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Offline magenb

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #320 on: May 18, 2017, 05:05:46 PM »
err vehicles now get to charge, has there been any fine print around this? for example how the unit in an open topped thing is handled?

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #321 on: May 18, 2017, 05:09:45 PM »
In what manner? We've read that DE get to use their pistols out of an open topped transport for instance.
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Offline Fenris

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #322 on: May 18, 2017, 05:23:19 PM »
@GML: First off, stop misquoting me.
Every time I have quoted you, I have not changed a single word that you have written.  So every quote has been accurate to what you have written.
Just to grab one misquote:
On the more positive side though, T'au got a real boost in shooting, now they have 3 shooting phases...
I used a ":" then a Link, explaining it. not "..."

Quote
Secondly stop putting words in my mouth.
Where?
Right here:
Quote
You claim Tau have 3 shooting phases, which would imply that Tau have three phases in which they can shoot in the same turn.  I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you are referring to game turn, not player turn.
I never mentioned the same turn, I was referring to the article which I provided a link to in the same sentence. Would you like me to cut your sentences in half when I quote you?
You are building up strawmen arguments and then attacking me for something I didn't even say.


Quote
Thirdly you are the one moving the goalposts to try and punch holes in my conclusions.

You arbitrarily mix single and plural, when it suits you.
You actually think several terminators and a single MEQ model was the comparison I did, and not the other way around?
Ah yes, arbitrarily.  Or it's a typo, because everyone is perfect when writing on the internet.  Let's ignore every time I used the word "Terminator" and instead focus on the one time I used "Terminators."
No the focus was that you made an error in assuming it was a single MEQ model, and not an opponent playing a MEQ army. Then you started to attack my conclusion from the wrong point of view.

Quote
But let's address this whole moving of goalposts:

Your first statement was this:
On the more positive side though, T'au got a real boost in shooting, now they have 3 shooting phases...
You claim Tau have 3 shooting phases, which would imply that Tau have three phases in which they can shoot in the same turn.  I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you are referring to game turn, not player turn.

Your error is pointed out to not be the case what so ever in that there is no way that the Tau have three shooting phases in a (game) turn.
Yet again you attack the strawman, I never mentioned "Turn". I was referring to Frankie's article. I suggest you read it before you make any more assumptions.

Quote
Your flopping between a plural use for MEQ, and singular for GEQ, would imply that the plural is due to the fact that you are referring to to separate engagements.  At no point did you clearly state that you are going for an equal valued opponent.  When I point that out, then you bring out the idea that you clearly meant for the engagement to be a 3v1 fight.

What it all comes down to is, quite simply, this:
You stated that the Tau get 3 shooting phases, which is incorrect because they are able to shoot in three separate player turns.  You can throw math out all you want and change how things match up, but in the end you are wrong.
Again you make faulty assumptions building a strawman and attacking the semantics.
I do not know how you play your games, but I mostly play with equal points on both sides.
I agree with you that T'au do not get 3 shooting phases during the same player turn nor in the same game turn, I even spelled it out for you, that it takes 3 player turns.
But again if you read the article, you will understand that I am just adding a third phase to Frankie's two phases, which I also proved to you based on the firepower T'au can put out during these three phases.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 05:26:53 PM by Fenris »
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Offline magenb

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #323 on: May 18, 2017, 06:06:34 PM »
In what manner? We've read that DE get to use their pistols out of an open topped transport for instance.

Just finished watching the Q&A and there wasn't anything else in thee about it, so I suspect I'll have to wait and see now.

It will be interesting to see if a vehicle charges, if the unit can jump out and start swinging as well.

Offline angel of death 007

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #324 on: May 18, 2017, 06:18:14 PM »
liking the new vehicle rules.   Especially with being able to assault.   Finally a simplier way than the rediculousness of tank shock with was too much math and too lengthy.   

Another plus in my book.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #325 on: May 19, 2017, 10:22:48 AM »
Close Combat Weapons!

Most of this is as-expected. A couple interesting notes:

-Power Fists and how they're dealing with "Unwieldy" is very interesting. I like it.

-Chainswords *finally* have something going for them again!

-The Reaper Chainsword becomes the second weapon we've seen to just do flat damage rather than having to roll. I like this a good deal, as it gives bigger weapons a way to do more consistent damage rather than just pinging random wounds off things. 

Offline Irisado

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #326 on: May 19, 2017, 10:30:58 AM »
I love the change in the rules for Chainswords and Power Fists.  I think that we're going to see a lot more variation in close combat weapons selected for units in eighth edition.  These are excellent changes.
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Online Katamari Damacy

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #327 on: May 19, 2017, 10:37:06 AM »
I like the stuff overall but looking at it with an Eldar-bias I gotta wonder....

