Topic: Change "40K" to "The Space Marine game"

[Eldanesh]

Well after perusing the NewWave event coverage of the Chicago Grand Tournament I think we can begin to see a pattern developing in at least Tournament Play. At the risk of fanning the flames of GW controversy again, I must post a few interesting observations I've made by studying the army selection of this years participants.

http://www.newwave.org/gw/eventscoverage/gtchicago050402/index.html

Have a look for yourselves but here's what I came up with:

Of the 32 participants in the 40K GT -

23 were Marine or Chaos Players
Of the 23 Marine/Chaos armies 6 were Space Wolf players

1 was an Eldar Warhost

1 was a Tyranid Swarm

2 Were Sisters of Battle forces

2 Were Tau armies

2 Were Ork hordes

I thought that perhaps these stats were maybe a little skewed and it was a coincidence that so many Marine players would enter a GT until I looked at the make up of a few past GT's that NewWave covered (links on the side there). Granted, they don't include all of the entries for any particular GT in their coverage, but if taken as an impromptu poll of statistics of the Marine/Chaos to any other army available you'll see a very unbalanced trend toward Marine armies being played overall. Keep in mind these aren't newcomers to the game, most of the participants are veteran players who commit a lot of time, energy and a significant amount of money to participate in the GTs. So the arguement that Marines are the first choice of "newbies" by default doesn't fly here.

So my question is, why do you think this is? It certainly flys in the face of what "Dirty Steve" continually asserts in WD, saying Eldar and other armies are evenly represented at GTs, dont you think? Or is it because GW has chronically favored Marine/Chaos forces since 3rd edition in both models and rules?

Should the just get it over with a call "Warhammer 40K" - "Space Marines 40K"?

[Sephiroth]

Its true that SM are too popular. Though eldar win a suspiciously high amount of tourneys despite the low number of them.
Marines are usually the first choice for newbies but will also have more vets than anyone else (number, not percentage).
I would like to see guard pushed more, they are actually humans we can identify with rather than fanatics on steroids.
Though this could all change will the necrons

[DeamonMonkey]

Your right....Thats really sad....Especialy since marine armys are so BORING to look at  

[Scars]

uhhh your wrong there. i doubt that there would only be 32 entries in a GT! yes there are alot of space marine armies. so what. people would whine if there were lots of eldar armies or ork armies.

[Pixel]

Yes IG should be pushed.  Especially talking fluff-wise.  It's supposed to be about a million IG men to one SM right?  Not the other way around.  Also i would happily like to say I'm DE and proud of it

[spacepiper]

Hey man, you gotta love that Adeptus Mechanius Army, that thing is so totally sweet!  

[Cormer Lir]

Well, in the 2000 Baltimore GT, the breakdown was as such:

Marines (universal category with all chapters):  38
Orks:  6
IG:  17
Chaos:  16
Eldar:  16
Tyranids:  6
SoB:  4
Necrons:  7
Dark Eldar:  5

[GoblinKing]

uhhh your wrong there. i doubt that there would only be 32 entries in a GT! yes there are alot of space marine armies. so what. people would whine if there were lots of eldar armies or ork armies.

Yes, we would whine (at least I would), but the idea here is that its completely unbalanced. Or at lest its odd that everyone, not everyone but many people, would choose to play Marines. At least I find it odd, there are so many armies yet so many people chose Marines. Maybe I should start playing them.

[Young-King]

LOL Man this cracks me up!! Most of those players are most liely avid gamers and probably have quite a few armies, but like the marines the best because Marines are awesome, you can make them look cool, look cool already, have good rules, lotsa units. I don't see why you are whining so much! What are you trying to prove? That there are a lot of Marine players out there and that nobody likes your poor Eldar? I don't complain because more people like the New York Yankees, or the Colorado Avalanche. Beybe more people just like marines! Maybe those guys like their fluff, style, tactics and models! Are you gunna cry about it? Really, grow up man!

YK.

[Lanorel]

Don't you see? If there are a lot of Marine players, (and it is), that most likely means that they are somehow better (and they often are, depends on the player etc), and that would mean that the game isn't properly balanced...

