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Author Topic: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors  (Read 114720 times)

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Offline Gwaihir

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Re: POC: Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors -
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2008, 07:16:13 PM »
AAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHH H.  I typed out a long post and deleted it on accident.  Moc, I made some diagrams to help explain things a bit.  I'll add those and comment later.  I have to get the kids ready for bed now, so it'll have to wait.


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Offline moc065

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Re: POC: Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors -
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2008, 07:18:41 PM »
Wow you must be close to my Time zone, as I just got my 3 youngest off to bed... at 8pm.. Go do the Dad stuff, as its certainly more important than this stuff.

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Offline Gwaihir

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Re: POC: Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors -
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2008, 08:44:37 PM »
Sounds like you are an hour ahead of me.  I shoot for and just got them all in bad at a little after 8:00 my time.

So 40k then.

Quote
Wow, sounds like a seriously good game. I am not surprised at the speed and punch of the Orks though, as I have found that Eldar need to kill them before they charge... almost in every instance

I think the guard can handle the charge though they will be cripled by it.  If it sets your army up for a more advantageous position, it can be worth it.  I think in this game, things were set up for me to win if I had done things right on the 4th turn.  One ork squad had advanced beyond the rest and could have been used to catapult most of my force away from the core of his force.  I could have taken on one squad at a time, the the two squads I was set to work on had been taking fire the first three rounds so were already getting smaller.

In the following diagrams the orks are green (even though my opponents orks are purple) and the Eldar are yellow.  W=walker.  L=wraithlord.  WG=wraithguard.  SS=shining spears.  V=vyper.  The boxes represent unit footprints and don't have anything to do with the actual size of squads.  The rightmost ork squad was a bunch of shoota boys.  The diagram isn't to scale so distances may be a bit off, it is close enough to convey the idea though.  I left out units which weren't too important to the immediate picture.  There was a wraithlord to the right with 2 bikes further right but neither are pictured.

After the ork charges on turn 3 the board looked something like this.



I then moved my harlies and spear in to attack the orks in the center.  The orks run and the spears are stranded.  The harlies are out of immediate assault danger, but risk ranged attacks.  The walker headed left to tie up the flyers and eventually blew up killing many orks in multiple squads.  So the board looked something like this.



I think that my charge move should have been something like:



The harlies would have killed most of the orks, I would have won the combat, the orks would have run.  Even if the orks didn't run, the harlies could have hit and run out toward the right and gotten in position to charge either of the ork squads.  The lord and bikes on the right could have been used to keep the harlies from getting shot by the shootas if necessary.

Meanwhile the spears and guard likely would have finished the orks they were working on and been able to consolidate right and forward.

In the ork turn the guard squad in the center would be fininshed off if that cc was still going leaving the boss and few remaining orks exposed to shooting which had a good chance of finishing them.  Or the boss and boys would have been running.  Either way my position would have been good.  The harlies and spears could have charged if necessary though they more likely would have been moving right getting away from the boss.

The walker died in that ork turn killing off the flyers but leaving them far from the action.  My subsequent moving phase would have allowed me to move everything except possibly the wraithlord out of their charge range probably engaging one or both the ork squads on the right.  They were separated enough to be unable to provide support to each other so I could take down one at a time.  Both had also been taking steady casualties the whole game from the lord and bikes so they weren't full strength mobs that would be hard to kill.  In fact the squad nearer the center was actually charged by the harlies and remnants of the wraithguard squad and forced to run under half strength and unable to regroup.  The lord and/or vyper could be left behind to keep them further from the bulk of my force moving right.  By this time also they were down to 5 or 6 models so a good volley should have been able to destroy them.  I think if I had played it right things would have looked something like this going into turn 5.



As I say above both the squads on the right were very killable as were the flying orks.  The orks on foot farthest from the action were probably beyond my ability to handle.  I think at this points I could keep one guard squad at full strength, one alive though badly mauled, the harlies alive (and their bonus VPs not going to the opponent), both farseers, one lord, one vyper and the bikes.  He would have the immobile battle wagon, looted vehicle, grots, boss, mech, trukk, full boys squad and maybe the flyers though under half strength, though I may well have been able to cut killed one or two of those things.  I think I would have had around 1400 points left to his 900 or so and also kept my hunted squad alive while killing his.

A loss is often worth more than a win though as there can be more to learn from, so I am actually fairly pleased with the game.

Quote
Better luck on your next game, and I would love to hear how a re-match goes, as I think you could take his list.

Yeah, I definately think the forces are fairly evenly matched and that the outcome is most dependant on how well the players play.  I really have to play my best game though as he is an exceptional player.  Even small mistakes can multiply creating big problems.

