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Author Topic: whats in your dev squad?  (Read 2068 times)

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Offline adz594

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whats in your dev squad?
« on: August 15, 2011, 03:51:54 PM »
hi, being kinda new to the game (just under 1 year) i still strugle to know the basics, in the time i've been playing i've only had 4 battles, and so when i use my dev squad i  struggle to know whats best to use. i do have 2/3 of each heavy weapon made and painted and ready to go in my blood angels list but always seem to lose them early on etc before i can figure out if its the best choice. so what would you guys recommend i use. my small circle od friends collect ultra marines, orks and nids, so normally we 2v2 in matches.

any input would be great.

cheers

adz594

Offline Caustic

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Re: whats in your dev squad?
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2011, 04:14:39 PM »
Well if your Blood Angels you have the cheaper Devestators, so I would recommend using them in either an anti-tank role (2MLs, 2LCs or 4MLs) or an anti-MEQ role (4PCs).  The only time you can really mix weapons is when you have 10 Devestators and plan to combat squad them.

Other then that a good list will use at least two of them to ensure redundancy, that way your opponent doesn't target fire them down first turn so you get more use out of the both of them.

Offline EpeeBill

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Re: whats in your dev squad?
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2011, 04:46:38 PM »
My Devs are almost always Plasma Cannons, with Missile Launchers being second. These two weapons are both flexible enough to attack infantry and light armor. The only times I've ever rolled out the LasCannon Devs were Apocalypse games where all sorts of crazy stuff is going to come out.


Offline KJQ

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Re: whats in your dev squad?
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2011, 10:05:42 AM »
I've played vanilla marines for 1.5 years. I have all of the heavy models. While I love Vindis and Preds, the best overall SM heavy unit IMHO is the Devastator Squad. The best value heavy support unit is the TFC, but that is another story.

The main reasons to go with a Devastator squad are survivability and consistent ability to shoot lots of heavy weapons turn after turn. No other heavy support unit I play can shoot 4 weapons every turn, and stay alive for many turns, if not the whole game. I often use Devs with the MoTF. He fits perfectly with my 10-man Devastator squads. I put him with them (combat squads) in a multi-story ruin, armed with the conversion beamer. Now I have 5 heavy weapons in two 2 and 3 weapon units, and they all get a 3+ cover save (bolstered ruin).  Very, very effective and hard to kill. The main weakness is if assaulted. In big or C&C games I'll put a tactical squad and/or dread on the 2nd or ground floor to intercept any assaulting units. The only real drawback for Devs is that in a DoW deployment they won't be able to shoot the first turn. In my club we all hate DoW, so except in tournaments I rarely have to deal with that limitation.

My favorite load outs are as follows:

1) 10 men with four plasma cannons. Despite occasional overheats, four plasma shots, even if some scatter, put a nasty dent in any infantry unit or MC. Combat squads optional. MotF adds conversion beamer blast & range, and a 3+ cover save for the unit(s).

2) 10 men with two LC & two plasma cannons, combat squads. Good balance against unknown or balanced foes like SM or Chaos. MotF nice here too.

3) 10 men with two ML & two plasma cannons, combat squads. Like #2 but a bit cheaper and more flexibility with the ML's (frag or krak).

4) 5 men with four missile launchers. Cheap krak/frag spam.

Yes, they're an expensive heavy support choice, but 'you get what you pay for'. My gaming experience to date tells me that 40K games, all else being equal, go to the side that shoots/assaults the most. Anything that delays this (e.g. reserves) or otherwise reduces the amount one can do (moving, shaken/stunned anyone?) is a big problem. Devs shoot a lot, and for a long time. Other heavy units seldom do (TFC notwithstanding)
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Offline WisdomLS

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Re: whats in your dev squad?
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2011, 12:12:58 PM »
I like my dev squads reasonable cheap so go with 4xmissile launchers.
Good range, good anti-tank, good anti-infantry, good anti-MC. There's no situation where they aren't useful, sure other weapons are a bit better at certain things but can generally only do that one thing and cost alot more.
I think that plasma cannons have a place but only if you are making a specific anti-MEQ/TEQ list. Missile launchers would seem perfect given your opponents.

Offline Aislinn

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Re: whats in your dev squad?
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2011, 06:01:48 PM »
when i played my Blood angels army, I ran 2x Plasma Cannons and 2x Heavy Bolters for anti infantry.  As far as for AT Goes I would say go with the 2x Lascannons and 2x Missile Launchers, just cause if you want to go Anti infantry you can do the frag rounds to get more of the squad down. 
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Offline Swarmish

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Re: whats in your dev squad?
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2011, 06:40:36 PM »
@ KJQ - Apologize for the n00b-ish question, but when you say you combat squad the 10-man dev team, do you simply separate the MLs from the PCs (for instance) so that you have two 5-man squads?  This is done for redundancy, I presume?

