Topic: The UK's EU Referendum

[Wyddr]

If you do, then just put Irisado on your hit list and blame him for everything.  Problem solved.  One day you will be able to afford the services of Boba Fett to hunt him down and... wait, what do you mean Boba Fett isn't real? 

[PaxImperator]

Well this is a first. An internet debate that results in one of the participants changing his mind based on the other party's arguments. Congratulations are in order, both to Irisado for his patience and to Captain Calamity for allowing reason to prevail.

On a more serious note, I hope the British have the good sense to remain in the EU. I think both the EU and the UK will be better off with the UK as an EU member state. I'm not convinced the referendum will be a resounding BREmain though. We'll find out soon enough..

[Irisado]

I've just got back from voting to remain in the EU.  It was significantly busier at my local polling station than is usually the case, and the person in charge of counting numbers did confirm to me that turnout was quite good thus far.  This may be an indicator than turnout is high across the country which ought to benefit the Remain side.

[The GrimSqueaker]

Indeed, the people I usually follow have mentioned they're making a effort to get themselves but also family members and neighbours to the polls. This one is seen as important for all generations.

I'll just leave this one here:


Edit: Well, beslubber. Those that voted it, now own it.

[Calamity]

I'm...shocked. 

[Looshkin]

Well. That happened.

For what it's worth, I voted to remain.

Although I admitted to being torn over which way to vote, at no point did the Leave campaign truly quash all of my worries about what a leave vote would do to the UK. I had hoped that this would become a serious debate about the economic and political repercussions of saying/leaving.

Instead, it turned into a several month long muck slinging argument almost solely about immigration.

Personally, I think that migration is a very good thing - please note that I called it migration. It's the movement of people both in and out of the country, bolstering work forces in many different countries and allowing a freedom to decide where you live and work and where you want to be part of a community.

I think that we have woken up to a weaker country and a weaker Europe.

I'd just like to thank the likes of Irisado and GrimSqueaker for having the time and patience to help inform and educate those of us seeking a little more clarity (And Iri, I didn't reply to your reply because I was snowed under at work...I apologise for not showing appreciation until now). Also, thank you to Captain Calamity for making this a vibrant debate...whilst not resorting to the vitriol and hate that I've encountered on other social media. People like Iri, GS and CC make internet communities a worthwhile place to be.

So then. Stiff upper lip. Best foot forward and let's make this amphetamine parrot storm work!

[Irisado]

I ask for you all to bear with me while reading this post.  I've had two hours sleep, and so my ability to write coherently is going to be under strain today.

Looshkin, you're right to call it migration, because that's what it ought to have been called.  It was ruthlessly hijacked by the leave campaign, especially Farage, in the most pernicious and xenophobic way imaginable, and it is this fear, instilled in the working class disaffected Labour vote in particular which has tipped the balance against Remain.  Thank you for your kind words .

Farage has shown even more of his true colours this morning with his assertion that 'real and decent people voted to leave'.  In other words, he is stating that I, and everyone else who voted to remain in the EU, is not a real of decent person.  This is a truly reprehensible and divisive statement, which will serve to widen the divide between the public, not to heal it.

The most astonishing aspect of the discussion this morning is all this talk from members of the public and Conservative politicians about how shocked they are that Cameron has resigned.  I'm amazed by their naivety.  Cameron was always going to resign immediately if remain lost.  He had staked his career on winning.

I take one small crumb of comfort, in that my own region (North East Hertfordshire) bucked the trend for Conservative held areas by voting to remain, but that's not much consolation.  I did put a lot of effort into educating people locally about the EU, so perhaps it made a bit of a difference, but I don't know.

For me personally, this is the worst thing that has happened in my life time.  I have never felt as bad as I do today about anything.  Yes, the sun still rose this morning and the country is still functioning, but the sense of loss is extremely hard for me to bear.

I feel it that it comes down this.  This result is a victory for fear, ignorance, and prejudice.  It is the most depressing, distressing, and upsetting thing that has ever happened to me, and I think that this country is going to find itself in a very perilous position for a very long time.  The EU is weaker as of today and the lights of peace of prosperity that have united us with continental Europe for so long have just been snuffed out.

