News: No news is good news...

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: Want to start chaos, not sure which direction to go  (Read 2372 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline wayniac

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Country: us
  • I *LOVE* 40k Online!
Want to start chaos, not sure which direction to go
« on: September 16, 2016, 09:10:50 AM »
I am an old hand, last played in 2nd and 3rd edition (Chaos then too) and only now returning to 7th.  I know I want to play Chaos again, because the army has always resonated with me, I'm just not sure which Chaos direction I want.  I've done some research (been following things for a while now as I dabbled in other games), but I'm still "Chaos Undecided" as it were :)

I've basically narrowed down my choices to either doing Khorne Daemonkin or a CSM-focused force likely using the new Traitor's Hate book, in which case I am unsure of choice of Legion (despite them not having rules anymore).  I plan to play casual/narrative so I'm not too concerned about competitive list building, since I want to focus on actual Chaos Marines not daemons and cultists.  I've tried to compile a list of pros/cons for each:

Khorne Daemonkin
PROS:
* Cool fluff, allows for literally fighting anyone else in the game including other Chaos or KDK armies
* Rules seem to gel really well together, better than normal CSM (That boon chart looks stupid as hell)
* Daemons can be used for other ventures too (I'm interested in AoS)
* Khorne is the "favorite" Chaos God
* Seems fairly powerful, even without doing the "Release the Hounds!" list focused around Gorepacks
CONS:
* Khorne theme can get a little bland
* Painting red can get annoying (although I'm fairly good at it)
* Seems like it's a one-off Codex so has me a little concerned about support in future editions

CSM w/Traitor's Hate
PROS:
* Traitor's Hate seems to add some viability to having CSM-focused armies
* "Core" army (power notwithstanding) so always will have a place in the game
CONS:
* CSM by itself, even with Traitor's Hate, still seems weak overall
* Fluff-wise, would have less reasons to fight like other Chaos armies
* Likely would be more expensive to buy overall (more vehicles and such)

I'm honestly leaning a bit towards KDK because they seem more fun and more focused than the hodgepodge of stuff that is regular Chaos, and also because as a fluff player the idea of an army that really embraces GW's pushing "warbands" on Chaos over Legions is appealing, but part of me wants to pick a traitor Legion (which would be one of Black Legion, Iron Warriors or Word Bearers since those are my favorites) and that would entail CSM itself.

Any suggestions for why you play what you do, and which of them is more fun/better to play with in the current state of the game?

Offline Wyddr

  • Author Eminence: Hereticus Liber Daemonica | Fio'shas Shi
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5254
  • Country: us
    • My blog about SF/F stuff
  • Armies: Daemons, Imperial Fists, Tau, Ksons, Vostroyans
Re: Want to start chaos, not sure which direction to go
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2016, 09:48:53 AM »
Welcome! I date back all the way to 2nd Edition myself (though I missed 3rd and picked up again in 4th).

Okay, so first off I'd say playing for fluff is probably the wisest course with CSMs, anyway. If you want to play to win, there's a lot better armies out there. CSM is a mid-shelf army any way you slice it. For beating face in a chaos-y fashion, check out daemons.

Anyway, I think you have the pros and cons mostly right. I can't say much about "future support" since we are very much moving back to a rogue trader/second edition style of "everybody's got their own datasheet" and who knows how long that will go on and which armies will or will not get the axe in the end. In defense of KDK, Chaos is always going to have a place for angry dudes in red, so I wouldn't worry about the models becoming obsolete, just maybe the precise army build won't work anymore.

KDK are a more powerful army than straight CSM, for certain. The Black Legion formations are really only so-so and anything chaos wants to do, the loyalists do better (except Daemon Princes, I guess, and arguably the psychic phase).

I do think that the daemon engines are by far the best part of the CSM or KDK codex, so any army emphasizing Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, Helldrakes, and even Defilers gets a thumbs up from me. Hellbrutes are pretty sweet now, too (now that the FAQ has doubled their attacks to be even with the Loyalists). That, however, is my own personal preference. Lots of people sing the praises of bikes (especially Nurgle bikers), and Chaos can do a pretty sweet MSU (Multiple Small Unit) army using the Chaos Warband formation and lots of small teams of CSMs in Rhinos.