I ask because I WANT these guys to work for me but am shooting blanks, so to speak.  I always kept my dev squad as one 10-man unit, just for the ablative wounds I can spread around.  Not working for me though... 

But to add to the OP's question, I am finding the best luck with either the 4x ML, or spending a few points and going with 2x LC and 2x ML.

Offline Azash76

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Re: whats in your dev squad?
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2011, 01:41:48 AM »
I am a big fan of flexibility in my lists so I like the 4 missile launchers. As a previous poster stated they are decent at taking out just about everything.

I find that other than apoc games I really don't have the points cushion to roll out heavily specialized devastator squads like anti armor dev squads of 4 las cannons or anti horde squads of HB and PC's.

Although that being said I think as the new Dark Eldar army gains in number of players and shows up at the game shops and tournaments with more and more regularity I think you will see HB/PC devastator squads becoming more popular. They are tough to kill effective against anti infantry in every army and they will shred dark eldar vehicles without giving the dark eldar that easy armored vehicle to take out which they are so good at.

Offline KJQ

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Re: whats in your dev squad?
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2011, 08:48:42 AM »
@ KJQ - Apologize for the n00b-ish question, but when you say you combat squad the 10-man dev team, do you simply separate the MLs from the PCs (for instance) so that you have two 5-man squads?  This is done for redundancy, I presume?

I ask because I WANT these guys to work for me but am shooting blanks, so to speak.  I always kept my dev squad as one 10-man unit, just for the ablative wounds I can spread around.  Not working for me though... 

But to add to the OP's question, I am finding the best luck with either the 4x ML, or spending a few points and going with 2x LC and 2x ML.

When I say "combat squad", I do mean putting the two same heavy weapons with 2 bolters and Sarge or 3 bolters.  By the way, I put the Sarge with the pair that will benefit more from the higher BS.  If the weapons are different, then the purpose is to not "waste" shots (i.e. shooting LC and PC at a vehicle).  If all 4 are the same weapon, it's less of an issue but sometimes you want to target 2 different units.

I have to admit I've been favoring the 4 ML config lately as they're so much cheaper and only slightly less effective than LC, and more flexible (frag/krak).  I deal with any moderate-heavy armor with melta weapons in tacs, dreads, or speeders.

I'm not what is "not working" for you.  Are you placing them in good cover?  Ideal is a building ruin, with the HW on top floor, and bolters ("meatshields") below.  I've never lost them all in a game yet except when assaulted.  Another key for effectiveness of the dev squad is also having other units to 'draw' enemy fire.  For example, I would likely also have two Vindicators or dakka Predators as heavies. I also use rhino/razorbacks and drop pod combinations, so whatever I drop behind their lines tends to draw a lot of fire, be it a tac squad, dread or sternguard.
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Offline Swarmish

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Re: whats in your dev squad?
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2011, 09:13:18 AM »
I should have prefaced my last response with "oh by the way, I am relatively new to Space Marines, but..."

The whole mixed-weapons-in-a-single-squad thing is a new dynamic for me. My problems stem from newness to the army, plus a lot of different angles.  I play against a lot of 12+ year vets and the like and maybe they see my huge dev squad and think "ohhh look at all those points!!"  I also play against a decent amount of armor so my dev squad finds themselves as public enemy number 1.

So, flash forward to disappointing results from these guys and it makes me come on here looking for alternatives.  It makes sense in missions that don't use kill points to split these fellas up and use them against different targets.  Not only does it spread opponents fire around, but it adds redundancy.

Offline KJQ

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Re: whats in your dev squad?
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2011, 10:23:34 AM »
Let me add that in this vehicle and cover rich 5th edition world, melta is "de rigueur" for SM.  So, I never think of Devs as my anti-armor unit but as primarily anti-infantry. Melta bearing tacticals, Sternguard, dreads, speeders, CC scouts in LSS etc. are much better at taking out armor, especially if in drop pods. In the case of transports, they can then also take on any infantry inside if it makes sense (i.e. winnable assaults).  That is why I don't tend to play LCs any more as MLs are fine for light armor and way cheaper.  I use PCs when facing MEQ armies, if I don't have PC equipped dreads.  The four ML's squad is the best bang for the buck.  If you really want it to live long and not be two kill points, then use a full 10-man squad.  You'll certainly bring the hurt to any unit you shoot with 4 MLs, and the squad should last most if not all of the game, firing each and every turn.