Not to mention fluffwise.  

[Archon d'Veillo]

Since this game does involve rolling the dice consider this, if you are the only non-marine player you can tailor you DE army to focus only on what marines do and take a chance with a lopsided army.  After you annihilate them, they will want to convert but it will be too late as you will already have their tortured souls.
muaahahahahhahahha

[Cormer Lir]

Sadly enough, tailoring your army to kill Marines (rather valid when one considers that the single biggest army block is composed of Marines, or at least of 3+ save T4 models {53% in 2000 GT}) will get you both a poor sportsmanship score from many of your Marine opponents, and typically a bad comp score.

[Eldanesh]

YOUNG KING: My point (as always) is that GW neglects not just Eldar but practically all other armies in prefference to Marines. The numbers don't lie, look at the amount of special rules, fluff and models produced exclusively for Marine armies since the release of 3rd in 1998 and compare it to any other army. I'm not talking Codexes, they're gonna produce those anyway, I'm talking WD articles, special suppliments (Marine fluff book).

Marines armies are unbalanced, tournament players know this and consequently play a higher percentage on a regular basis.

[elbroth]

sm are definitely the gw most favored product. but its not just gw marine players never seem content they are all ways looking for more rules more models and genraly the ability to destroy every thing. never content never............    

[Russianbeer]

SM being the Favorite of GW? BS!
Sm make the game unblalanced! BS!

Why are marines so popular?
There is sever reasons.
-Two armies come with the box set, and marines are the "good" guys so many peple chose them.
-Their tactics are sound and simple to learn.
-They are very reliable and can preform diff tasks.
-Most people who start with the box-set End up with a SM army thats why there is so many there.

To prove another point: MOST peple dont KNOW how to play SM. Thats why ELDAR are usualy vicotrious in Tournaments.
I dont say the eldar are cheese, they are just well balanced thats all!

BTW: SM models have a plain yet very cool look to em. They are Elite!

[farseer_tiresias]

as i spent all weekend walking around the GT answering everyones rules question  i also notcied alot of SM armies but i also took the time to tlak to the people playing the armies....finding out way they picked there army. Most of the answers i Got from the marine players varied from Sapce marines are the cheapest army money wise to play (face it, no one else has as many plastic box sets) Marine armies are the easiest to play with (a SM army spends the game moving forward then shooting then h2h) to even that space marine armies are the easiest to pain well. (when it comes down to it all that power armour is soooooo easy to make look good)
well thats my 2 cents on why so many people had marines at the GT

[Eldanesh]

There's 2 basic reasons people use Marines/Chaos:

T4  &  SV 3+

I guarantee we'll start seeing Necrons used in greater numbers at GTs for exactly the same reason. High T and high SV will always be a buffer against tactical errors. Combine this with the fact that Space Wolves get countercharges and Blood Angels get their special rules and Black Templars get rite of this or that and tactics get thrown to the wind.

It's called "Codex Creep"

[Young-King]

I totally agree with you there Eldanesh! I questioned that awhile ago! "Why is there no fluff in the rulebook on other armies?" "Why are there only really marine supplements?" There should be more stuff going for other armies ect., but look at it this way:
Eldar DO HAVE the most selection! You have 19 units to choose from not counting HQ!! Marines do have maore units, but most of them are variations of one thing,  like a LS or their tanks! The one reason I wanna play Eldar is because you have so mush to choose from!

YK.

[Morrinath]

SM really shouldn't even be a proper army in their own right. I mean, if the fluff is to be believed they'd only really send out about two or three squads at a time as rapid shock troops to reinforce guard armies. Even the equivalent of just 1000 points of marines would be a huge chapter campaign, remember, in total there are only about 1000000 marines in the galaxy. In inter-galactic terms that's tiny, that's not even enough to fill up a small city. SM just don't use that many troops at once and if they did its almost always as IG reinforcements. And yet for some reason the most common army is a full SM army. The fact that GW are treating marines like this is direct contrast to the fluff they have written is annoying to say the least.

[TheMightyPikachu]

well, with the amount of popcorn guardians biting the dust all the time, eldar would have gone extinct looooooooooooooong ago