Anyway, why don't you mock up a couple lists for us to take a look at. Always nice to have a new chaos player coming around. Welcome, and I look forward to your future posts!

Offline wayniac

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Country: us
  • I *LOVE* 40k Online!
Re: Want to start chaos, not sure which direction to go
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2016, 10:20:13 AM »
Yes, the Daemon Engines are some of my favorite models as well, and I definitely want to throw in a few of them regardless (that's part of what makes me skeptical about Iron Warriors as a legion, because while they use daemon engines, they seem a bit too "Monstrous" for their liking, so I envision them more with a lot of tanks, while for example Word Bearers would use more daemon engines because they are sacred vessels etc. etc.)

But ultimately I think Daemonkin just sound more fun.  I've been thinking for a bit, and it's like... every Chaos Warband type list I think of, regardless of legion, seems to feel similar and overall bland.  But the thoughts I have when I look at KDK is more that it can look good on the table (cultists, daemons and/or marines), plays well, and have a lot of what I like which is big daemonic monsters.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 11:30:35 AM by wayniac »

Offline Irisado

  • A Light in The Grim-Darkness ~ Guns Don't Kill People, Copyright Stats Do | Farseer | Reporting Live! from the Crime Scene | Somewhat behind the times
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11480
  • Country: gb
  • Soñando debajo del arco iris
  • Armies: Administrators must not play 40K
Re: Want to start chaos, not sure which direction to go
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2016, 12:30:05 PM »
Welcome to the forum :).

Like yourself and Wyddr, I've played since the Rogue Trader and second editions era as well.  While I didn't play Chaos back then, I've always felt that Chaos armies are among the best for narrative play, as there's so much scope for a wide range of scenarios, campaigns, and missions.

I'm not currently playing, so I can't really recommend one army type over another in terms of effectiveness on the table, however, I believe that's a secondary issue compared to how much your like the background, aesthetics, and play style of the army.  As a result, I'd recommend chossing whichever option appeals to you the most in terms of these criteria.

Edit: Thanks to endless interruptions, it took me over an hour to actually finish typing this message, so it seems you have made your decision now.  Khorne Daemonkin is certainly a lot of fun, and I am sure that you will find them enjoyable to play, especially if you like furious close combat engagements.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 12:32:49 PM by Irisado »
You haunt my in-box like an ex-girl friend could only dream of.

The Forum Rules - Please Read and Remember Them.

Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline wayniac

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Country: us
  • I *LOVE* 40k Online!
Re: Want to start chaos, not sure which direction to go
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2016, 12:39:53 PM »
I do, that always sounds fun.  Mostly though it's the fact I am finding it really hard to "get into" regular CSM without falling into the trap of pure min-maxing.  KDK I have less of that problem, it seems the things I like also work well and the army is more cohesive without every attempt feeling like I'm just screwing myself by not taking something better instead.

Like, I was giving thought to an Iron Warriors style CSM force using TH, and it always turned out with like minimal squads, maxing out on good stuff, which while it works I dislike that approach to gaming.  I feel I have more opportunities to have a fluffy but effective army with KDK that I lack with the regular force at this time.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 02:06:14 PM by wayniac »

Offline Lord of Winter and War

  • The Cause of Diabetes -Captain- Necrontyr Immortal - KoN Veteran - Master of All Diplomacy | Wi-Fi Nomad |
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8901
  • Country: ca
  • Armies: Harlequins, Spiderfang, Bonereapers, Space Wolves
Re: Want to start chaos, not sure which direction to go
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2016, 02:37:26 PM »
I recently have been playing KDK after playing Codex:Chaos space marines. One thing I like about playing Khorne Daemonkin, is that Loosing models is less discouraging then playing straight chaos. Sure, I may loose a bunch of units from enemy shooting, but now I can summon a BloodThirster. Makes you almost excited to watch your units get killed lol.

