Topic: 8th ed synnergy's

[Fenris]

Simple,I'd like to know what synergies do you see possible in 8th ed for eldar.
I have some ideas myself, which I will present to start with:

- Doomseer + rending, with all vehicles having wounds, the shuriken weapons along with the snipers and the death spinners, the effect is greater than the sum of it's parts.

- Wave serpent dual cargo, having more than one unit embarked on a transport can get us some intresting combinations for cargo unloads. For example Dragons + Banshees, shoot enemy transport with Dragons, then assault it's passengers with the banshees, dragons can soak up the overwatch for the banshees, while the banshees can strip of that last wound on the transport with their pistols if needs be. It even has room for 2 characters.
Another way is to have a small unit of Stormguardians with powerswords and either flamers or fusion guns along with a unit of Reapers or some other aspect unit with an undermanned unit of stormies to make them fit.

- Guided Ynnari, since ynnari more often will suffer a penalty to hit, casting guide on them when hitting on a 4+ normally, is a bit more effective.

- Warlock & Rangers, Rangers have bonus to cover, and are already hard to hit, but a warlock could amplify that by making them impossible to hit for orks. The warlock also offers some protection if the rangers get assaulted.

- Asurmen & Baharroth, not only do they buff all aspect warriors, they buff eachother.

- Warshout & Drain, one of each must make them stack, not sure if several of one of these will stack though.

-Ynnari Warlock suicide bombers, just put a warlock in front of almost any unit, if the warlock dies, the unit behind gets a soulburst, if the warlock does not die it can buff the unit. Once reaching the enemy lines, the warlock could be lucky and get a perils of the warp, releasing warp creatures upon the enemy, meanwhile granting a nearby friendly unit a soulburst.

[Irisado]

A lot of the examples you're referring to here are actually force amplification, not synergy, especially those which buff units in any way.  While synergy is sometimes relevant to the discussion of Eldar, it's a broad brush term which can be applied to any army and is often misapplied, as is the case here.

The only example of genuine synergy here is the Wave Serpent one.  I wasn't aware that putting multiple units into one transport was legal (I shall check when the rules are actually released), but even if it is, I'm, not convinced that I like that plan.  Small Eldar melée units seem to brittle to me, no matter which other units they are going to be paired with.

[Partninja]

Irisado, you can infact put multiple units within the same transport. They have even stated so in one of their live videos (or was it an article?).

They had to, otherwise characters wouldn't be allowed in the transports.

I'm not sure how effective a small unit of Banshees or 8x storm guardians with 4 reapers are going to be in the scenarios listed above.

[Irisado]

I haven't watched any of the videos, so if it was mentioned there, that's why I hadn't realised.  Thanks for the clarification.  I can only see that being useful for characters though, so far as Eldar armies are concerned.  Mixing and matching small units of Aspects is not an option I can see working all that well.

[SeekingOne]

@Fenris

You've listed almost all the good combos that I noticed myself so far, and a few that I missed . To add a few bits from practical games:

1) Doom is very good indeed.

2) Multi-cargo WS is just brilliant. It's really a jewel among our trinkets - but, unlike weird 6th edition case, now WS has appropriately become what it always should've been: a fantastic transport. All uses that you listed are valid (except maybe the one with Stormies, but even that one might have some merit), and here are a couple more:

2.1) deploy 5 Reapers and 5-6 Dragons in one WS. If your enemy goes first, Reapers are protected. On your turn 1, Reapers disembark and are ready to fire, while WS with Dragons shoots off after the toughest available target.

2.2) instead of using one full-sized melee squad of 10 models, take two squads of 6 models and put them into one WS. This way you get more bodies and 2 Exarchs with special weapons, which is good. It might even be good to use 6 Banshees alongside 6 Scorpions, making a highly versatile assault team. One more possibility is to reduce one of the units to 5 models and take 1 foot Warlock to cast Enhance (or indeed Drain if accompanying Banshees). If passengers are also Ynnari, once Warlock falls in melee one of the units gets Soulburst.
Note that loading multiple small units into one WS also speeds up your deployment, increasing your chances to go first.
Also note that you don't need to soak up Overwatch with any infantry at all - WS itself can do it just fine

One more combo that I can add to the list is this:
Taking big firepower units might sometimes help to capitalise on psychic buffs, while using split fire to prevent any waste of shots. One obvious example would be to take one 10-strong squad of Reapers instead of two 5-strong ones. You put a Farseer with them to Fortune and Guide them, while in shooting phase they just split their fire 50/50 between 2 targets. One other example would be a 9-strong unit of Windriders.