One example is the mistake with the bikes that cost me the shuriken cannon.  I could have made pop up attacks for four turns taking no return fire.  Shootas were steadily advancing on that side and by the time they entered the terrain piece covering the bikes, the bikes could have turboboosted past them to hide in cover near the looted vehicle then jumped out and shot at it once or twice with good odds of destroying it.  I messed up, lost the cannon and lost the stronger potential for success.

If I had played things better the bikes would have been boosting forward about the time my forces were engaging the shootas so the bikes would have had nothing threatening them as they advanced.  Also the vehicle lurched forward and would have been an easy target at that point as it would no longe be behing the partial cover it had.

Small mistakes can get big.


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Offline moc065

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Re: POC: Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors -
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2008, 09:00:39 PM »
Excelletn diagrams as they really helped me visualize things out... I seriously think that the SS move is what lost you the game, as you noted... their assault was a complete failure as they were killed too early. There are other options as well as what you posted; but terrain, etc are all factors... I know that personnaly, I avoid Ork CC as I don't use a lot of dedicated CC units.... I am actualy amazed at how many Wraithguard you lost... as I have seen them be a lot tougher, although when I shoot them, I tend to get all the right dice, so maybe your opponent had some luck as well as skill on his side.

PS... When exactly doen Withdraw take place... Before combat Resolution... So even if all the figures are dead, some would argue that you could still use the Withdraw feature... Just a thought, as I too run it the way you did; but soem argue for the other camp.

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Offline Gwaihir

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Re: POC: Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors -
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2008, 09:24:20 PM »
Quote
I am actualy amazed at how many Wraithguard you lost...

I think he did a bit better than the averages would suggest.  I had lost a couple to shooting.  In one round the blast killed 3 or 4 as I did really bad with the cover saves.  Then I lost 3 or 4 more on the charge and the last in the next round all due to the claws.  Still I emerged from that cc with both seers unscathed.

The other guard squad held up fine when snickrot charged, but eventually were assaulted by the flyers and the other squad which had the Big Mech along.  There were enough claws and whatnot to kill them in 3 or 4 rounds of cc.  The spirit seer survived and the attached farseer only had one save to make, to live but failed it and the reroll. :-\  The game was lost at that point anyway though.

Quote
I know that personnaly, I avoid Ork CC as I don't use a lot of dedicated CC units....

My list just didn't have the volume of fire or templateyness to kill enough to avoid cc.  The guard as holders while spears and harlies hop in and out should have worked; I just didn't do it right.  The spears and harlies were quite capable of sweeping their kill zones on the initial charge and if I had managed to work on one squad at a time, I would have been able to suffer little damage on return attacks.

After the waaagh the orks should have lost enough initiative for me to capitalize on the position.

One thing I was thinking about though is that even though they are 400 points a pop, it was pretty much necessary to sacrifice the front guard squad just to set up a more advantageous postion.  Makes me have a lot less empathy (not that I ever had much) for those griping about harlies hopping out of the falcon and killing a 150-200 point squad.  Play it right and the sacrifice of that squad can be worth it.


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Offline Starrakatt

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Re: POC: Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors -
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2008, 11:15:56 PM »
   Good batreps here Gwaihir.

   Seems to me you had terrible luck with the reserve rolls in the game against Tyranids, makes me remember the last time I put my Spider in Deepstrike, only to get then come in only at the last turn, nevertheless the Autarch. :-\
   Good job at having pulled a win though, a both you and your opponent seems to have been into a kind of deadlock with all his MCs and your WG waiting for each other.

   That game against Orks was quite amazing I must say, even though you didn't get a Win. The multiple Klaws are what horrify me most with the new Orks, I just can't figure how not to take horrible (and expensive) casualties against these, as well shown in the batrep.
   The Spears: Like you said, little mistakes may grow out of proportions when facing a good opponent.
   You said that the Autarch cleared his Kill Zone and the remnant of the Spears ended up with no targets to kill, does a more spread charge would have changed the end result if your Aspects had earned some more kills?
   Also, that horrible Difficult Terrain roll for the Wraithlord didn't help your cause for sure. :D

   Thanks to have shared these with us.

   Oh, and by the way, to echo
moc065 I'll say I also quite like the diagrams you make up for your batreps. Out of curiosity, how much time does it take you to do these?

   Starky
« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 11:18:28 PM by Starrakatt, the Amok Nemesis »

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Offline Gwaihir

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Re: POC: Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors -
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2008, 08:01:34 AM »
The ones I just put up here were pretty quick.  I probably took about five minutes to do the first, the rest are faster as I just have to move the blocks around.

The diagrams I usually draw take much longer because of all the little circles and squares.  I have a background grid I made a while ago that keeps it in scale so that speeds things up a bit.

I am sure there are much better programs to use, but I use powerpoint to make the diagrams.