Banshees - 1 Attack at S3/Ap-3
Scorpions  - 2 Attacks at S3/Ap-0

That's pretty bad. I guess Scorpions will NEED those mortal wound Mandiblasters and Banshees will NEED their oldschool Bansheemask rules... I assume that pistols will no longer give an extra attack and instead be used, well, as described during the Pistols-Teaser we saw earlier. Then again, our Aspect Warriors might have some special versions of those weapons, but I doubt it.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 10:38:38 AM by Katamari Damacy »
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Offline Irisado

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #328 on: May 19, 2017, 11:03:23 AM »
It's too early to draw conclusions about how many attacks such assault specialists may have though.  Since characteristics will be data sheet based, you may find that they have more attacks than you believe, which would balance the problems that you're referring to.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #329 on: May 19, 2017, 11:05:18 AM »
It *does* seem as if a bonus attack for charging is not guaranteed (going off of how they describe Khorne daemons as getting a bonus attack "for charging"). If the overall number of attacks in combat goes down, I can see how combat would go a lot faster.

Of course, then combat won't be quite as decisive as it was.

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #330 on: May 19, 2017, 11:59:36 AM »
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Offline Irisado

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #331 on: May 19, 2017, 12:06:14 PM »
Players are going to have to roll rather a lot of dice for an Imperial Knight, given the number of random elements it has in relation to its attacks.  On the plus side, I do like the way that they function more as they would in Epic now, in that they are vulnerable to everything, but that small arms fire will have to be lucky to do any significant damage.
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Offline Lorizael

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #332 on: May 19, 2017, 12:16:24 PM »
I like the stuff overall but looking at it with an Eldar-bias I gotta wonder....

Banshees - 1 Attack at S3/Ap-3
Scorpions  - 2 Attacks at S3/Ap-0


That's all guess-work though. Scorpion chainswords are different to regular chainswords already, they may be still.
Banshees might be weilding something new; "banshee blades" ( :D ) that do something different.
And as Iri says, number of attacks could well be different.

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #333 on: May 19, 2017, 02:06:10 PM »
It looks to me like the LoW issue is being handled in a very interesting way. If I read that right, the only way there to take them is in a detachment of 3-5...

Being forced to take at least 3 means you will almost never see them in smaller games.

I like it.
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #334 on: May 19, 2017, 02:14:36 PM »
I wouldn't be so sure of that. That detachment card seems to be designed for people who do want groups of LoW wandering around murdering things. I'm certain other detachments would allow at least one LoW in a group of other lesser murdery things.
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Offline Captain Calamity

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #335 on: May 19, 2017, 02:29:42 PM »
I would imagine that there will be a heavy support centric FOC with LOW's in tow.  Like the basic one but substituting Troops with Heavy Support, and 1 LOW option for every 3 Heavy Support options.

Perfect for an IG tank company lead by a Baneblade for example.

Offline Fenris

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #336 on: May 19, 2017, 06:47:05 PM »
I think the power weapons are a bit underwhelming, but if they are cheap enough in points, they are fine and just as expected. Chainswords will definitely be the goto weapon most of the time.
Let's mathhammer a space marine with either chainsword or powersword against guardsmen:
Chainsword:
1,33 hits->0.89 wounds->0,59 kills.
Powersword:
0,67 hits->0,44 kills.
With a bonus attack for charging both gets 0.89 kills.

As for the knights they are no big surprise, more than that GW giving them a faction focus. The 5 models or less thingy is a bit odd, but I like the flinging of dead biggies.

As for the vehicles now able to assault, I think it will be great for Orks and Dark eldar. Not a big fan of Dark eldars new PFP though, it might become tedious.
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Offline Partninja

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #337 on: May 19, 2017, 08:36:37 PM »
It looks to me like the LoW issue is being handled in a very interesting way. If I read that right, the only way there to take them is in a detachment of 3-5...

Being forced to take at least 3 means you will almost never see them in smaller games.

I like it.

They responded to someone asking this question. They said there will still be ways to take a single Knight alongside your normal units.

Offline Dread

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #338 on: May 20, 2017, 12:05:26 AM »
Hmm, I own 5. Hmm! Well now finally something I really like about the new. I've liked a lot of the teasers better then I thought but this one sings songs to me.
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Offline magenb

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #339 on: May 20, 2017, 05:31:27 AM »
I like the stuff overall but looking at it with an Eldar-bias I gotta wonder....

Banshees - 1 Attack at S3/Ap-3
Scorpions  - 2 Attacks at S3/Ap-0

That's pretty bad. I guess Scorpions will NEED those mortal wound Mandiblasters and Banshees will NEED their oldschool Bansheemask rules... I assume that pistols will no longer give an extra attack and instead be used, well, as described during the Pistols-Teaser we saw earlier. Then again, our Aspect Warriors might have some special versions of those weapons, but I doubt it.

If pistols no longer give an additional CC attack, then I would imagine the stat line would be buffed. The Q&A session said that melee is going to dish out more damage than before. So a dedicated melee unit with only two s3 attacks would be pathetic.

Basically we are going to have to wait, but my best guess would be scorpion chain sword would be basically the same as is now. Banshee, we already know get to strike first and are faster, the question is what else do the get if the power weapon is nerfed yet again.


 


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