[Partninja]

The best uses would be multiple small squads of the same aspect (for double Exarch weapons, and casualty management) or for deployment shenanigans. Since who finishes deploying first, gets a large advantage, I could see dragons and reapers (probably the best example) sharing a WS at the start.

[magenb]

One more combo that I can add to the list is this:
Taking big firepower units might sometimes help to capitalise on psychic buffs, while using split fire to prevent any waste of shots. One obvious example would be to take one 10-strong squad of Reapers instead of two 5-strong ones. You put a Farseer with them to Fortune and Guide them, while in shooting phase they just split their fire 50/50 between 2 targets. One other example would be a 9-strong unit of Windriders.

You can only split fire with different weapons, I don't know if the different missile types would count, since they are technically launched from the same gun. You could certainly have the Exarch fire an AML at something else.

While Doom/guide is all nice, the farseer is about the cost of 3 Dark reapers.

[Fenris]

@SeekingOne: Thank you for sharing your thoughts
I know the Reapers + Stormies may not have been one of the best uses, but Reapers are almost the only non character unit that can be taken as 4 or less models and still fit in a transport.

I think the stormguardians will see a lot more play in 8th ed though, not only a cheap troop unit. They can act as a poor mans banshees and/or fire dragons and instead of an exarch, they have ablative wounds.

Sticking a warlock (or 2) in a serpent is a great buff. An Autarch or a farseer is not bad either, but they don't need the protection of a transport as much.


Big units are strong especially with 1 unit buffs, however you could actually fit 4 units of 3x dark reapers in a single Wave serpent, could be quite powerful for Ynnari?, should one unit die, another gets to shoot again. This means both big and small units have their advantages.

@noone specific:

Mixing units with different purpose in a transport makes eldar more versatile, which is something most aspect warrior units lack. However a serpent with 7 stormies with 2x pw + 5 banshees could both be effective and somewhat fluffy (stormies=banshees in training) or the same for firedragons, even 7 stormies with 2x flamers + 5 Dragons with DBF-Exarch could double as a horde killer.

[Partninja]

Stormies are still min squad of 8. Might want to adjust your WS sharing numbers a bit.

Hilariously, since GW awful with their old kits, they increase in multiple of 8 up to a max of 24 now...

[SeekingOne]

You can only split fire with different weapons, I don't know if the different missile types would count, since they are technically launched from the same gun. You could certainly have the Exarch fire an AML at something else.

Why do you think so?! In the shooting phase sequence the rulebook states that you first pick target unit or units, and only then select weapons to shoot at it. Besides, there's a clear phrase:
"...if a unit contains more than one model, they can shoot at the same, or different targets as you choose."
Imho, it's pretty unambiguous.

While Doom/guide is all nice, the farseer is about the cost of 3 Dark reapers.

This is a very valid point. Statistically, it doesn't indeed make sense to use a Farseer to buff a small unit of 5 Reapers - but with a big squad of 10 a Farseer already becomes slightly more cost-effective than just taking 3 extra Reapers.

[Fenris]

Stormies are still min squad of 8. Might want to adjust your WS sharing numbers a bit.

Hilariously, since GW awful with their old kits, they increase in multiple of 8 up to a max of 24 now...

You are allowed undermanned units now, but you will have to pay the full cost for 8 stormies, while only fielding 7
Oh, wait that was probably a mission specific rule, from the one mission in the core rules.

[magenb]

Stormies are still min squad of 8. Might want to adjust your WS sharing numbers a bit.

Hilariously, since GW awful with their old kits, they increase in multiple of 8 up to a max of 24 now...

You are allowed undermanned units now, but you will have to pay the full cost for 8 stormies, while only fielding 7
Oh, wait that was probably a mission specific rule, from the one mission in the core rules.

I thought that applied to the Powerlevel style games.





Just started looking at Harlies...

First one hand your enemy some tissues

Move troupe with seer, Rising Crescendo, Twilight Pathways, charge....
6 model squad with caress.. T4, 4+sv is just gone.
7 models for 3+
9 for 2+... *Against Single W models.