There are better value HS choices (TFC, dakka preds, Vindis), but none with the durability and 'sustained shooting' ability of the Dev squad.  Really depends upon the rest of your list which (HS choices) are best to use of course.

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Offline Koval, Master Verispex

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Re: whats in your dev squad?
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2011, 11:27:00 AM »
I too favour a quad-ML unit, for the simple reason that lascannons are over-expensive, I can get plasma cannons and heavy bolters somewhere else (combat-squadded Tactical squads with HB Razorbacks and a plasma cannon) and multi-melta range is utterly dreadful when the Devs can't fire on the move.

Missile launchers are just excellent bang for the buck as far as transport-popping goes, and since the guy I play most often fields Eldar, lascannons and Wave Serpents just wouldn't mix anyway, so a bit of reverse tailoring saved me a hundred points for my general list.

And those hundred points bought me five extra bodies and two plasma cannons for the Tactical squads, which is awesome.

So next time you see lascannon Devastators, ask yourself if those extra hundred points were well spent.

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Offline KJQ

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Re: whats in your dev squad?
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2011, 11:51:39 AM »
So next time you see lascannon Devastators, ask yourself if those extra hundred points were well spent.

I agree and I'd argue further that in the 5th edition world, lascannons are not worth the points cost in any unit, even tacticals. Anything a ML will not take out should be shot with melta, assaulted, or left alone entirely (e.g. monolith).
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Offline Luca Davo

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Re: whats in your dev squad?
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2011, 11:55:03 AM »
Devastators is probably the most frequently used unit in my lists and I almost always field two squads and sometimes even three if I skip the vindicator.

Since I often use Vulcan I tend to equip at least one squad with multi meltas (two or three) and then deploy them further up the board. Otherwise the missile launcher x 4 or plasma cannon x 3 (against marines) but also the missile launcher x 3 and one Lascannon in a 10 man strong squad which I combat squad with the sergeant and the LC in one.

Offline RezZzeD

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Re: whats in your dev squad?
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2011, 09:49:15 PM »
Since I play Salamanders, I just go all Multimelta, just because I can...

Offline Azash76

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Re: whats in your dev squad?
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2011, 04:26:51 AM »
I agree and I'd argue further that in the 5th edition world, lascannons are not worth the points cost in any unit, even tacticals. Anything a ML will not take out should be shot with melta, assaulted, or left alone entirely (e.g. monolith).

I agree somewhat. I think lascannons have there place (great for killing Paladins, termies, and light armor) but I have always found it cheaper, easier, and ultimately more effective to have armor mounted lascannons. I mean why spend the 310 on a devastator squad when you can just run 2 predators out there for 240 pts and actually have more fire power!

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Re: whats in your dev squad?
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2011, 06:37:09 AM »
I agree and I'd argue further that in the 5th edition world, lascannons are not worth the points cost in any unit, even tacticals. Anything a ML will not take out should be shot with melta, assaulted, or left alone entirely (e.g. monolith).

I agree somewhat. I think lascannons have there place (great for killing Paladins, termies, and light armor) but I have always found it cheaper, easier, and ultimately more effective to have armor mounted lascannons. I mean why spend the 310 on a devastator squad when you can just run 2 predators out there for 240 pts and actually have more fire power!
To be fair, that's two Heavy Support slots out of three, and you might want to use, I don't know, a pair of Vindicators.

Offline Azash76

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Re: whats in your dev squad?
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2011, 02:34:26 PM »
To be fair, that's two Heavy Support slots out of three, and you might want to use, I don't know, a pair of Vindicators.

True I was just illustrating the point that point for point armor mounted lascannons tend to be cheaper and more effective. Making there Devastator version a bit like a third toe in most lists.  I suppose a better example would be a standard land raider with the two TL LC's. While it has less in a dev squad at least one las will miss while the odds of not getting a hit on the two TL is pretty slim.

Offline Shas'La robo

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Re: whats in your dev squad?
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2011, 03:17:55 AM »
But, it is also easier to prevent a vehicle from firing, as almost any glancing/penetrating hit will stop the vehicle from shooting that turn or even the rest of the game.

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Re: whats in your dev squad?
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2011, 07:49:55 AM »
I usually go with a 2 missile launcher, 2 plasma cannon, chainsword on the sarge loadout.  This will rip the Dark Eldar to shreds even if left to a single 10 marine unit (i play vs DE quite often), and also works great for combat squad-ing vs other opponents as well.  Leave the Lascannons to the tactical squads though, WAY to expensive for a dev squad.
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