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Author Topic: General advice on marines  (Read 1047 times)

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Offline dark tempestus

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General advice on marines
« on: July 18, 2011, 06:12:45 PM »
It's said the best way to find out an armies weakness is to play it against itself. So thats what I've done a couple of times with my space marines and I found out alot. Space Marines are extremley versatile but there are some units that are a must. Firstly a Chaplain in terminator armour escourted by a unit of assault terminators is crucial. (two lightning claws and 3 thunder hammers is best I think). Why? you may ask. OK well....Chaplain allows you to re-roll failed to hit in the first round of combat. With Lightning claws this means some termies really pack a punch. Basically I use them to absorb a lot of firepower in the 1st turn because of the 2+ save. target them at relatively easy to kill squads. (when playing against other SM I targeted tactical squads). This way they don't get wrapped up in a long combat. Ok moving on, I'd strongly advise two dreadnoughts. One venerable with an assault cannon and the other standard with a plasma cannon. Why 2? Well dreads look real scary to an enemy so he's gonna hit them hard so one will eventually bite the dust. Use them to wipe out injured squads or take out vehicles. If you bring assault marines bring them in units of 10 as they will otherwise be wiped out. Back devastators up with a combat squad. Give your captain an escourt of vanuguard vets without jet packs. they hurt more than a command squad. Rhinos are crucial for transporting your tact squads to objectives. Thats all I can think of for now.

Offline therealpapasmurf

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Re: General advice on marines
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2011, 02:30:17 AM »
While you make some decent points, you are wrong in assuming that what you have listed is vital to all marine lists - there is more than one way to skin a cat as it were.

"Give your captain an escourt of vanuguard vets without jet packs. they hurt more than a command squad"

I dont see how. A 5 man command squad is essentially a 5 man vanguard squad that has FNP for 10 points less. Granted you cant take more than five men, but a 10 man vanguard squad is pretty pricey. For the points you would be better off running 5 th+ss terminators
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Offline HORDE

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Re: General advice on marines
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2011, 03:06:10 AM »
This would maybe be true if you were using it to analyse tyranids, necrons, dark angels, witch hunters and to some extent eldar - the older books where not all units are created equal and there are limited choices for a competitive army. The space marine book has many viable unit choices and you can build a number of armies that are viable. I suggest you take your initial observations and continue playing and refining the army against other armies, not just space marines.
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Offline dark tempestus

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Re: General advice on marines
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2011, 04:59:14 PM »
Thanks for the advice again guys. just one point on the van vets and command squad debate. i found you can arm a veteran squad a bit better than a command squad and with the apothecary comp champ and standard bearer it can be a bit pricy if you arm them with power weapons too. just saying. and also if you give your vanguard vets storm shields they are just as good as if they had feel no pain.

Offline Anomander Rake

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Re: General advice on marines
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2011, 05:29:55 PM »
If you plan on using Vanguard as a HQ support squad, with power weapons and stormshield I would advice you to use terminators instead..they are both cheaper and often better equipped.
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Offline dark tempestus

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Re: General advice on marines
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2011, 05:39:43 PM »
Just adding some more ideas that i left out.. A thunderfire cannon is a really superb model. it isnt too expensive, comes with a hardy techmarine and packs a mighty punch. you might not think a techmarine can survive much but when i playd IG he soakd up sooo much damage it was ridiculous. It dosnt look like it but it doles out so much pain. your average airburst salvo is devastating. for example, against IG turn 2 takes out 17 infantry men. against marines, wipes out an assault squad, against orks, 15 boyz. 4 blasts are really devastating if you dont scatter badly. I would say to target smallish medium units. eg boyz or tact squads. its best to target units with a bad armour save as airburst is AP4. taking pedro kantor is quite effective if you bring sternguard vets. I like this combo, 10 man unit of sternguard vets, with pedro taggd in the squad. (in case they get tangled in close combat) if you are playin objectives rush them to an objective and hold it. 10 men makes them quite durable and pedro makes them count as scoring units. perfect! unless you are using termies deep striking can be quite risky. a 5 man squad isnt going to last long behind enemy lines! take a few drop pods so at least some will come down together.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 06:10:58 PM by dark tempestus »

Offline Leocuta

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Re: General advice on marines
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2011, 06:52:10 AM »
The Techmarine will be targeted more than the cannon as he hasn't got an Invunerable save, so if you use a TC use Master of the Forgem as he can be an operater and he can repair it. If you are facing a TC use AP 1/ST 8 or higher on the Techmarine.
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Offline ak-73

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Re: General advice on marines
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2011, 07:23:50 AM »
I thought you can only target the unit as a whole and must roll what you hit - cannon or gunner?

Alex

Offline Leocuta

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Re: General advice on marines
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2011, 08:09:44 AM »
You may be right as I may no have played the right rules.
If you fail, try, try again, if you still fail, try something else.

Offline HORDE

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Re: General advice on marines
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2011, 02:22:42 PM »
Ak has the right of it. Its a random roll. 1-4 operator, 5-6 cannon.

Tempestus, I don't want to sound harsh but you should not be giving advice when your rules are not right. Heavy weapons cannot fire when they deploy from a drop pod.
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Offline dark tempestus

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Re: General advice on marines
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2011, 06:03:59 PM »
Sorry about that guys, I didnt know about that rule. Could you please give me a reference where I can check it up? There might be somthing I forgot. :P

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: General advice on marines
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2011, 11:01:46 PM »
Really?

Ok then...

For the rules on how heavy weapons work
Page 29, BRB, HEAVY WEAPONS

As for why it doesn't work in a drop pod, there are many references for you
Page 95, BRB, DEEP STRIKE.
Page 67, BRB, DISEMBARKING
BRB FAQ, page 8, second question in left hand column.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 11:04:42 PM by Battle Master Lomandalis »
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Offline KJQ

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Re: General advice on marines
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2011, 01:41:28 PM »
Ak has the right of it. Its a random roll. 1-4 operator, 5-6 cannon.

> You've got the allocation of hits backwards (RB Pg 55, 2nd para under 'Shooting').

The TFC is the one "must have" unit in all my lists now. There is no better value HS choice for C:SM IMHO.  I put it and/or the TM in a ruin and have the techmarine bolster the ruin. Now the unit gets a 3+ cover save, and/or the TM his 2+ armor save.  Four blast templates with 3 munitions choices is fantastic, even for lousy rollers like me  ;). One of the few units that can wipe out an entire infantry unit with some good rolls. Add the 60" range and it's a keeper for me.

Yes, it's a "glass cannon", but since I usually also have Preds and/or Vindis and maybe a dread or two, it isn't usually fired at until it's already earned it's points back. Especially true in my club as I'm the only one who seems to play it, so unfamiliar opponents tend to ignore it until after they've felt the pain.

On a related note, one especially cheesy variant is to get the LR Achilles which has the TFC, put 5 scouts in it, park it on an objective and blast away while shouting "come to papa!".  ;D
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Offline HORDE

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Re: General advice on marines
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2011, 02:03:40 PM »
Ah, my bad. I knew it was one way or the other.

The achilles is pretty nasty, but it should be for its points cost.
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Offline dark tempestus

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Re: General advice on marines
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2011, 05:06:27 PM »
problem is you cant bring the achilles in a standard mission with reg marines and its real pricy. I also want to ask for some advice on scouts. ive used them in past battles but they seem to be kind of useless. i usually end up using them to hold up some units in close combat for a turn or two. and thanks for the reference pages guys :D

 


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