Ok its over 500 points for 2 seers paired with 2 x 6 model squads kitted out.. but daaaammmmm... soooo wanna try it

[Partninja]

Stormies are still min squad of 8. Might want to adjust your WS sharing numbers a bit.

Hilariously, since GW awful with their old kits, they increase in multiple of 8 up to a max of 24 now...

You are allowed undermanned units now, but you will have to pay the full cost for 8 stormies, while only fielding 7
Oh, wait that was probably a mission specific rule, from the one mission in the core rules.

I thought that applied to the Powerlevel style games.

Negative. If you look at the match play points chart, it lists the min/max right next to the unit.

[Adrastos]

dragons can soak up the overwatch for the banshees,

Don't do this.
Charge with your transport and absorb the over-watch with that.

Then laugh next turn because you have fly and can just skip right out of combat and go back to shooting things while your units mop up.

[Fenris]

I just found out a nice thing to about Karandras and the Scorpions, that I didn't realize at first.
Shadow strike & sustained attack really works well together, and Karandras gives every scorpion model within range that exarch ability, which means +33% dmg output not +17%.
A warlock could bump this to +50%, add an autarch as well and it's +75%.

[SeekingOne]

There's one other neat unit combination - a simple one, probably very obvious, 100% fluffy and perhaps even intended However I realised it just yesterday, and it impressed me enough to deserve to be posted here.

A unit of Wraithblades with ghostswords + Spiritseer.
If the Spiritseer succeeds in casting Enhance and then charges in alongside Wraithblades, the combination of Enhance and Spirit Mark will effectively make Wraiths hit on 2+ with reroll. With 20 attacks on a charge from a unit of 5, the chances are they'll make mincemeat out of almost anything.

[Partninja]

Curious, what is the statistical comparison between 5x Wraithblades with swords (who make their charge) and 5x Wraithguard with D-scythes, who charge in with their fists? Both with or without a Spiritseer.

The Scythes would probably have the upper hand against vehicles but probably less consistent overall ?

[magenb]

Curious, what is the statistical comparison between 5x Wraithblades with swords (who make their charge) and 5x Wraithguard with D-scythes, who charge in with their fists? Both with or without a Spiritseer.

The Scythes would probably have the upper hand against vehicles but probably less consistent overall ?

well D-scythes will probably nuke half the squad and if the enemy is switched on, would remove the models from the front, so you might not make it into CC.

T4 with 3+
Wraithguard with D-scythes shooting is 8-9 Wounds
Wraithguard unit of 5 charging  will most likely do 1 Wound.
Re-roll give you ~30% chance of getting an extra Wound

Wraithblades of charge do 7-8 Wounds.
Re-roll gives you an extra 1-2, most likely 2 Wounds.

Damage multiplies have not been taken into account.

[SeekingOne]

One more really small one, but deserves to be mentioned here:
if you take Avatar of Khaine, you can just as well declare him your warlord and give him warlord trait for +1 attack on charge. Works pretty well on him.

And yet one more, that was brought to my attention just today. It's actually big, and though it's not strictly CWE, it deserves mentioning.
Wording of our best psy power - Doom - doesn't actually make any distinction of factions. I.e., all Aeldari units in your army will be rerolling wounds against a Doomed target, not just CWE ones. Combining DE poison with Doom can be quite devastating.

[TheEldarGuy]

If it wasn't for the fact that Stormies are about $1AUD per point, I think we'd see more of them on the battlefield.

As versatility goes, they hit the mark pretty close. Being Eldar means that we rarely have an all-rounder unit, but I think the Stormies are close.

For their Power/points, whilst they don't take the place of a Fire Dragon squad, they can be a Fire-Dragon-lite unit. And armed with Chain Swords they look this:

8 Storm Guardians w/ 2xFusion Guns  96pts    3PL
5 Fire Dragons, Exarch w/Firepike   125pts   6PL

And against horde units
8 Storm guardians, w/ 2xFlamers     80pts    3PL

And to top it all off, they are Troops. So with the savings of those points, could provide some decent upgrades for vehicles or additional weaponry for the Wraith Lord/Knight.

I feel that the Storm Guardian squad could be the unsung hero of an Eldar force, however at their current $$$ (AUD) value, they are almost unplayable for new players.