12" from the target so I think it may be difficult to fit 20 in the same manner.
Theoretically they can stay in 3 rows 7" wide, but in practice, that is not always possible.

That is a good point, Windriders with twin cats as webway bomb would be easier to fit in space wise, you could back it up with Fire and Fade to stay out of most rapid fire ranges and if you've run Alaitoc, that -1 to hit should keep things interesting, especially if you can make it into cover.


Offline papagumdrop

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Re: Webway Guardians
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2018, 07:29:33 AM »
Granted my sample size is very small (only two games) but I have used a 20 guardian Webway bomb to great effect so far, once as a first turn strike and once on turn three that won me the game.

The opponents were marines in the first case and Tyranids in the second case. Both times I backed it up with the guardian shield strategem to soak return fire. I drop a swooping hawk wing exarch with them for the re-roll bubble. Also against anything that will charge them if not wiped out it will probably happen since as mentioned, 20 is next to impossible to fit in a spot where they can all be at max range.

The best use was against the Tyranid force where I Webwayed them in and the killed the Tyranid Warrior screen protecting his backfield, popped the shield strat and then aced his exocrine, then took his back objective worth 4 points to win me the game. The bulk of his stealers were tied up trying to take my back objective from my wraithguard flamers. I don't have any hawks currently so can't speak to a comparison but they are on my wish list.

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Re: Webway Guardians
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2018, 09:01:03 AM »
IMO the Guardian bomb is a great weapon in your aresenal. I've used it a couple of times and really liked it. I think they have very, very solid offense and can be made very durable with a number of stratagems. Also if you are going for a battalion its a solid investment.

However... there are some issues. If you are playing against high model count armies, on terrain dense boards it can be really hard to get them into position, especially with their short range.

Morale can be a problem too, suddenly you can find yourself burning a ton of command points just to have them survive the counter-strike that will doubtlessly be coming in. However, it can be a real distraction that'll take attention away from your more vital units.

If you've got Guardians, plan on running a Battalion I'd recommend them to make regular rotation, especially if you are playing Iyanden with their excellent morale control. But if you are using them as the principal anti-infantry weapon, you could struggle to get them into position on certain tabletops. I'd definitley have some additional options ready to back them up, like Swooping Hawks or even Saim-Hann laser/cannon bikes depending on Craftworld
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Offline admironheart

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Re: Webway Guardians
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2018, 10:22:29 PM »
be careful who you fight. Necrons have a unit that pops in when you bring in reserves. They can do a number on webway guardians. When their codex drops look for webway/cloudstrike to be neutered pretty good.

You get hit with the phasing in unit and then a moral check on your turn. After their shooting and another Moral check and/or a charge those 20 models disappear.
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Re: Webway Guardians
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2018, 09:15:48 AM »
A lot of imperial armies have a stratagem they can pop, which allows them to shoot at a deepstriking unit. So, don't let that take you off guard. If that's the case, might be worth dropping turn 3, when a lot of command points have already been spent.
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Re: Webway Guardians
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2018, 10:16:51 AM »
Which factions all have that option? 

I know Craftworlds through Forewarned and Space Marines through Auspex Scan (or something similar).  Do Mechanicus or any of the other Imperials?
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Re: Webway Guardians
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2018, 02:43:07 PM »
I think all Marines, adeptus mechanicus and maybe astra millitarium. 
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Offline magenb

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Re: Webway Guardians
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2018, 04:06:46 PM »
So far all the "good guys" have a DS counter that lets them shoot at that DSing unit if they are within 12" but -1 to hit (imperial version). CWE version is slightly different and more CP. So worth it especially if someone lands near reapers...

Evil armies just need to wear it :) but lets be fair, they do get a lot of other cool stuff anyway.








« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 04:37:17 PM by magenb »

Offline bca11

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Re: Webway Guardians
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2018, 11:00:18 PM »
Technically they don't need to be near reapers - they just need to be visible and in range of their reaper launchers. It's a pretty significant denial area if you deploy right, and if your opponent knows what it can do that's exactly what it becomes - area denial. You won't actually spend any CP on it most of the time as he'll never knowingly expose a unit to that. It's actually much more powerful than the imperial version, as it doesn't have an explicit range restriction, and doesn't impose a penalty to the shot (though even if it did, it wouldn't make a difference to reapers).

Offline Blazinghand

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Re: Webway Guardians
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2018, 11:59:10 PM »
Technically they don't need to be near reapers - they just need to be visible and in range of their reaper launchers. It's a pretty significant denial area if you deploy right, and if your opponent knows what it can do that's exactly what it becomes - area denial. You won't actually spend any CP on it most of the time as he'll never knowingly expose a unit to that. It's actually much more powerful than the imperial version, as it doesn't have an explicit range restriction, and doesn't impose a penalty to the shot (though even if it did, it wouldn't make a difference to reapers).

The Eldar version also lets you use units other than Infantry if you desire (though with a unit of Dark Reapers, you'd probably prefer that). Other than the Farseer requirement it's better in every way. One of our strongest stratagems.
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