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Offline moc065

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Re: POC: Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors -
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2008, 09:53:51 AM »
In regarde to Diagrams, I actually use Paint, and most of mine only take 5-10 minutes.... as I build templates (copy & paste) etc.

You should consider it Starky.. its helps you out later when you re-read things as a Prep for tournies etc.

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Offline Starrakatt

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Re: POC: Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors -
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2008, 05:32:32 PM »
   I'll probably try m hand on it as soon as I have some time to relax. The house is taking it's toll in stamina, I always feel tired these time around.
   I should be fine and in shape trough June though, then I should be able to come out with some full batreps that are taking dust somewhere...

   Starky

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Offline moc065

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Re: POC: Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors -
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2008, 01:44:35 PM »

Here is a Template or two to get you started with Copy and Paste...




Sorry about the Colours; but I made them for me, not the Iyanden.

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Offline cabie22 (Thread-Jacker)

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Re: POC: Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors -
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2008, 03:11:12 PM »
those are some pretty sweet templates, now what would i have to do to use them, get them into paint and then do some careful scissors cutting and what not? 

diagrams would make battle reports so much easier to explain, meaning i would probably actually post some reports in the future. (i type slowly so the less typing the better)
I wish i had some wraithbone

Offline moc065

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Re: POC: Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors -
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2008, 03:15:15 PM »
Save pic as.
Open in Paint,
Copy and Paste as required,

Some cleanup around the edges may be required to hedge out any smudges due to jpg-bmp conversion; but that would probably only take you a few minutes (the first time, as after that you can save them as bmp's and never have to clean them up again)..

Hope that helps.

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Offline Starrakatt

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Re: POC: Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors -
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2008, 09:51:07 AM »
   Thanks moc for the pics, I'll surely try these at some time in the future (With the right colors of course).

   As a side note: For all PoC members, join
Gutstikk Summer Online Campaign if you can, the Eldar need every participant possible if we want to gain supremacy in the soon to be ongoing conflict.

   Don't forget: Eldar Rule, now let's prove it!

   Starky

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Offline Gwaihir

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Re: POC: Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors -
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2008, 07:42:49 AM »
I found this fan video which has some wraithguard and lords blasting apart some marines.


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Offline Starrakatt

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Re: POC: Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors -
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2008, 09:37:15 AM »
   HA! Take that you SMurfies!

   Thanks Gwaihir for the video, it certainly belongs here. ;) (Now added to the Great Library, Fluff Section)

   Starky

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Offline Gwaihir

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Re: POC: Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors -
« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2008, 09:38:09 AM »
I thought you might like it.


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Offline Two Hawks

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Re: POC: Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors -
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2008, 11:18:53 AM »
That vid was awesome :D!! Here everyone else think ELDAR are inferior..
Take that you other races!!
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Offline moc065

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Re: POC: Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors -
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2008, 09:17:33 PM »
I found this fan video which has some wraithguard and lords blasting apart some marines.

Thank you Gwaihir, now were do I mail the check as that was certainly worth the price of admission.

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Offline Two Hawks

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Re: POC: Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors -
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2008, 05:50:05 PM »
I was wondering what's the easiest way to get a 10 man wraithguard unit across the board? Considering we don't use a lot of terrain, too bad they don't all fit in a serpent. Is there a unit that's best to put in front of them to take the heat off of them? Sorry if it's been asked before I don't get to sit a the computeer all day to search. Thanks in advance and any ideas is appreciated.
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Offline f.desrochers

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Re: POC: Iyanden - The Ghost Warriors -
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2008, 07:38:33 AM »
Quote
I was wondering what's the easiest way to get a 10 man wraithguard unit across the board? Considering we don't use a lot of terrain, too bad they don't all fit in a serpent.

Well, really the only way across is to slug it forward.  That said, you mention you don;t use a lot of terrain.  Is this by choice?  Because typically with 25% of the board-worth of terrain to deploy, you should have no problems slipping a dfew larger pieces directly into the middle of the field, giving you a clear avenue of approach.  It also conveniently provides you with a target piece of cover to move for, allowing a 4+ cover save once within, creating a 12" bubble around which very few Elite infantry units and vehicles will likely wander.

As for the Serpent arguement, well you hit on one of the most contentious changes in the new Eldar Codex.  Prior to this, two units of 5 Wraithguard in a Wave Serpent and an equal number of Wraithlords counted as Troops.  There was no measure of glee to the number of games I played and won without even disembarking my Wraithguard.  Conversely, when we lost the option, I found myself playing my mon-keigh armies for some time.....  A unit of 5 in Wave Serpent does make for an effective Elite choice, though you may find those points better spent elsewhere - depending on the size of the army list.

;francois
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