I brought them to a Tournaments last month, and even though I lost all my games I was engaged the whole time. Each game I was able to summon the Bloodthirster through tithes, which was fun in it's self and made loosing a bit easier ha ha.

I also don't play them competitively. I run a bunch of chaos marine units in Rhinos, with a Helbrute and terminators lol.
Harlequin Army Blog

That's not blatant, this is blatant: I'm super happy that I'm playing Austria, the greatest nation in all of Diplomacy!

Azore of Austria

Offline wayniac

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Country: us
  • I *LOVE* 40k Online!
Re: Want to start chaos, not sure which direction to go
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2016, 07:56:54 AM »
So funny thing happened.  I actually sat down and figured okay hey I'll try to paint a model with the color scheme I want for KDK, because the thought finally occurred to me that I kinda need to enjoy painting the army I choose (whoda thunk it right?).  At the same time I figured what the hell, I have a spare Chaos Marine sitting around, I'll paint him up as an Iron Warrior for comparison.

So I did.  I painted one marine with boltgun in the Iron Warriors colors, and one marine with bolt pistol and CCW in the color scheme I came up with for my KDK (dark reddish-brown armor the color of drying blood, black metal helmet).

Pic (the red looks much lighter here because of the camera flash):



Actually here's a better picture of the red on the KDK Marine, for a better comparison:



Honestly... not only do I think the Iron Warrior looks better, but was a hell of a lot more enjoyable to paint.  The KDK model was annoying as hell; sure I know that they don't have to be red, but the color scheme I wanted was a dark red like drying blood and black helmets, so I feel like I'd be forced to change it just because I'd get sick of painting it.

Now given how much ADD I seem to have, I'm sure this decision won't last more than a week :P but actually trying to paint one and seeing how frustratingly annoying it is  is a big thing too beyond just fluff and playability, because I'm not going to want to bother to paint an army.


« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 08:02:35 AM by wayniac »

Offline Irisado

  • A Light in The Grim-Darkness ~ Guns Don't Kill People, Copyright Stats Do | Farseer | Reporting Live! from the Crime Scene | Somewhat behind the times
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11480
  • Country: gb
  • Soñando debajo del arco iris
  • Armies: Administrators must not play 40K
Re: Want to start chaos, not sure which direction to go
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2016, 08:13:34 AM »
I've never finished painting a single army in twenty-six years of being involved in the hobby because I'm lousy painter and I don't find it enjoyable.  However, dark grey/black colours are, in my opinion, easier to paint for a whole variety of reasons, so if you are looking for a colour scheme that will be relatively quick to paint and can be made to look of a better standard with less effort, darker colours, such as those employed by Iron Warriors, would be the way to go.

I'm personally not a fan of the background of either Black Legion or Iron Warriors, which is why I didn't go down that path, but if you are, I think that you may well have answered your own question through experience :).
You haunt my in-box like an ex-girl friend could only dream of.

The Forum Rules - Please Read and Remember Them.

Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Brash

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 264
  • Country: ca
    • Titan Games
  • Armies: Chaos Space Marines
Re: Want to start chaos, not sure which direction to go
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2016, 12:14:48 PM »
I have been playing chaos for 15 years and my army is a massive combination of different warbands. I originally started with a nurgle force which expanded into an emperors children themed army which has now moved into word bearers and night lords. Since I have had so long to collect a chaos force when I field my army it looks amazing with the different warbands and allows me to add pretty much whatever I want to the force since it is essentially is an alliance of all things chaos. I am working an a Night Lords daemon prince which I will add some fluff making him the leader of the warband but I feel like a lot of the time people get to focused on one solid theme. Chaos is so much better then codex astartes because of the variety. So I say start painting and modifying the force for what you want now and as you move down the road maybe you will be drawn to something else in the chaos range and add that in.
Ave Dominus Nox

 


Powered by EzPortal