[Wyddr]

To those of us not in Britain, I'd like to add this to Irisado'so thoughtful response:

If you want to buy ForgeWorld, now is the time.

[TagniK'ZuR]

To those of us not in Britain, I'd like to add this to Irisado'so thoughtful response:

If you want to buy ForgeWorld, now is the time.

Would if I could, but for reasons I don't understand, our Economy (South Africa) is tanking with the UK's because of this 

[Wyddr]

Would if I could, but for reasons I don't understand, our Economy (South Africa) is tanking with the UK's because of this 

I'm guessing here, but that's probably due to the pivotal trade relationship South Africa has with the UK.

Bummer, man.

[Irisado]

South Africa's commonwealth status is playing a role there.  The Commonwealth wanted the UK to stay in the EU for all sorts of reasons not least trade, so this is not the outcome that the financial markets in countries like South Africa were looking for.

[The GrimSqueaker]

So it begins.

Asked by ITV's Good Morning Britain whether he could guarantee that the £350m that was sent to the EU would now go the NHS, Mr Farage said: “No I can’t, I would never have made that claim.

"That was one of the mistakes made by the Leave campaign.”

Not like they accidentally put the idea on the side of a great big red bus or anything.

[Calamity]

I'm still wrapping my head around this.  I honestly don't know how to feel about it.

If it's any consolation though Irisado, you did manage to persuade me to vote remain. 

As much as I hated the EU I suddenly realised the Pandora's box I'd be opening if we left, and I backed down.

And thank you too for your kind words Looshkin.  I try to be polite.  I was worried I was damaging my reputation around here the way I was going on. 

[Irisado]

So it begins.

Asked by ITV's Good Morning Britain whether he could guarantee that the £350m that was sent to the EU would now go the NHS, Mr Farage said: “No I can’t, I would never have made that claim.

"That was one of the mistakes made by the Leave campaign.”

Not like they accidentally put the idea on the side of a great big red bus or anything.

Yes, Farage is now trying to claim that because he was not a member of the official Vote Leave campaign, he doesn't have to subscribe to their promises and that their promises were wrong.  He is a nasty and manipulative liar.

If it's any consolation though Irisado, you did manage to persuade me to vote remain. 

That's good to know .  Northern Ireland also voted in favour of remain as a whole, which was something at least.

[Calamity]

You made better arguments than I did that's for sure.  And it seems that the rest of N.I agreed too.   

It's a shame about our low turn out though.  I hate to see that.  Especially here in this situation when you're vote is equal to anyone else's and therefore really does matter.

I hope the UK doesn't fall apart.  Despite coming from a catholic nationalist family I like the UK.  I feel more kinship with Scousers and Brummies than I do with Dubliners. 

[Wyddr]

I heard a rumor that, because of low turnout, something can be brought up in Parliament to have the vote *again?*

Did I hear that right?

[Irisado]

Yes, because turnout was below 75% and the vote for leave was less than 60%, it is possible, but it would be difficult.  There is a petition doing the rounds to try to force the government to implement this, which I'm trying to sign, but it keeps crashing due to high traffic.

You can read more about this here: Brexit: Petition for second EU referendum so popular the government site's

[Calamity]

Best of three? 

Seriously though, maybe a second go wouldn't be the worst idea.  Perhaps now people will drag their asses to the booth to vote, and the EU might change tac too.

[Wyddr]

It also seems (from the press) that a lot of people didn't fully realize what would happen and what they were voting for.

Some Brits don't even know what the EU *is*!

[Irisado]

The BBC has just been conducting an interview with people in Hartlepool.  For those of you who do not know, Hartepool is a very run down old town in the old manufacturing area of North East England.  A working class Labour stronghold.  70% voted for Brexit, going against the Labour position, and here are some of the comments from the people who were interviewed:

'I voted leave because of all them immigrants in the schools and in the NHS'

'I voted leave to get the immigrants out'

'I voted leave and I don't know why' (I'm not kidding here).

'I voted leave because I don't like Cameron'

'I voted leave [insert numerous expletives'.

That's the kind of level of education and intelligence on offer in some of these places.

It's also worth pointing out that the North East England receives EU funding, which it will now lose.  This vote isn't going to improve their lives at all.